Better Words Michelle Gately & Caitlin Toohey

Welcome to The Re-Read: bonus episodes where we chat with previous Better Words guests and catch up on what's happened since they joined us on the pod.

Bri Lee is a writer, journalist and activist. Her debut book Eggshell Skull was a multi-award winner. She followed this with Beauty and Who Gets to Be Smart. She is working on a PhD in law at the University of Sydney where she also lectures in media law. The Work is her first novel.
Listen to our previous chat with Bri here.
You can follow Bri @bri.e.lee on Instagram and check out News & Reviews.
*There's a little bit of background noise in this episode, sorry! Unfortunately, it's a hazard for us all recording remotely from home.
In this interview, we chat about:
Why Bri feels more comfortable and excited about discussing The Work, in comparison to her previous non-fiction novelsWhy polarisation is a crucial part of any art (and why it means aggregating star reviews on platforms like Goodreads doesn't really work)Bri's writing process for this dual-perspective story The various selves needed to craft and then promote your workWhy Bri views fiction and non-fiction as a spectrum rather than a binaryPrivilege, hard work and our obsession with the next young 'it' writersThe work Bri does in creating News & Reviews
Books and other things mentioned:
Good Material by Dolly AldertonCool Story with Bri and Bridie Sally Rooney
The Work is available in Australia now.
Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Liam Pieper is an author and ABIA-winning ghostwriter. The first was a memoir, The Feel-Good Hit of the Year, shortlisted for the National Biography Award and the Ned Kelly Best True Crime award. His second was the Penguin Special Mistakes Were Made, a collection of funny true stories. He was co-recipient of the 2014 M Literary Award, winner of the 2015 Geoff Dean Short Story Prize, the inaugural creative resident of the UNESCO City of Literature of Prague, and the 2018 National Library of Australia Creative Arts Fellow for Australian Writing. His novels are The Toymaker, Sweetness and Light and Appreciation, which is the book we're chatting about today.
Our interview begins at  22.00
We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!
Mini book club: Grown Ups and My Favourite Mistake by Marian Keyes
Well, there's been a huge gap in our reading: we've not read much/any Marian Keyes. So we thought we'd tackle some recent releases. Caitlin discusses Grown Ups (the only MK Michelle has read) while Michelle chats about the brand new My Favourite Mistake. Our overall verdict: Marian Keyes undoubtedly has it, the knack for writing genuinely funny, compelling and yet emotional novels. And we can't wait to read more!
In this interview, we chat about:
Art as a commodity and the way this is explored in the bookThe ideas and events in Liam's own life that culminated in AppreciationTurning a critical eye on the publishing industry as part of Ollie's redemption arcInside the world of a ghostwriterHow Liam became a ghostwriter and his publishing journey
Books and other things mentioned:
Everyone In My Family Has Killed Someone by Benjamin StevensonYellowface by Rebecca KuangKeanu and co: how celebrities became bestselling novelists'Zoella and the ghostwriter' on Shameless Book Club PodcastSpare by Prince HarryGoosebumps booksSophie Hannah's Poiroit novels
Follow @liampieperwrites on Instagram
Appreciation is available in Australia now.
Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Brydie Lee-Kennedy is an Australian TV writer. She has written on shows for Netflix, Apple TV and Disney. In a former life, she was a cabaret performer, kid's party entertainer and sex columnist. Today, we're discussing her debut novel Go Lightly.
Our interview begins at  26.00
We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!
Bit of a different intro this week. Caitlin has had a huge week at work and what she's been reading is still secret. But Michelle has been on an exciting trip to Berlin. So, we decided to discuss some of the content related to that trip. Here's what she shared:
Berlin Game by Len DeightonAlone in Berlin by Hans FalladaIn Search of Berlin by John KampfnerMarzahn, Mon Amour by Katja OskampThe Berliners by Emma HardingStasiland by Anna FunderTurning Point: The Bomb and the Cold War (Netflix documentary)'Nudism in East Germany' by We Are History podcast
In this interview, we chat about:
Why we don't see much of the Aussie in the UK experience in books or on TVWhat it's like being a TV writer in Australia and the US The different versions of ourselves we present in relationshipsWriting about digital life and the effects it has on Ada's relationships in the bookWhy Brydie would never want to adapt her own book for the screen
Books and other things mentioned:
The Rest is Entertainment (podcast)
Follow @brydieleekennedy on Instagram
Go Lightly is available in Australia and the UK now. Thank you to the publishers for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.
Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Welcome to The Re-Read: bonus episodes where we chat with previous Better Words guests and catch up on what's happened since they joined us on the pod.

Dr Jodi McAlister is a romance author and romance scholar. Her latest novel is Not Here To Make Friends.
Listen to our previous chat with Jodi here.
You can follow @jodimcalister on Instagram
In this interview, we chat about:
The complex reality TV world Jodi created across her rom-com trilogy, including exploring the series 'villains' in the final bookWriting the third book in dual perspective and why this took Jodi by surprise (and why it was 'harder than all six of my previous books combined')Could Love Island inspire another series in the future?How Jodi planned the series, including plotting a season of a fictional dating showJodi's next romance series and upcoming academic projects
Not Here to Make Friends is available now in Australia, along with Jodi's other books.
Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Emma Darragh spends most of her time on Gadigal and Dharawal Lands. She holds a PhD in Creative Writing from the University of Wollongong, where she works as a sessional academic. Her writing has appeared in numerous Australian publications, including Cordite, Westerly, Meniscus, TEXT, and The Big Issue Fiction Edition. Emma’s debut novel-in-stories, Thanks for Having Me, is published by JOAN.
Our interview begins at  25:00
We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!
Mini book club: Prima Facie by Suzie Miller
Tessa has built a prestigious career as a barrister, a world away from her working-class roots. But when she is raped on a date with a colleague, she must reckon with everything she's believed about the law and justice. This is a stunning, thought-provoking and emotional novel.
Michelle received a copy for review from the publisher in the UK.
In this interview, we chat about:
The story cycle format of Thanks for Having MeHow the character of Vivienne inspired the novelHow you structure a novel that's intentionally meant to be read out of order and the way Emma approached the writing processEmma's journey to publication
Books and other things mentioned:
The Work by Bri LeeRBG (play by Suzi Miller)Eggshell Skull by Bri LeeOlive Kitteridge by Elizabeth StroutA Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer EganDubliners by James JoyceAlice Munro (author)Rubik by Elizabeth TanThe Flight of Birds by Joshua Lobb
Follow @emmaldarragh on Instagram.
Thanks for Having Me is available in Australia now. Thank you to the publisher for providing copies in preparation for the interview.
Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Lottie Hazell is a contemporary literary scholar, board game designer and writer in Warwickshire. She holds a PhD in Creative Writing and her research considers food-writing in 21st Century fiction. Today, we’re discussing her debut novel Piglet.
Our interview begins at  16:00
We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!
Caitlin recommends: So Fetch: The Making of Mean Girls by Jennifer Keishin Armstrong*
A fascinating look behind the scenes of the iconic movie with so many interesting tidbits from those involved.
Michelle recommends: The Whalebone Theatre by Julia Quinn
A beautiful family saga following three children growing up in a crumbling English manor house by the sea, spanning from 1919 to the end of World War Two.
In this interview, we chat about:
Family, aspiration and why perception is so vital to PigletThe 'contract' between the author and the reader and why Lottie wanted to play with that in revealing aspects of Piglet's storyFood, desire and the connection with familyLottie's academic focus on food-centred fiction and how this led to writing PigletLottie's venture into boardgame designing with her partner
Books and other things mentioned:
Sex and the City and Us by Jennifer Keishin ArmstrongSimple Comforts by Mary BerryRamsey in Ten by Gordon RamseyThe Roasting Tin series by Rukmini IyerThe Farm Tabel by Julius RobertsLeague of Lexicon (game)
Follow Lottie on Instagram @LDHazell
Piglet is available in the UK, US and Australia now! Thank you to the publisher for providing us with copies in preparation for the interview.
Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod