16 episodes

From Rules to Reality is a podcast that highlights how regulation shapes, or fails to shape, our daily lives. Regulation is what can make our roads work, our buildings safe, and our environment clean. But it’s also what fails when discrimination, human rights breaches and poor standards of care occur. Learning from experts about where regulation is working, and where we can improve, is my focus in this podcast.

Rules to Reality: how regulation shapes, or fails to shape, our daily lives Simon Katterl

    • Government
    • 5.0 • 7 Ratings

From Rules to Reality is a podcast that highlights how regulation shapes, or fails to shape, our daily lives. Regulation is what can make our roads work, our buildings safe, and our environment clean. But it’s also what fails when discrimination, human rights breaches and poor standards of care occur. Learning from experts about where regulation is working, and where we can improve, is my focus in this podcast.

    #15 Australia's failure to prevent torture - with Steven Caruana

    #15 Australia's failure to prevent torture - with Steven Caruana

    Today I speak with Steven Caruana. Steven is Coordinator of the Australia OPCAT Network, a coalition of over 200 non-government organisations, academics, statutory officer holders and interested individuals concerned with the effective implementation of oversight to Australian places of detention. He is also a Specialist Advisor to the Australian Human Rights Commission and is involved in monitoring designated mental health units as an Official Visitor. Beyond this, Steven’s previous experience is enormous, having worked at the Disability Royal Commission, the Commonwealth Ombudsman, Aged Care Quality and Safety Commission and the Department of Immigration and Border Protection. Much of Steven’s work today stems from a Churchill Fellowship granted in 2017, in which he reported on how other countries monitor places of detention, and what we can learn in Australia.
    Today we discussed OPCAT. The Optional Protocol to the Convention against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. So yeah, OPCAT for short hay. It’s an international agreement outlining how our Australian governments need to monitor places of detention. It’s really important, and today is a historic day. Today, we were meant to have implemented OPCAT fully, but it’s a patchwork across Australia, and in states like NSW and Victoria, we’ve barely started. This matters. Abuse in disability settings, Aboriginal deaths and abuse in custody, the many human rights violations I’ve seen in mental health services – they all continue because our governments aren’t monitoring places of detention. Be sure to listen in on this episode and remind Parliamentarians why this matters.
    Shownotes:
    An article from the Australian Human Rights Commission on our failure to implement OPCAT: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2022-01-20/djokovic-australia-immigration-detention-hotel-scrutiny-opcat/100767220?utm_source=abc_news_web&utm_medium=content_shared&utm_campaign=abc_news_web 
    Article from Steven and Professor Penelope Weller: https://www.rmit.edu.au/news/acumen/opcat
    Article from Steven on OPCAT in prisons: https://www.croakey.org/looking-in-on-the-inside-why-opcat-is-needed-for-australian-prisons-detention-centres/
    How Tasmania leads the rest of Australia: https://www.abc.net.au/radio/northtas/programs/drive/opcat-implementation-tasmania/13720332 

    • 40 min
    #14 There's no such thing as a free lunch in pharmaceutical advertising - with Dr Lisa Parker

    #14 There's no such thing as a free lunch in pharmaceutical advertising - with Dr Lisa Parker

    Today I am interviewing Dr Lisa Parker, an Honorary Lecturer in the School of Pharmacy, at the University of Sydney. Her research focus is on public health ethics and policy, particularly the influence of values, evidence and industry on health care policy and practice including digital health technologies. Dr Parker also has her feet close to the ground, currently working as a medical clinician in oncology.
    We discussed the concerning role that pharmaceutical companies can play in influencing decisions within hospital settings as well as within consumer or patient groups. Dr Parker’s words are considered and thoughtful, leaving me in no doubt about the need to tighten regulation in this space.
    Timestamps:

    Why does regulation matter to you and your community (1:45)
    How pharmaceutical companies can influence health consumer groups (5:00)
    How pharmaceutical companies can influence drug and therapeutic committees within health services or at a state level (18:30)
    The minimal guidance for drug and therapeutic committees on integrity and decision-making, and the lack of transparency and oversight (27:00)
    One thing you can go away and do today (41:00)

    Show notes:
    Two research papers from Lisa Parker and colleagues:
    Parker, L., Bennett, A., Mintzes, B., Grundy, Q., Fabbri, A., Karanges, E. A., & Bero, L. (2021). “There are ways… drug companies will get into DTC decisions”: How Australian drug and therapeutics committees address pharmaceutical industry influence. British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology, 87(5), 2341-2353.
    Parker, L., Grundy, Q., Fabbri, A., Mintzes, B., & Bero, L. (2021). ‘Lines in the sand’: an Australian qualitative study of patient group practices to promote independence from pharmaceutical industry funders. BMJ open, 11(2), e045140.
    Resources:
    Principles to guide consumer health groups: https://chf.org.au/sites/default/files/docs/ah20206.pdf 
    A guide for health consumer groups on funding and transparency:https://www.hcnsw.org.au/trust-and-transparency/

    • 30 min
    #13 The road to digital surveillance is paved with good intentions – with Prof Kate Henne

    #13 The road to digital surveillance is paved with good intentions – with Prof Kate Henne

     
     
    Today I speak with Professor Kate Henne. Kate is the director of RegNet, which is the school of Regulation and Global Governance at ANU. She also leads the Justice and Techno Science Lab within the RegNet school. Kate’s research interests and areas of expertise are enormous, and I’ll put links to just some examples in the show notes, but to give you a flavour, they focus on the intersection of the politics and technology as it relates to biomedicalisation, criminalisation, gender regulation, human enhancement and wellbeing, and heavily discussed in this podcast, surveillance and police technologies.
    Technologies of these kinds are profilerating and making their way into our life in visible and invisible ways. They’re becoming normalised, part of how we deliver services, how we prevent or monitor cheating, or how police police. Various digital technologies aren’t just focused on organising calendards or romantically swiping in your neighbourhood, they’re increasingly being called on to address systemic and structural issues in our community – it’s not clear whether these technologies do more harm than good. What is clear is that that the potential benefits of technologies are married to real risks. And those risks mean we need to have a conversation about regulation.
    Kate is a wonderful expert to guide us through that conversation. Despite being so knowledgeable, Kate is a very generous conversationalist, and very regularly highlights the excellent research of her colleagues. I think you’ll enjoy this one to start off the year.
    Timestamps:

    Why regulating technology matters (2:40)
    Technology, ecosystems and surveillance (5:00)
    Government technologies and unintended consequences (9:00)
    How Big Tech facilitates a shift in how racism and discrimination operates (19:15)
    The role of private tech and public regulators in addressing hate speech (25:00)
    How to involve civil society ethically and efficiently in regulating tech (27:30)
    Principles for technology that go beyond fairness (28:45)
    What Professor Henne wants listeners to consider from now (36:45)

    Shownotes:
    Professor Kate Henne’s research profile: https://researchprofiles.anu.edu.au/en/persons/kate-henne
    Justice and Technoscience lab: https://regnet.anu.edu.au/research/centres/justice-and-technoscience-lab-justech
    Some of Professor Henne’s research on regulation of doping in sport: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/0193723515596203?casa_token=CBifKcX5E28AAAAA:fQVcN4cWvRpAZZYnWlEhd2XZVaok7GZ4Pfb9yGN-LeTYGoSS_APM5i1CYfbRIVuW10nKRbWKyy9oJqE
    https://regnet.anu.edu.au/sites/default/files/publications/attachments/2019-01/Dilemmas%20of%20Gender%20and%20Global%20Sports%20Governance.pdf
    Research mentioned from a/Professor Natasha Tusikov: https://ojs.library.queensu.ca/index.php/surveillance-and-society/article/download/12908/8475/
    Safiya Umoja Noble’s book, Algorithms of Racism: https://nyupress.or

    • 41 min
    #12 Full decriminalisation so that no sex worker is left behind - with Dylan O'Hara (Vixen Collective)

    #12 Full decriminalisation so that no sex worker is left behind - with Dylan O'Hara (Vixen Collective)

    Today I am speaking to Dylan from Vixen Collective, Victoria’s peer only sex work organisation, as recognised by Scarlet Alliance, Australian Sex Worker Association. Vixen Collective promote the cultural, legal, human, occupational and civil rights of sex workers. Most recently you might have heard from them during their Victorian campaign to fully decriminalise sex work.
    The conversation today was illuminating. There are few areas where regulation does a more damaging and discriminatory job than sex work in Victoria. The laws do not work, and need to be repealed and replaced with a fully-decriminalised approach to regulating sex-work. Dylan steps us through these changes, explaining why full decriminalisation is so important, but also, they help reframe some of the assumptions that underpin debates.
    What came through clearly is that we have got to get our discriminatory laws and attitudes out of their way, because sex workers are the experts in their industry and experience – they know what to do. I think you’ll learn a lot from this instalment. Enjoy.
    Timestamps:

    Why regulation matters to the sex work community (2:00)
    An update on the Sex Work Decriminalisation Bill 2021 before Parliament (8:00)
    Explaining what sex work decriminalisation is (12:00)
    The steps beyond decriminalisation (16:30)
    Stigma and discrimination as ongoing barriers to full citizenship (22:00)
    How we can reframe debates about sex work to focus on human rights (27:45)
    What listeners can do (33:00)

    Show notes:
    Learn more about Vixen Collective’s policy asks from their No Sex Worker Left Behind campaign: https://www.vixencollective.org/campaigns.
    Check out this briefing paper from Scarlett Alliance: https://scarletalliance.org.au/library/briefing_paper_full_decrim
    You can follow Vixen Collective on Twitter: https://twitter.com/VixenCollective
    Five things you can do:
    1) Find your MP
    Find your local MP: https://www.parliament.vic.gov.au/about/electorates
    2) Give them a call
    Call them to let them know you want full decriminalisation of sex work in Victoria. Leave a voicemail if you need to.
    3) Tweet
    Tweet your local MP [@yourlocalmp] and use the #nosexworkerleftbehind hashtag
    4) Email
    If you prefer, you can email them using the details you found in step 1.
    5) Share your actions
    Share what you’ve done with your friends and family, and encourage them to do the same.

    • 35 min
    #11 Talking gender equality, regulation and culture-change - with Dr Niki Vincent (Vic Gender Equality Commissioner)

    #11 Talking gender equality, regulation and culture-change - with Dr Niki Vincent (Vic Gender Equality Commissioner)

    Today I speak with Dr Niki Vincent (she/her), Victoria’s first Gender Equality Commissioner. Dr Vincent is responsible for overseeing the 2020 Gender Equality Act, which aims to address gender inequality in all Victorian public sector workplaces, and promote gender equality to the community more broadly. I actually met Niki during her previous role as South Australian Commissioner for Equal Opportunity, which she served from 2016 to 2020. In today’s talk, Niki makes clear that gender inequality is still an issue, how the Victorian government has tried to address this through world-first legislation, but also unpacking some of the moral and social responsibilities on people like myself, who have benefited from inequality.
    Apologies for brief issues with sound quality - internet connections were funky.
    Time-stamps

    Why does regulation matter to Dr Vincent (2:00)
    The Gender Equality Act is an Australian-first (4:45)
    What the Gender Equality Act is trying to do (7:30)
    What we know and what we need to learn about inequality (18:00)
    What roles we have to address inequality (27:00)
    What you can do to address inequality (35:00)

    Show notes
    Read more about the Gender Equality Commissioner, and see if you can apply the gender impact assessments to your work! If you are a public sector body, the new reporting platform has been launched too.
    Check your potential biases with the IAT activity that the Commissioner discussed.
    Read the wonderful book, Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez.

    • 43 min
    #10 Getting sophisticated about sanctions and supporting justice that heals - with Emeritus Professor John Braithwaite

    #10 Getting sophisticated about sanctions and supporting justice that heals - with Emeritus Professor John Braithwaite

    Today I speak with Emeritus Professor John Braithwaite from the Australian National University's School of Regulation and Governance (RegNet). In 1992 John and Ian Ayres wrote a book that would change how people understand regulation. It was called Responsive regulation: Transcending the deregulation debate. A simple google of Google Scholar finds that it has been cited over 5700 times! The theory has been developed and applied in too many contexts to list. If that wasn't enough, John has also been at the forefront of restorative justice research and advocacy for the last 30 years. This doesn't do justice to his expertise, so you will just have to do your own research.
    Time-stamps: 

    Why regulation matters to John (2:00)
    What is responsive regulation (12:30)
    The risks of capture and corruption for regulators (18:00)
    The role of civil society to prevent capture and corruption of regulators (20:00)
    What is restorative justice (25:00)
    How the law steals your conflicts (28:00)
    How does restorative justice deal with individual accountability (33:45)
    How does John approach the question of freedom and domination in restorative and responsive regulation (44:00)
    The one thing John wants you to do (49:00)

    Show notes
    The pyramid of sanctions!: http://johnbraithwaite.com/responsive-regulation/pyramid-of-supports-sanctions/

    • 52 min

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