#13 Now They're Killing Babies Better Off Dead

Assisted dying has no more committed opponent than the Catholic Church. They have thrown resources, and the full weight of their political influence, against it wherever it has been proposed.

That’s why the words of Sydney’s Archbishop Anthony Fisher – one of Australia’s most senior Catholic clerics, and a man who commands the ear of many politicians – are worth listening to.



Archbishop Anthony Fisher, debating ethicist Peter Singer at Sydney Town Hall, 13 August 2015 — Source: YouTube





Listen closely, and what you’ll hear is a masterclass in FUD: Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. The same seeds sown by opponents of assisted dying to great effect down the years.

What lies inside those little seeds of FUD? In this episode – for the first time – we’re going to find out.


'I think it's almost unheard of that the elderly feel more as a burden and the opposite is true. They feel empowered by this, it strengthens them.'

Joeri Veen, spokesperson for ANBO – a peak body representing the Dutch elderly – discussing the impact of euthanasia laws on ANBO’s members


Please note: this podcast is not about suicide. If you are interested in increasing your understanding of suicide and how to support someone experiencing suicidal ideation, visit the Conversations Matter or beyondblue websites.If you (or someone you know) require immediate assistance, contact one of the following 24/7 crisis support services: Lifeline (13 11 14), Suicide Call Back Service (1300 659 467), MensLine (1300 78 99 78), beyondblue (1300 22 4636), Kids Helpline (1800 55 1800) or eheadspace (1800 650 890).





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Better Off Dead: interview with Tom Keneally











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Tom Keneally is one of Australia’s best-loved and most successful authors – and a former Catholic seminarian. Here, he discusses the belief of some Catholics that pain can purify, and that suffering redeems the soul.

Know more

Video: 'Q&A: Facing Death' – Australian Broadcasting Corporation, 9 November 2015
Article: 'FactCheck Q&A: Were 550 babies killed last year under Dutch euthanasia laws?', by Colleen Cartwright (reviewed by Lorana Bartels and Jan F. Koper) – The Conversation, 16 November 2015
Opinion: 'Assisted dying: Sorting the facts from the half-truths and the misleading statements', by Ross Fitzgerald – Age, 15 December 2015
Video: 'Lord Carey on Assisted Dying – July 2014' – Christina Summers, 19 August 2015
Website: Christians Supporting Choice for Voluntary Euthanasia

Video: 'Euthanasia debate: Professor Peter Singer versus Archbishop Anthony Fisher OP' – Sydney University Catholic Society, 13 August 2015

In this episode

Anthony Fisher
Nancy Elliott
Catherine Glenn Foster
Nick Cooling
Alex Schadenberg
John Fleming
Henk Reitsema
Kevin Yuill
Joan Hume
Illya Soffer
Pierre Gyselinck
Bob Joondeph
Joeri Veen
Mie Moerenhout
Cheryll Brounstein
Eduard Verhagen

Our theme music was composed by Zig Zag Lane for Zapruder's Other Films, and edited by Jon Tjhia. Music used in this episode includes 'Untitled #8 (Popplagith)' (Sigur Rós), 'Hold Me Through' (Luke Howard), 'I Might be Wrong' (Radiohead) and 'Forty-Eight Angels' (Paul Kelly).

Your stories
If you're suffering, or someone you love has died badly – in a hospital, in palliative care, in a nursing home, or at home – add your voice and tell your story here.

Further information
Better Off Dead is produced by Thought Fox and the Wheeler Centre.

Executive producers Andrew Denton and Michael Williams. Producer and researcher Bronwen Reid. For Better Off Dead, the Wheeler Centre team includes Director Michael Williams, Head of Programming Emily Sexton, Head of Marketing and Communications Emily Harms, Projects Producer Amita Kirpalani and Digital Manager Jon Tjhia. Editing, sound design and mix on this episode is by Martin Peralta. Additional editing by Bec Fary and Jon Tjhia.

Thank you
Thanks to field producer Emily Sext