52 episodes

It’s a new world. To navigate it, we need new maps. Each episode, best-selling author Chris Kutarna and Scott Jones soar 50,000 feet above the immediate headlines in politics, economics, science and society. The Atlas Project aims to reveal the big picture of where humanity is headed, and the choices we all need to face.

The Atlas Project Chris Kutarna & Scott Jones

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    • 5.0 • 2 Ratings

It’s a new world. To navigate it, we need new maps. Each episode, best-selling author Chris Kutarna and Scott Jones soar 50,000 feet above the immediate headlines in politics, economics, science and society. The Atlas Project aims to reveal the big picture of where humanity is headed, and the choices we all need to face.

    Episode 52: Who Are The Innovators?

    Episode 52: Who Are The Innovators?

    Summary
    Hosts Scott Jones and Chris Kutarna ask: who are the innovators in our strained society? Building on Merton’s Strain Theory, Scott and Chris explore our relationships to the mainstream from climate to cryptocurrency.


    The Hosts
    Chris Kutarna is an author, speaker, facilitator and founder of basecamp (@onecampfire) and the Neue Geographical Society (@braveneueways). He challenges the world to brave new ways, breaking old maps and making new ones towards a shared horizon of a better world.


    Scott Jones is a podcaster (Give & Take), speaker, theologian and consultant. He weaves his knowledge of religion, current events, and pop culture to bring listeners on a conversational journey to something entertaining, informative, and oftentimes enlightening.


    Navigate
    [00:00] - Introduction
    [6:50] - The strain currently on climate & society
    [10:15] - Making sense of strain then and now
    [14:00] - Insight from unsettling truths / Merton’s Strain Theory
    [25:00] - Chris wants to be a rebel
    [34:40] - Our relationship with the mainstream
    [37:50] - We’re all necessary to improvement
    [45:50] - What should the goals be?
    [49:15] - Alternative labels for Merton’s boxes
    [56:00] - Cryptocurrency in 1 () minute
    [1:00:35] - Cryptocurrency & Merton’s boxes
    [1:03:45] - Typologies as maps & closing the conversation


    Explore Merton’s Theory
    Check out the show links to find Merton’s (1938) Strain Theory paper & the model Scott and Chris used in the episode.


    What to do next?
    Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse: Scott loves Clubhouse. A lot.


    Subscribe & don’t miss an episode.


    And, consider the outputs: Ask yourself the questions Scott & Chris found in the conversation.
    Start a conversation with your family, friends, or colleagues. Life is a team sport.


    The Socials
    basecamp @onecampfire
    The Neue Geographical Society @braveneueways


    Chris @ChrisKutarna
    chris@journeytobasecamp.com


    Scott @ScottKentJones
    scottkentjones@gmail.com
    Links:
    Merton's (1938) paperMerton's Deviance Typology (diagram)The book Chris doesn't recommend (The Ever-Present Origin)

    • 1 hr 7 min
    Episode 51: Rethinking Work and Play

    Episode 51: Rethinking Work and Play

    Summary
    Hosts Scott Jones and Chris Kutarna have a frank conversation about work and play. From sports to the Marvel Universe, Scott and Chris chat about what play can tell us about society and ourselves.


    The Hosts
    Chris Kutarna is an author, speaker, facilitator and founder of basecamp (@onecampfire) and the Neue Geographical Society (@braveneueways). He challenges the world to brave new ways, breaking old maps and making new ones towards a shared horizon of a better world.


    Scott Jones is a podcaster (Give & Take), speaker, theologian and consultant. He weaves his knowledge of religion, current events, and pop culture to bring listeners on a conversational journey to something entertaining, informative, and oftentimes enlightening.


    Navigate
    [00:00] - Wimbledon, weather, and suffering
    [12:00] - The pandemic & mental health
    [16:30] - Dungeons & Dragons
    [24:25] - Superhero alignments
    [38:45] - Play is insightful
    [46:45] - Our (honest) alignments
    [54:50] - Let’s align politicians
    [1:02:16] - “Wanting to be one of the good guys”


    The Timeless Outputs
    Chris really doesn’t know anything about golf, but he can hold his own in the MCU.


    We are all profoundly different now than we were 18 months ago. The pandemic experience has changed us, and we’re not bouncing back. By eliminating so many opportunities to play during the pandemic, we refocused our energy on work productivity. And, we’ve lost how we grow and discover through play. What’s the consequence?


    Dungeons & Dragons’ alignment paradigm can give us great insight into how we could look at good and evil in our own world. Where good and evil can be divorced from law and crime. For example, we tend to hold people in society to a “lawful good” standard. In a DND game - who wants to be “lawful good”?


    We are all so much more complicated and compromised than we can admit in polite company. Because we all like to think of ourselves as good people.


    What to do next?
    Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse: Scott loves Clubhouse. A lot.


    Subscribe & don’t miss an episode: If you join June 14’s Brave New Thinking Clubhouse, you might get a mention.


    Watch Westworld (the movie or TV show) to see an imagining of our moral and societal alignments in story.


    And, consider the outputs: Ask yourself the questions Scott & Chris found in the conversation.
    Start a conversation with your family, friends, or colleagues. Life is a team sport.


    The Socials
    basecamp @onecampfire
    The Neue Geographical Society @braveneueways


    Chris @ChrisKutarna
    chris@journeytobasecamp.com


    Scott @ScottKentJones
    scottkentjones@gmail.com
    Links:
    Osaka at the French OpenChris’ TedTalk

    • 1 hr 10 min
    Episode 50: What Is Inequality?

    Episode 50: What Is Inequality?

    Summary
    Hosts Scott Jones and Chris Kutarna explore the timeless question: “What’s the nature of equality?” In the context of the tax rate revelations from Pro Publica, Scott and Chris explore the history of equality and what it means today.


    The Hosts
    Chris Kutarna is an author, speaker, facilitator and founder of basecamp (@onecampfire) and the Neue Geographical Society (@braveneueways). He challenges the world to brave new ways, breaking old maps and making new ones towards a shared horizon of a better world.


    Scott Jones is a podcaster (Give & Take), speaker, theologian and consultant. He weaves his knowledge of religion, current events, and pop culture to bring listeners on a conversational journey to something entertaining, informative, and oftentimes enlightening.


    Navigate
    [00:00] - Intro
    [05:15] - The leap to Pro-Publica
    [07:35] - What is the nature of inequality?
    [11:28] - Fairness & Economic Inequality
    [17:50] - What about communism?
    [19:25] - Wealth inequality is a drag on an economy
    [23:20] - Systemic social inequality
    [28:35] - Imago dei: dignity & material inequality
    [35:32] - The pandemic & global inequality
    [40:30] - Dysfunctional inequalities
    [47:21] - Marx got it wrong?
    [53:18] - TLDR; We need new maps


    The Timeless Outputs
    The more money they have, the more people can go beyond the “Veil of Ignorance” and actually advance their political interests with that money. And, the way society rewards wealth via decreased taxation has depleted the once rare, vibrant middle class in the US. It doesn’t stop at the wealthy, but despite the highest corporate tax rates in the world the taxation loopholes in the US mean that large corporations pay hardly any taxes at all. All of this to further concentrate wealth among the most wealthy.


    When wealth is hoarded by the wealthy, it becomes stagnant. When wealth is more equally distributed, it moves through economies. For example, when money is in the hands of people who don’t yet have houses, they buy houses and that money flows through the economy creating jobs and stimulating growth. Whereas the wealthiest of the world have large pools of money sitting in accounts, removed from local economies.


    It seems like the difference between economic and social inequality is that there’s a dominant understanding that a little bit of economic inequality will always be present. Whereas, social inequalities are more clearly unacceptable even in small amounts. So, economic inequality has become a slippery slope - accepting little by little until we’ve landed to today’s deep inequality.


    What to do next?
    Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse: Scott loves Clubhouse. A lot.


    Subscribe & don’t miss an episode: If you join June 14’s Brave New Thinking Clubhouse, you might get a mention.


    Definitely watch Snowpiercer: It’s a Netflix Original. Just, do it.


    And, consider the outputs: Ask yourself the questions Scott & Chris found in the conversation.
    Start a conversation with your family, friends, or colleagues. Life is a team sport.


    The Socials
    basecamp @onecampfire
    The Neue Geographical Society @braveneueways


    Chris @ChrisKutarna
    chris@journeytobasecamp.com


    Scott @ScottKentJones
    scottkentjones@gmail.com
    Links:
    One of ProPublica’s articlesA Theory of Justice by John Rawls

    • 58 min
    Episode 49: What Does Money Mean Now?

    Episode 49: What Does Money Mean Now?

    Summary
    Hosts Scott Jones and Chris Kutarna explore the timeless question of money & value. In this episode, they dig into: “What does money mean now?” In the context of record-breaking federal budgets, crypto currency, meme stocks and more, Scott and Chris explore money and value from the 6th century Hebrew prophets to Chris’ childhood allowance.


    The Hosts
    Chris Kutarna is an author, speaker, facilitator and founder of basecamp (@onecampfire) and the Neue Geographical Society (@braveneueways). He challenges the world to brave new ways, breaking old maps and making new ones towards a shared horizon of a better world.


    Scott Jones is a podcaster (Give & Take), speaker, theologian and consultant. He weaves his knowledge of religion, current events, and pop culture to bring listeners on a conversational journey to something entertaining, informative, and oftentimes enlightening.


    Navigate
    [00:00] - Intro
    [06:17] - The question: What does money mean now?
    [08:45] - Scott’s spectrum of money - Monopoly money to Crypto currencies.
    [10:35] - A brief history of money to cryptocurrencies [Europe]
    [16:40] - A bit of modern monetary theory
    [19:14] - Is balancing the budget responsible? Or fool hardy?
    [24:30] - How does government money work? What are taxes for?
    [26:32] - Purchasing power goes digital
    [32:34] - Is money freedom-giving?
    [36:48] - Star Trek and futurism, or The Walking Dead and post-apocalyptic economies
    [41:22] - Barter economy in China
    [43:35] - What do we value?
    [50:10] - Money enables impersonal relationships
    [55:30] - Scott brings in Jesus (our wants)
    [59:28] - Does protestantism create capitalism?
    [1:02:20] - Money can drive innovation
    [1:05:49] - Money is a really good tool for asking good questions
    [1:10:05] - Non monetary wealth does have value in society
    [1:13:00] - Wrap up


    The Timeless Outputs
    Money is intrinsically worthless - it’s human’s willingness to accept it that gives it value. Asking people “what is money?” really is asking people what they value. Money can convert our wants and needs into freedom to attain those things. Money was created by cultures as this tool for exchange, but now the tool has become an animating principle of our culture.


    We have to completely rethink the fundamental concepts of government money like debt and deficits and taxation to get a handle on what money really does and is in late modernity. The only thing you have to worry about with spending is inflation. Deficits are actually fine to “juice economic growth,” and some modern economists agree that if a country isn’t operating at a deficit they’re not doing their job. A country is not a household.


    The roots of our trouble with economy is that we value the money put into production differently than the labour. Capital investments into production are rewarded accordingly with more monetary gain the better the product or service performs in the marketplace. Labour investments (workers) are not rewarded beyond the smallest amount workers are willing to take. We’ve decided investment means money. And labour is a like a material input rather than a human input - find its lowest price in the market and buy it there. This is where the class and geographical inequities are, and why the disparity keeps growing.


    BONUS
    Chris reports back after the London Design Biennale. From EU eliminating single use plastic utensils to the microplastics coming from our tires everyday - it was dull, but some things were interesting.


    What to do next?
    Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse: Scott loves Clubhouse. A lot. And, we’re hosting a debrief of this episode and workshop for the next one in Clubhouse on Monday, June 14 at 9:00pm GMT. Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse to join.


    Subscribe & don’t miss an episode: If you join June 14’s Brave New Thinking Clubhouse, you might get a mention.


    And, cons

    • 1 hr 14 min
    Episode 48: Are We Part Of Nature?

    Episode 48: Are We Part Of Nature?

    Summary
    Hosts Scott Jones and Chris Kutarna explore the timeless question of sustainability. Scott and Chris ask, “Are we part of nature?” In the context of Ford’s big announcement about it’s move to electric for the classic F150 (and Biden’s excitement after a test drive), Scott and Chris explore the environment and our relationship to it through politics, philosophy, religion, and pop culture references.


    The Hosts
    Chris Kutarna is an author, speaker, facilitator and founder of basecamp (@onecampfire) and the Neue Geographical Society (@braveneueways). He challenges the world to brave new ways, breaking old maps and making new ones towards a shared horizon of a better world.


    Scott Jones is a podcaster (Give & Take), speaker, theologian and consultant. He weaves his knowledge of religion, current events, and pop culture to bring listeners on a conversational journey to something entertaining, informative, and oftentimes enlightening.


    Navigate
    [00:00] - Intro
    [04:50] - The question in context: Are we part of nature?
    [10:51] - Political diversity & going ‘green’
    [15:35] - Planet of the Apes (spoiler alert) & humanity is separate from nature
    [20:30] - Trying to integrate an understanding of nature (Socrates)
    [23:50] - Creation stories & philosophy
    [27:53] - Reframing sustainability & introducing "The Paper"
    [32:00] - The economy, society, and environment
    [37:58] - Nature doesn’t seem fragile & nature’s contributions to people (NCP)
    [41:55] - Why isn’t this frame obvious?
    [47:10] - The frame IS obvious, but it is NOT our present paradigm -- and that’s why changing it is profound.
    [50:25] - Scott’s favourite hymn: “All Creatures of Our God and King”
    [53:52] - The question that sets us forth
    [55:05] - We are nature’s storytellers
    [58:25] - Go watch _Star Trek 4 _(spoiler alert)
    [1:00:27] - Chris loves Whale Songs.
    [1:03:24] - The close


    The Timeless Outputs
    The Nature Positive paradigm facilitates a much deeper and more complex narrative to explore sustainability. The Paper suggests we reject the venn diagram of economy, society, and environment as equally important components with competing interests. Instead, the model should be nested circles - environment the largest, with society nested within and economy within society. These are not competing interests, they are a hierarchy. Economy happens in the context of society, and society happens in the context of the environment.


    Scott & Chris have lots of questions: How can we navigate our conception of infinity and our radical finitude? How did we depart from the prehistoric understanding of oneness with nature? Is the electric F150 signalling a shift away from climate change as political fodder?


    “The gift of being human is that we can tell the story of nature, and be nature’s mouthpiece.” Maybe the solution to the climate crisis starts with recognizing - however obvious - nature’s fragility.


    What to do next?
    Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse: Scott loves Clubhouse. A lot. And, we’re hosting a debrief of this episode and workshop for the next one (Maybe about money?) in Clubhouse on Monday, May 31 at 9:00pm GMT. Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse to join.


    Subscribe & don’t miss an episode: Next week, Scott & Chris take on money, or rather the question “What does money mean now?” (If you join Monday’s Brave New Thinking Clubhouse, you might get a mention.)


    And, consider the outputs: Check out naturepositive.org & read The Paper if you’re into that. Ask yourself: “why is something so obvious so profound?” And, life is a team sport, so share it with a friend or colleague and have your own conversation, too.


    Bonus: Go watch Star Trek 4, Planet of the Apes, or listen to some whale songs.


    The Socials
    basecamp @onecampfire
    The Neue Geographical Society @braveneueways


    Chris @ChrisKutarna
    Scott @Scot

    • 1 hr 9 min
    Episode 47: Is Religion Oppressive?

    Episode 47: Is Religion Oppressive?

    The Hosts
    Chris Kutarna is an author, speaker, facilitator and founder of basecamp (@onecampfire) and the Neue Geographical Society (@braveneueways). He challenges the world to brave new ways, breaking old maps and making new ones towards a shared horizon of a better world. Follow @ChrisKutarna on all social media.


    Scott Jones is a podcaster (Give & Take), speaker, theologian and consultant. He weaves his knowledge of religion, current events, and pop culture to bring listeners on a conversational journey to something entertaining, informative, and oftentimes enlightening. Follow @ScottKentJones on all social media.


    Navigate
    [00:37] - Introduction
    [02:12] - What’s up on Clubhouse?
    [04:35] - Religion in the escalating Israel/Palestine conflict.
    [10:15] - “Religion is at its best when it’s deapocalyptizing things.”
    [13:25] - The culture war in the US is fueled by religion.
    [20:11] - Religion is one of many ideological tools of culture.
    [26:08] - The personal habit of religious practice.
    [31:05] - Democracy and the ethnostate of Israel.
    [41:21] - Is religion oppressive? It depends on its role in society.
    [45:14] - The phenomenon of religious innovation in the US.
    [51:27] - Is the weight of religion too great?
    [55:38] - What do we take from all of this?
    [1:02:36] - Ask yourself: Where is the evidence of religion in our lives?
    [1:11:11] - Scott gets emotional about The Crown.
    [1:13:02] - Closing


    The Timeless Outputs
    Religion is a given. It is, despite its critics, part of human culture. We hunger for transcendence. So the question becomes not how do we get rid of religion, but how do we navigate its role in our societies? Acknowledging that religion - including and especially secular religion - is a part of our lives and maybe our greatest defence from its oppression. Maybe religion is most oppressive when it’s silent.


    Religion is at its best when it is deapocalypticizing the world. And, when it is doing the work of creating more equitable societies. So then, how can religion become a tool for people to engage in and be helpful to a democratic society, rather than a barrier to them? Let’s ask ourselves and others: what is religion for in our communities?


    Sources / Read more
    Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks
    Paul Tillich
    Christopher Hitchens
    A Brief History of the Israel-Palestine Conflict
    Protestant Catholic Jew by Will Herberg
    Seculosity by David Zahl
    The Righteous Mind by Jonathan Haidt


    What to do next?
    Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse: Scott loves Clubhouse. A lot. And, we’re hosting a debrief of this episode and workshop for the next on (Is China right?) in Clubhouse on Monday, May 24th at 9:00pm GMT. Follow the Brave New Thinking Clubhouse to join.


    Subscribe & don’t miss an episode: Next week, Scott & Chris take on China, or rather the question “Is China right?” (If you join May 24th’s Brave New Thinking Clubhouse, you might get a mention.)


    And, consider the outputs: Ask yourself the questions Scott & Chris found in the conversation. Start a conversation with your family, friends, or colleagues.
    The Socials
    basecamp @onecampfire
    The Neue Geographical Society @braveneueways


    Chris @ChrisKutarna
    Scott @ScottKentJones

    • 1 hr 15 min

Customer Reviews

5.0 out of 5
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2 Ratings

LJMcDonald ,

Love it

Great (informed, witty, challenging, even-handed) conversation is a rare thing. You guys bring it each time. Thanks. Keep it coming.

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