This podcast reveals the insider secrets of advertising copy that makes money.
Insights into the highly profitable world of direct response marketing.
Hosted by the World's Greatest Copywriting Coach, David Garfinkel.
Copywriting for Life, with Rabbi Evan Moffic
If today’s guest looks familiar to you, that might be because you’ve previously seen Rabbi Evan Moffic on Fox News or CNN, where he is frequently called in for commentary and analysis on events in the news.
But here’s something you probably didn’t know: Rabbi Moffic is also a copywriter! He’s a former mentoring client of mine. I’m proud of the work we did together and where he’s taken it, and I’ve gotta tell you: He has found uses for what he learned in copywriting in places I’ve never heard of copywriting being useful, or even thought of before!
Evan is the senior rabbi at Makom Solel Lakeside, a 600-family synagogue in the Chicago suburbs. A Stanford graduate, he’s also an popular speaker at churches, where his goal is to bring the value of Jewish learnings to as many people as possible. Evan has written several books, including ‘What Every Christian Needs to Know About the Jewishness of Jesus’ and ‘What Every Christian Needs to Know About Passover.’ His latest book is about anti-semitism.
But today, Evan has agreed to talk about the role of copywriting inside and outside of business and religion. I really enjoy the way he looks at copywriting, and I know you will, too.
Evan started by telling us how new things he learned about copywriting helped him write the most effective fundraising letter ever for his congregation! But for him, copywriting has had a much more wide-ranging impact. It has, in fact, changed his overall approach to persuasion, and even modified his perspective on human nature as a whole.
Part of his work as a rabbi is to counsel members of his congregation, when they request it. And, as mentioned before, Evan speaks all over the country to Christians about The Old Testament and other Jewish topics. He’s a welcome speaker at these events — he only goes where he’s invited! — but there are opportunities to use to tools of copywriting to help make his concepts easier to understand and accept.
As a writer, Evan has used copywriting not only in emails — as you would expect — but also in his books. And, as the father of two very bright daughters, he’s found copywriting comes in handy in family conversations.
This is an unusual podcast today in that I can’t remember anyone on the show who has taken such a universal approach to copywriting — or, at least, talked with us about it.
You can find out more about Evan on his substack:
Lightning Fast First Draft, with Kevin Rogers
Let’s welcome back for his third time on Copywriters Podcast, Kevin Rogers. No matter what we do, we can’t seem to scare him away.
No, actually, we’re really grateful to have him back. Kevin has been on before to talk about humor, and we greatly appreciated that.
But today he’s here to talk about something different -- ten rapid-fire steps to get a first draft of your sales paper down on paper or screen.
Besides being a successful and experienced stand-up comedian, Kevin is an A-List copywriter and author of “The 60-Second Sales Hook.”
He’s also the founder of Copy Chief, a powerful online community for copywriters.
But let’s get to his 10-step speed process.
Now Kevin wants to be clear: “If you’re out to beat a control, this isn’t the process for you. When you’re writing a magalog to beat another magalog, there’s a much longer process of review, with the team, and things like that.
Instead, he says, “This is for a copywriter who knows the product very well. Whether it’s your product or a client’s product.
“In that case, you know the audience very well, all the benefits very well, the features pretty well — but, you have this pressure to come up with a new ad.
“It’s called the 4x6 copywriting formula. It’s the 10 essential parts of a sales pitch. Four of them, if they are not present -- the buyer’s brain will not let them proceed.”
Kevin says this process lets you write first draft in about 60 minutes. It’s especially useful if you have to write a new ad for a product you’ve already written sales copy for.
A couple resources to get more from Kevin:
- his podcast: http://copychief.com/ccr
What You Didn’t Know About Charging Higher Prices, with John Williamson
I’m going to tell you three words that can help you charge higher prices than you’re charging now — even higher prices than your competitors.
Those words are “emotional risk displacement.”
To be honest, I have NO idea of what they mean… but… our guest today does.
He’s back! I’m talking about our returning champion, John Williamson. Today, he’s going to talk about Unique Selling Propositions and charging higher prices. And, if we’re lucky, he’ll tell us what “emotional risk displacement” means — since those three words CAN put more money in our respective pockets.
John is coming to us from an undisclosed location on the side of a mountain in Scotland. Over the last 30 years, he has generated millions of dollars in sales for himself and his clients with his own special brand of unique selling propositions.
He says, “A great Unique Selling Proposition will enable you to steal the attention and win the sales.
“Including ‘financial risk reversal’ in your USP will win you even more sales.
“But, you can take the process of USP development even further by embedding ‘emotional risk displacement’ in your USP … AND win all of those extra sales at HIGHER PRICES.”
On today’s show, we talk about how it’s possible to charge higher prices than your competitors … and STILL get the business.
• Why increasing prices is paradoxically the first thing you should figure out how to do if you want to increase sales.
• Why most people could care less about a money-back guarantee … and what they would prefer you gave them instead.
• How to determine the optimum price you should charge to maximize both revenue and profit.
• Why even rich people like a bargain and how you can give them what they really want without lowering prices by even a dime.
• How to completely eliminate discount requests and have people pay full price with a big fat smile on their faces.
• Why you should tell people what your ‘pricing philosophy’ is upfront, before you tell them anything about your product or service.
• Why you should NEVER rely on your accountant or CPA to tell you what you should be charging.
John’s Facebook Group is “Attention Bandits.”:
How to Lock-In Your Customer’s Attention, with John Williamson
By popular demand, we’re back with the always surprising John Williamson today. He’s going to talk about a serious problem every business faces, and some ready-made solutions to this problem.
John is coming to us from an undisclosed location on the side of a mountain in Scotland. Over the last 30 years he has generated millions of dollars in sales for himself and his clients with his own special brand of unique selling propositions.
The problem, of course, is getting and keeping the attention of customers. In a way that leads to sales, and repeat sales after that.
John says, “Right at the heart of your attention getting should be your brand.”
A lot of us direct marketers don’t pay a whole lot of attention to branding these days, but John argues that we should. All the time.
But not just any kind of brand. One that pulls its weight in getting attention and adding new customers.
How do you do that, and how to you make it pay off if you don’t have a huge budget to establish this brand in the way a big corporation will try to do?
• Why ‘branding bravery’ is the only way to win the war for attention.
• How any business – no matter how boring the industry is - can be decommoditized through branding.
• Why trying to come up with a brand name you love is almost impossible (and if you do love your brand name it’s … probably … not … very … (gulp!) … good.
• How to make your brand stick in someone’s mind like it’s been tattooed on their brain from their very first exposure to your business.
• How to use a linguistic shortcuts to get you people to resonate with your brand by relating it to a story they already have in their head.
• How to give your brand ‘conversational currency’ (… so that - incredibly - other businesses prefer to promote your business over their own business!).
• The specific 5 words people will say to you over and over again, that will let you know your branding is working.
John’s Facebook Group is “Attention Bandits.” :
The 5 Lightbulbs of Copy, with Billy Broas
People start out writing copy all kinds of different ways. But how many times have you heard, “It all started with beer?”
I’m not talking about drinking a beer. I’m talking about brewing your own beer! That’s how our guest today, Billy Broas, got started in online marketing: He launched a website for his fellow home beer brewers. That was in 2010.
His online course sales from the site got to the point where Billy was able to leave his job and become an entrepreneur. He hired me as a copywriting mentor in 2015, and his since gone on to do great things helping people launch online courses. Especially the new wave of instruction called cohort-based courses.
Now, course creators are very often not copywriters, which makes sense. But Billy is, and, as a teacher, he needed to find ways to get some important copywriting concepts across to them quickly and meaningfully. On today’s show, we talked about what I consider a brilliant construct to do just that, called The 5 Lightbulbs, today.
Billy told us how he came up with The 5 Lightbulbs construct, and what it is.
As it turns out, it worked just as well back in the day — like 100 years ago — as it does today. In other words, it’s kind of universal. Bill walked us through Old Master Max Sackheim’s famous ad, written in 1919, with the well-known headline “Do You Make These Mistakes In English?”, to show how it follows the 5 Lightbulbs formula to a tee.
But in 2022, it’s a very flexible formula, for copywriters and non-copywriters alike.
Billy told us about:
- How non-copywriters use it to organize a sales letter
- How marketers use it to sequence emails in a sales campaign
- How teams use it as a common language, or a shorthand
Bill also offered Copywriters Podcast listeners a free 5 Lightbulbs worksheet, to audit any marketing message, available at
Kevin Rogers: Humor In The Era Of 'Woke'
Just like Tom Hanks knows how to make movies, Kevin Rogers knows how to navigate comedy. Really. He spent years as a professional stand-up comedian, sharing the stage with other great comics like Chris Rock, Billy Gardell, and many others.
You may be more familiar with Kevin as a superstar copywriter and copywriting educator, which is how he spends most of his working time now. He has created Copy Chief, a community-based forum and training center for copywriters. This was after he had reached the top echelon of pro copywriters himself.
Kevin’s also the Amazon best-selling author of The 60-Second Sales Hook, where he shows how to use a proven joke formula to create a powerful marketing hook.
Kevin has many, many more credits to his name.
But as you can see by now, Kevin is the perfect person to come on the show to talk about an increasingly high-wire act for copywriters, and really anyone in business who has a sense of humor: What you can get away with, and what should you avoid at all costs, when it comes to using jokes in the era of ‘woke.’
Kevin has gotten back to doing standup on a limited basis, and as for the copy he writes, he says he doesn’t use a lot of humor there to begin with.
Comedy, therefore, is still very much a part of his life — just not part of his copy.
When Kevin coaches or does presentations, though, his funny side continues to shine through.
However, he’s aware of what’s going on throughout the copywriting world, and in today’s show he talks about specific examples of, as he puts it, “people who I think are using humor wisely” in their own copy.
If there’s anyone who can guide you and your jokes through the land-mine-strewn fields of cultural correctness that we all have to navigate these days, it’s Kevin. You’ll really appreciate his perspective and spot-on suggestion on how to keep your sense of humor without losing out to the woke crowd.
A couple resources to get more from Kevin:
- his podcast: http://copychief.com/ccr
I love this
I am addicted to this podcast. The content is gold.
Brilliant content, copywriting *gold*
YAY, YAY, YAY! This podcast is my fave listening treat these days... and I make myself earn the carrot of a listen after a good days writing is done. It’s a total treat and super freaking relevant. Can’t believe the value David and Nathan, THANK YOU!
Treat Garfinkel's podcast like a paid-course.
I have the honor of owning one a retro-edition of John Carlton's Simple Writing System (with the binder and the DVDs).
Watching David Garfinkel, Carlton and David Deustch brought back memories of the 'Killer Bunny' from Monty Python...
SWS was my first experience of 'copy critiques' - and seeing rookie writers get their headlines ripped off and leads torn to shreds triggered my the same reaction in me that Monty Python's knights had when coming up against the 'killer bunny': 'run away, run away!'
Since then, I've been inspired to sharpen my chops and have listened to every Garfinkel interview I can get my hands on.
The first 3 episodes have been super helpful for someone like me (just getting started in a career in marketing and copywriting).
I'm grateful that an A-lister like this is giving away his secrets for free on a podcast. Excited to hear a fresh podcast from one of the best in the biz.
Once I can hustle the skills and the dollar-bills, David will be top of my list to beg for teaching and mentoring.
~ Dan C.