Science of Reading: The Podcast Amplify Education

While in New Orleans at the Plain Talk About Literacy and Learning conference, Susan sat down with keynoter Zaretta Hammond. Zaretta shared her thoughts on the importance of scaffolding in literacy education. In this episode, Susan and Zaretta also look back on Zaretta’s impactful book Culturally Responsive Teaching and the Brain: Promoting Authentic Engagement and Rigor for Culturally and Linguistically Diverse Students and talk about scaffolding, mastery, and the importance of learning how to learn.

Show notes:
Book: Culturally Responsive Teaching and The Brain: Promoting Authentic Engagement and Rigor Among Culturally and Linguistically Diverse Students by Zaretta L. HammondTwitter: @ready4rigorInstagram: @crtandthebrainNewsletter sign up: www.crtandthebrain.comQuotes:
“What I have come to believe is the obstacle is the way. So what worries me becomes my research project. What worries me becomes my new mission.”  —Zaretta Hammond

“For me, justice is the mastery. I'm a movie fan and so I, in this case, think of Master Yoda all the time. You know, he said there's no try or not try. You're just doing it. Either you're teaching them to read or not.” —Zaretta Hammond

“When that scaffold stays [up] too long, it becomes a crutch and the child actually believes they cannot learn without it.” —Zaretta Hammond

“So this idea of somehow we get overprotective and we don't want them to fall. We don't want them to fail. We don't want them, you know, their self, self-esteem, to be bruised. We are actually doing that when we delay this because the only way we learn is through error. And we have not reframed errors as information.” —Zaretta Hammond

“Number one, you assign yourself, and number two, you always go for mastery. Not a grade. No one will ever ask you about your grades four years after college, ever. Go for mastery. They will ask you what you know how to do.” —Zaretta Hammond

After three years and more than 3 million downloads, Science of Reading: The Podcast recently conducted its first ever taping in front of a live audience. The recording took place on March 9, 2023, in New Orleans at the Plain Talk About Literacy and Learning conference. Susan Lambert was joined by none other than Kareem Weaver, NAACP activist, whose first appearance on this podcast remains an all-time favorite among listeners. This time around, Kareem gave Susan a behind-the-scenes look at his involvement with the new film: The Right to Read. Kareem also offered insights into his latest work with NAACP. Plus, Kareem addressed the topic of accountability: can we make the changes we need to make when it comes to literacy instruction without holding some people accountable?


Show notes:
More info on The Right to Read filmTrailer: The Right to Read Kareem Weaver on TwitterFULCRUM websiteKareem Weaver’s first appearance on “Science of Reading: The Podcast”Quotes:
“You could look at it from every endeavor, every social sector. Literacy is at the core.” —Kareem Weaver

“Hope it's not a strategy. It's great to have hope, but that can't be the strategy for our kids and our systems that serve 'em.” —Kareem Weaver

“There has to be some accountability at a human level for people to open up and be willing to believe enough.” —Kareem Weaver

“People often get so caught up in their own feelings and their own agenda and what they can't wait to do and they forget about the people they're supposed to be. Leadership starts with service.” —Kareem Weaver

“Many of us have divested ourselves from our own values to accommodate the narratives and lies we've been told to calm the dissonance.” —Kareem Weaver

“I believe in our potential to solve big problems if we're honest with each other and if we ask the right questions and push the right way.” —Kareem Weaver 

This season is all about tackling the hard stuff, and there is no harder pill to swallow than being told by a student that you don't know how to teach reading—especially when you realize they're right! After this happened to Jamey Peavler, Co-Director in the Reading Science Graduate Program at Mount St. Joseph University, she leaned in and took the opportunity to completely rethink her approach to literacy instruction. Now, her research focuses on maximizing small-group instruction. In this episode, she'll share her findings and her advice, as well as some best practices for small-group instruction and balancing small- and whole-group work.

Show notes:
Book: Explicit Instruction: Effective and Efficient Teaching by Anita L. Archer and Charles A. HughesGraphic: Instructional Hierarchy: Matching Interventions to Student Learning Stage (Haring, et al., 1978)Webinar: Maximizing the Benefits of Small-Group Instruction with Jamey PeavlerBook: 10 Success Factors for Literacy Intervention: Getting Results with MTSS in Elementary Schools by Susan L. HallQuotes:

“We have this mindset of that small-group differentiated golden standard, but there's a certain amount of instruction, again, [that] all kids need and there isn't a lot of difference between those things.” —Jamey Peavler
“There's a certain amount of proactive, preventative foundation-building work that should be done for all kids. We can do that more efficiently in a whole-group setting and then reserve that small-group setting for what truly needs to be differentiated, because not everything has to be differentiated.” —Jamey Peavler

“If we can set aside the idea of introducing a new program, and instead focus our core instruction on how that language and how those routines could actually be intensified in that small-group setting, we're going to minimize that cognitive overload.” —Jamey Peavler

“What we know about overlearning is when you get that fluency down and that generalization down, you are more likely to accurately reach adaptation sooner. So it's not causing harm for the kids who have already learned that skill.” —Jamey Peavler

“When you mess up, it's okay. Just mess up again tomorrow in a different way.” —Jamey Peavler

For the second episode in our new season focused on tackling the hard stuff, we're taking on a question that listeners have asked: how can we apply the Science of Reading in a Montessori setting? To help explore that question, we're joined by the three authors of the recent book Powerful Literacy in the Montessori Classroom: Aligning Reading Research and Practice. Listen to Dr. Susan Zoll, Dr. Natasha Feinberg, and Dr. Laura Saylor as they explore the shared qualities between the Science of Reading and Montessori approach. They share tips and guidance for literacy instruction both inside and outside a Montessori setting and end with an impassioned call to educators from all approaches to come together and learn from each other for the benefit of students everywhere.

Show notes:
Book: Powerful Literacy in the Montessori Classroom: Aligning Reading Research and Practice, by Susan Zoll, Natasha Feinberg, and Laura SaylorBook: Explicit Instruction: Effective and Efficient Teaching, by Anita Archer and Charles HughesQuotes:
“Maria Montessori was a scientist first. She developed her methods based on science.” —Laura Saylor

“Reading is the human rights issue of our era in education and we want all children to be successful.”—Susan Zoll

“I encourage everyone, get together with your colleagues, talk about the different pedagogy, talk about the different strategies that are out there, because that is what is going to help us become better in the field of education.”— Natasha Feinberg

“For those trained in both Science of Reading and Montessori education, there were clear and undeniable parallels between them.”—Susan Zoll

“Teachers want students to be good readers. That is what is underlying our instruction— whether we are Montessori, whether we're teaching in a public school.”—Natasha Feinberg

“If you're a Montessori and continue to use your Montessori language, absolutely follow your philosophy and the pedagogy, but also begin to engage with this language of research because it can elevate the conversation and it can expand our reach into the greater world of education.”—Susan Zoll

“Come see what we do and know that we're willing to share.” —Laura Saylor

“We all want children to have access to wonderful reading instruction. We all want children to have the opportunities and life that each of them deserves. And if we are not working together and we're busy labeling and [in a] silo then we really aren't going to have the collective impact we might have otherwise.” —Laura Saylor

Claude “Skeptic” Goldenberg, professor of Education at Stanford, rejoins Susan Lambert to kick off season seven of this Science of Reading podcast—all centered around “tackling the hard stuff.” In this week’s episode, Claude and Susan take on the topic of what is actually true when it comes to the Science of Reading and how to navigate the noise to find it! Together they discuss the opportunities and challenges of social media, the importance of limitations of foundational skills, and striving to maintain hope even when the journey towards success gets overwhelming.

Show notes: 
Tim Shanahan’s blogThe New England Journal of Medicine: “Physicians Spreading Misinformation on Social Media — Do Right and Wrong Answers Still Exist in Medicine?”Bloom’s Taxonomy“Reading Wars, Reading Science, and English Learners,” by Claude Goldenberg“Stages of Reading Development,” by Jeanne S. Chall“Scientific Basis of the Art of Teaching,” by N.L. Gage Quotes:

"I wish there were a simple solution, but I don't really think there is."—Claude Goldenberg

"It's really gonna take leadership and clear communication and less one-sidedness by people who are influential thought leaders."—Claude Goldenberg

"We know that coaching and professional development and training and observations, we know all those things are important, but it's very important to be efficient because we don't have enough time."—Claude Goldenberg

"We've gotta be really scrupulous and careful about what we mandate and require and expect of teachers and provide them with the knowledge, information, and training that is really important."—Claude Goldenberg

"You can think of literacy as a structure, as something that gets constructed in your mind."—Claude Goldenberg

"If all you have is a foundation, you don't have much."—Claude Goldenberg

"It's really about the kids. I mean, it's really about the students, particularly those kids who are so dependent on schools because they don't have the resources and the opportunities and the affordances at home and in their communities."—Claude Goldenberg

"There are millions of those kids. They're so deeply dependent on the schools to do the right thing. We really owe it to them to get it right."—Claude Goldenberg

"We owe it to the teachers, we owe it to the kids, we owe it to the communities. That's my hope, that people will see the responsibility that we bear, to acknowledge the uncertainties, to acknowledge that we don't know everything."—Claude Goldenberg

We're thrilled to share that we are about to launch brand new seasons of our hit podcasts— Science of Reading: The Podcast, Science Connections, Math Teacher Lounge.

Listen to this trailer to learn more about what's to come in season 7 of Science of Reading: The Podcast, Tackling the Hard Stuff; season 3 of Science Connections, Science is the Underdog; and season 5 of Math Teacher Lounge, Math Anxiety. Click here to visit the new Amplify Podcast Hub and watch the video trailer promoting all three new seasons.

Show notes:
Science of Reading: The Podcast pageScience Connections podcast pageMath Teacher Lounge podcast pageAmplify Podcast HubCrossover episode: The science of learning, the humility of teaching