Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies Jason Swenk

Is the fear of failure holding you back from taking the first steps to establish your brand? Are you hesitating to start a podcast because you believe it would only be worthwhile if it garners millions of downloads? Our guest today is a true trailblazer in the podcast industry, having successfully built a thriving agency around his initial decision to create a show dedicated to entrepreneurs. Tune in for an insightful conversation on the power of pushing boundaries and the value of trying new things in the ever-evolving world of podcasting and entrepreneurship.
Pat Flynn is the serial entrepreneur and podcasting pioneer behind Smart Passive Income, a massive podcast with a long history of teaching entrepreneurs proven strategies to run and optimize their businesses. He’s also the founder SPI Media, an agency that helps people launch and grow their brands. Pat’s podcast was actually the inspiration for the Smart Agency Masterclass podcast and now he joins Jason to discuss the importance of taking risks and embracing failure as part of the learning process.
In this episode, we’ll discuss:
What’s holding people back from starting a podcast?
Mastering the podcasting game.
3 key principles for brand success.
Letting go to grow: lessons on delegating.
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Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.
Navigating the Evolution of Your Brand and Business Just like Pat has inspired so many entrepreneurs, he was inspired by the Internet Business Mastery to start his own podcast in 2007. The result was so terrible he never released that episode and it took over a year for him to gather the courage to try again. After finally releasing his first episode in 2010, he’s started several other podcasts and has amassed around 80 million downloads and a massive following.
Much has changed since he chose Smart Passive Income as the name for his brand and “passive income” has recently gained some negative connotations due to influencers promoting the idea of making money without putting in even 1% of the work. As a result, some big brands are hesitant to partner with a business associated with the term.
Of course, this is not what Pat teaches in his content, and, although he is now referring to it as just SPI, a rebrand is probably in the future to welcome as many opportunities as possible.
Currently, Pat is running a business with 11 employees, which is something he never would’ve thought he’d do. Back when he started his business, he dreamt of running a very lean operation working exclusively with contractors.
As the years went by, however, Pat felt a calling to help as many people as possible and he needed to bring the very best talent to the business to help him realize that. Once he had a team, especially his partner and CEO who took over project management and finances, Pat was able to focus on his zone of genius, doing interviews, building relationships, and going to events.
Focusing Too Much on the Numbers: The Misconception Holding People Back from Podcasting For Pat, the number one reason people refrain from starting a podcast is the fear of wasting time. Things have changed a lot since he started and now it has become such a saturated space that he can’t blame people for thinking theirs may just get lost in the multitude of new releases each day.
Pat challenges agency owners to ask themselves, how many more clients do you need to make a positive impact in your business? Could a podcast help you close more business by attracting potential clients who wouldn’t otherwise find your agency? If the answer is yes, he suggests tailoring podcast episodes to appeal t

Do you want to sell your agency at some point? Do you know where you want to take your business before you’re ready to search for a partnership? Today’s guest started his agency at just twenty-three years old and was ready to sell ten years later, when his business was thriving and had a solid position in a coveted niche. However, the selling process was not as smooth as he hoped and he soon found himself looking for expert advice to understand a complex process that was sure to take a lot of his time for months on end. Tune in to learn how he navigated the M&A process while prioritizing clients and employees, and creating the ideal work environment for his team.
Simon Cristal is the founder of SWC Partnership, an international full-service marketing agency that helps clients increase lead generation and brand awareness by developing strategies and creative ideas. Last year, his agency was acquired by a global independent agency, which he says was a natural process and a great experience overall. Learn his insights on building a client-centric agency, the importance of taking care of clients, and the type of help you’ll need for a smooth acquisition process.
In this episode, we’ll discuss:
Positioning and prioritizing profitability.
From Zero employees to selling an agency.
The agency owner’s roadmap to M&A.
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Sponsors and Resources Copper: This episode of Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Copper, a CRM solution built specifically for agencies that use Google Workspace. Its CRM integration works seamlessly with Gmail, Google Calendar, and Drive, so you never have to switch tabs to add leads, track email conversations, find files, or manage tasks in your marketing or sales process. Head over to Copper.com/agencies and get a free trial exclusively for Jason’s listeners!
Lessons in Pricing, Positioning, and Prioritizing Profitability Simon was born into the advertising world, with his father owning an agency that exposed him to the creative realms of design and copywriting from a young age. As he grew up, Simon navigated his way through several London agencies, honing his skills and gaining valuable experience. Surprisingly, the opportunity to set up his own agency came up earlier than expected. He knew he’d wanted to do it at some point in his career, although he didn’t expect to do it at twenty-three.
Simon started his agency with zero clients, which looking back was a risky move. He did, however, have a clearer vision of pricing. His first client was a big German dairy company and he knew the most effective approach to earn their respect was to refrain from underbidding.
It took around five years for him and his team to start really focusing on B2B and position themselves as specialists in helping brands connect to international audiences. This proved to be a savvy move, as the pandemic forced blue-chip businesses to seek out more affordable, niche agencies like Simon's, with their unique expertise in global brand-building.
In the ten years since starting the business, Simon has seen the importance of surrounding yourself with a good team to get through all sorts of situations. They operate under a very lean model since, in his view, it should never be about how many employees you have but about the type of business you build and whether or not it’s profitable.
This approach to building a passionate team and providing the best possible work environment helped him grow his business, and create great client relationships. It was even a deciding factor when it came to selling the agency.
Inspiring Creativity, Delivering Impact: Secrets of a Thriving Agency Mindset Simon used to believe the agency should be focused on making sales. This has changed with time, as he realized they needed to focus on taking care of clients and looking for ways to help them succeed. It’s a friendly approach that sets the tone for a good agency-client rela

Have you ever doubted your ability to steer your agency toward greatness? Does your team follow your lead on the decisions you make to get there? Many agency owners face this internal battle, questioning if they truly have what it takes to lead their business to new heights. Today’s guest has conquered those self-doubts and forged an unwavering confidence in his leadership abilities. He has grown his successful business over the years, gaining confidence as he accumulated more experience. Although he doesn’t regret past decisions, he realizes he could have retained a majority stake in his company and made it on his own had he trusted himself as he does now. Listen to the full episode to learn about his experience growing his agency and how he built the confidence to succeed.
Torey Azure is the CEO of Brandcraft Agency, a full-service agency that deals in videography, creative, digital marketing, and branding. Tori shares insights into his journey and the importance of having the right message for the right audience to improve digital channel performance.
In this episode, we’ll discuss:
Uncovering what clients need.
Building up leaders.
The confidence to not hesitate when making decisions.
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Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service.
3 Key Strategies for Authentic Client Interactions Back in high school, Torey was able to blend in with different crowds, being the jock who was also voted as ‘most artistic’ in his class. Thinking back on that time, he realizes that the ability to relate to people from different backgrounds and industries has helped him succeed as an agency owner. It’s not about liking to be the center of attention but about having emotional intelligence and connecting with clients and colleagues on a personal level.
If you’re someone who finds it hard to network and especially starting a conversation with a stranger, Torey believes the most successful interactions will come from these 3 key strategies:
Don’t have an agenda. Speak confidently without thinking about what the other party may want to hear, and learn to quickly identify when someone should or shouldn’t be a client. This will come from practice and being in many different situations with different types of people.
Learn to really listen to people. Instead of pitching yourself, take a true interest in the other person. It will make for a much more enjoyable and memorable experience for them.
Genuinely curiosity about people. Find out why they started their business. With the pandemic and so much time spent on digital environments, it’s as if people have lost the ability to riff off in a conversation and be invested in what the other person is saying. However, it’s a very important skill to help prospective clients feel comfortable.
Make a Lasting Impact and Avoid the Order-Taker Trap Torey believes his job as a marketer is to uncover what the client needs, which is not necessarily what they think they need. This approach is crucial for providing effective solutions and adding value to clients' businesses.
Too many agencies fall into the trap of being order takers, simply doing what the client asks without questioning or understanding the underlying problem. This mindset can lead to short-term gains but ultimately results in a race to the bottom competing to offer the lowest price. Instead, Torey advocates for taking the time to truly understand the client's needs and challenges, even if it means challenging their initial requests.
It’s a lesson Torey has learned through experience when in the past his agency created a good strategy to find the client’s au

Do you fear missed opportunities if you define a niche or turn away less-than-ideal prospects? Today’s guest started his agency as a college student and pivoted to digital services as the internet barely became a thing. One of the biggest shifts and struggles in his journey has been overcoming the fear of tuning down revenue and letting go of the notion that his way was the only approach clients would respond to. Tune in to learn valuable insights on navigating the agency landscape, committing to a niche, and maintaining a thriving business while prioritizing well-being.
Brendan Chard is the owner and founder of The Modern Firm, a digital marketing agency for solo and small law firms. His team helps attorneys build an online presence tailored to their needs and creates client partnerships at a pace that feels right for them.
Brendan shares his journey of starting initially as an IT business and evolving it into a successful agency serving clients nationwide. He discusses the importance of avoiding burnout in the agency world and the elements you need to find the right balance between fulfilling work and owning your time.
In this episode, we’ll discuss:
Overcoming the fear of turning down profit.
Managing workload with forecasting and hiring ahead.
Lessons from a workaholic anonymous.
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Sponsors and Resources Copper: This episode of Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Copper, a CRM solution built specifically for agencies that use Google Workspace. Its CRM integration works seamlessly with Gmail, Google Calendar, and Drive, so you never have to switch tabs to add leads, track email conversations, find files, or manage tasks in your marketing or sales process. Head over to Copper.com/agencies and get a free trial exclusively for Jason’s listeners!
How the Right Mentorship Turned a Side Hustle into a Digital Agency Starting out in his dorm room at college, Brendan initially focused on providing IT services for small businesses. He had a knack for repairing computers and his results gradually led to being connected with several law firms that kept recommending him to others in the legal space. This was during the early days of the internet when clients began requesting website development in addition to IT services. Despite initial skepticism about the internet's longevity, Brendan transitioned to website development and digital marketing.
It was a unique time for him to start the agency since being in business school gave him access to a lot of tools and mentors available to guide him through the process. He learned a specific business strategy one day, tried it the next day at his agency, and then reported back to professors.
Overcoming the Fear of Turning Down Revenue for Focused Growth It took about eight years for Brendan to get his agency to the 7-figure mark. He recalls several bad decisions in terms of clients/projects taken to get there, which he now actively avoids.
In light of this, he focuses more on finding the perfect client fit, although he admits it’s something he still struggles with. While his agency operates in the legal vertical, they eventually discovered that their optimal niche was working specifically with solo and small law firms. They found that collaborating with larger firms resulted in increased stress and less enjoyable projects, as committees rather than individual owners made decisions.
Nonetheless, finding their perfect niche and learning to say no to the wrong clients didn’t happen at the same time. Brendan was very clear on the agency’s focus and knew it was better equipped to work with small forms. When it came to rejecting someone who was just not the right fit, however, it meant turning down potential revenue. It’s taken several misses to learn that, ultimately, not working with the wrong clients leads to a more streamlined and successful business model.
Why Forecasting and Hiring Ahead Is The Best Practice

Are you struggling to keep your clients happy and retain their business? How do you prepare your team to create the best client experience? In today's competitive market, delivering an exceptional client experience is paramount. Our guest today is a true master of client service, leading a team laser-focused on understanding each client's unique needs and proactively crafting tailored solutions that address their pain points head-on. Tune in to learn strategies for client retention and growth in your agency business.
Khushbu Doshi is a customer service specialist passionate about strategizing, making realistic action plans, and following up on their implementation to get real results for agencies. She leads the customer service and sales division at E2M Solutions, managing a portfolio of 200+ agency clients, and works closely with a team of 20 to ensure client satisfaction.
She’s been on the show before discussing ways to improve customer success and reduce churn. Int his episode, she’ll share insights into the importance of building trust and providing value to clients to foster long-term relationships.
In this episode, we’ll discuss:
Strategies to building trust and efficiency.
Understanding client needs.
Reviving client engagement.
The always & never exercise.
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2 Reasons Agencies Lose Clients Client satisfaction and retention are crucial for any business and building trust through efficient service is a key way to grow your client base. In essence, there are two main reasons an agency may be losing clients:
1. Clients don’t understand the value your agency is providing, or
2. You’re bringing on the wrong agency clients.
To illustrate the impact of client satisfaction, Khushbu talks about the Delta 4 Framework, a way to rate client experiences that can be applied to products and services. Results of this framework will show your service’s efficiency, with a rating of four or above indicating that clients are unlikely to switch to a less efficient option. In the case of Uber versus traditional cabs, Uber's efficiency rating was eight, hinting that clients would rarely go back to using regular cabs.
Businesses can then keep track of their efficiency and rate themselves in terms of client satisfaction or a particular project. According to Khushbu, results from applying this framework should be met with the curiosity to find out “why” and what’s behind said results. If clients are unhappy with the service, why is that? The answers will help you define a roadmap to deal with those metrics.
Efficiency is not just about completing tasks quickly, but also about providing a seamless and effective experience for clients. When a service is efficient, clients are more likely to share it with others, leading to word-of-mouth recommendations and further growth for the business.
Understanding Client Needs and Tailoring Solutions for Success Everyone brings a different set of expectations to the agency-customer relationship. Agencies should try to understand their clients’ pain points better. At E2M, they focus heavily on defining these pain points during the first client call and then tailor their offering to fit the solution that particular client needs.
For example, if a client lacks technical expertise, the agency can step in as a technical expert to provide the necessary support. If a client struggles with communication, the agency can act as a project manager or account manager to streamline communication processes and save the client time.
This approach is crucial in ensuring that clients save time and become more efficient, ultimately leading to a more successful and fruitful relationship between the agency and the client.
Furthermore, Khushbu highlights the importance of ongoing communication and follow-up with clients even after delivering a service. Checking in with them and ensuring the solutions provided meet clients’ needs and e

Would you say your agency is like your baby? Could you be so emotionally attached to your business that you may be stifling its growth? Today’s guest will share his experience growing an agency and the turning points that allowed him to make real progress in its growth. From learning to communicate his agency's vision in a way that inspired buy-in to the surprising struggle of carving out space for a personal life amidst the chaos of entrepreneurship, his biggest challenge was letting go of the belief that he alone was the driving force behind its success. Tune in to learn his valuable lessons and tips for agency success.
Suken Shah is the owner of Envision Marketing, a digital agency that works with clients to find the right strategy that will them find success online. They mostly work with small businesses to help them build their website, SEO presence, and get more leads. Suken shares insights and stories from his 10 years of agency growth and the mindset shift required to see real agency growth. Tune in to learn his valuable lessons and tips for agency success.
In this episode, we’ll discuss:
The problem with calling your agency “your baby.”
Learning to communicate your worth.
The power of communication and transparency.
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Sponsors and Resources Copper: This episode of Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by Copper, a CRM solution built specifically for agencies that use Google Workspace. Its CRM integration works seamlessly with Gmail, Google Calendar, and Drive, so you never have to switch tabs to add leads, track email conversations, find files, or manage tasks in your marketing or sales process. Head over to Copper.com/agencies and get a free trial just for Jason’s listeners!
Embracing the Entrepreneurial Leap & The Unexpected Realities of Agency Life  Suken never had concrete plans to establish an agency. His journey into the world of digital marketing began when he was offered a teaching opportunity at the University of Nevada. Eager to excel in his new role, he delved into digital marketing, eventually formalizing his business as an LLC and initially running it as a side venture. He approached the transition from his corporate job with caution, gradually embracing the potential of his digital business as it gained traction.
As he embraced his new role as an entrepreneur, the most unexpected aspect of owning an agency was the sheer amount of effort required to build a team, attract and retain clients, and steer the business in the right direction. Suken was taken aback by the challenge of taking breaks and carving out personal time amidst the demands of the business.
Initially, he anticipated owning a business would allow him to maintain a similar income level as with his corporate job while having more free time. However, the reality was markedly different. As an agency owner, he found himself being the first to arrive and the last to leave, bearing the brunt of responsibility and often being the scapegoat for any misstep.
Driven by the fear of losing clients, Suken dedicated himself to client acquisition and business growth. His commitment to delivering exceptional results led to organic growth through client referrals, solidifying his agency's reputation.
The Problem with Calling an Agency “Your Baby” Suken is still navigating the process of relinquishing control over certain tasks, acknowledging that it's a work in progress for him as a business owner. Delegating tasks used to be a struggle for him as he wanted things to be done a certain way. His agency, in many ways, has been like his 'baby', making it emotionally challenging to entrust control to others. This emotional attachment is a common experience among business owners who have poured their time, energy, and passion into nurturing the growth and success of their ventures.
After years of dedicated efforts to witness the gradual growth and success of an agency, it has bec