Subjects in Process Jeff and Jonathan

Jonathan and Jeff are finally back with a conversation that picks up the threads that were left in the previous episode's topics of Daoist philosophy and technology. Jeff asks Jon if he's seen Spirited Away and tries to make a connection without revealing too much (since as of the time of the recording, Jon had no seen it). They discuss their mutual friend Troy. Digging into their admittedly surface-level understanding of Daoism, they discuss some key themes as they relate to our desire and longing for a worthwhile existence. Jeff suggests there is an empathetic element to Bo Burnham's song about white women on Instagram that is connected to his deeper critique of technology. This leads to a brief inquiry into whether all comedians were nihilists or not -- they suggest that the late great Norm MacDonald did not seem to be. 

They circle back to the anarchic underpinnings of Daoist philosophy. They talk about the differences between morality and virtue (in the Daoist sense). They link the Daoist resistance to social norms to Nietzsche's concept of the Apollonian and the Dionysian. Jeff talks about the difference between Bacchus as exhuberance and fecundity (at least as he appears in the Narnian Universe) and Dionysius as destruction and death drive (at least as he appears in Nietzsche). Jon and Jeff bring up (and disagree about) the difference between an understanding of the Way as a kind of origin versus an understanding of it as a kind of ideal. Jeff reflects on the relation of anxiety and Lacanian psychoanalytical thought and the Daoist concept of the uncarved block. 

During the second half, they again debate whether the Way is about returning to an originary state of non-striving or whether it is about finding what is nourishing. They discuss the difference between dopamine hits (like if Troy likes one of Jeff's tweets) and true satisfaction or contentment. They return to the topic of technology and its positioning ideologically as a mechanism for freeing us from toil. They talk about the similarities and differences between Daoist and Christian thought. Jon talks about the disgusting way Dale Carnegie's book about winning friends has been used in the business world. Jeff asks about whether evolutionary thought is working to leave certain Victorian-era metaphors behind, and Jon talks about the role of reciprocity in nature and its relationship to the idea of contentment. Jeff finishes with the story of how he recently acquired a stack of books on eastern philosophy (and some other stuff).

Got something to say? Email us at subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com



Show Notes

Tao Te Ching, by Lao Tzu

Taoism: The Parting of the Way, by Holmes Welch Jr.

Spirited Away (Film)

"White Woman's Instagram" by Bo Burnham

Mythos, by Stephen Fry

The Birth of Tragedy, by Friedrich Nietzsche

Prince Caspian, by C.S. Lewis

Happiness is Not a Fish You Can Catch, by Our Lady Peace

How to Win Friends and Influence People, by Dale Carnegie

10,000 Dreams Interpreted



Music 

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay 

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

Jonathan and Jeff continue their discussion of technology and the dilemma of how technology makes things easier, which simultaneously undermines the activities that lead to meaning (e.g., habit-building, etc.). Building off of Alan Jacobs's essay that we raised last time, they discuss the Hong Kong-Berlin philosopher, Yuk Hui, and his idea of cosmotechnics.
They discuss the nefarious efforts of technology to capitalize on our fascination with The New; the history of Diet Coke (it's related to Newness); James K.A. Smith, his "cultural liturgies" series, and the centrality of habit-building to the human experience; the sources of our comfort foods; the role of being persistently committed to the mundane; the relationship between habits and the contextual webs that promote or undermine their formation; where does meaning come from and exist; tips on how to navigate complicated books (tl;dr: read a review!); they go into detail about Yuk Hui's initial argument in The Question Concerning Technology, including the role of the Promethean myth in the development of the Western cosmotechnic; how our worldview are shaped by stories, our communities, and other things; whether it's even possible to tell or submit to new stories that shape our orientation to the world; the possibility (or lack thereof) of converting to Eastern Orthodox theology; the way our communities shape our eschatologies; Jeff tries out his Rob Bell impersonation and also riffs on a potential "business fiction" idea; driving fast on the autobahn; the work Chile is doing on its new constitution; Ratatouille; the scandal of particularity vs novelty; Yuk Hui's "new understanding of history"; the inner lives of wolves — with a quick side discussion on Timothy Morton's hyperobjects; and Jeff teases an amazing story about an encounter with the Dao that you’ll only be able to hear if you listen to the next episode!
If you would like to send us a note, email us at subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com.
Show Notes

Alan Jacobs, "From Tech Critique to Ways of Living," The New Atlantis: https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/from-tech-critique-to-ways-of-living
James K.A. Smith, You Are What You Love
Yann Martel, Life of Pi
Yuk Hui, The Question Concerning Technology in China
Martin Heidegger, The Question Concerning Technology
Rick Riordan, The Lightning Thief
Mary Shelley, Frankenstein
C.S. Lewis, The Great Divorce
The Heretic (Documentary): https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7174366/
John Green, Turtles All the Way Down

Music

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay
Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

Jeff and Jonathan open this next episode in their miniseries on technology by talking about an article by Alan Jacobs that recently appeared in The New Atlantis. The subtitle of this article is: "Neil Postman was right. So what?" Is there a way beyond critique, without losing the true and accurate observations of Postman and others? Jonathan mentions the dark place the technology question has led him to, citing Nietzsche's adage: "the measure of a person is how much truth they can handle." They discuss — and don’t always agree on! — how the valid instrumentalities of the past have given way to a world of "standing reserve." Is it possible to introduce new technologies? What counts as "meaningful"? What is meaning even?
They talk about the value of having a friend who can play the theremin, the ongoing prescience of Fern Gully, the value of having a friend who knows how to make a fire (thank you to Jeff’s neighbour!), Owen Barfield’s idea of the evolution of consciousness, Bruderhof communes, the aversion of much of academic culture to conviviality and family, the story of people trying to push so-called “technological advances” on cultures without accounting for that culture’s embeddedness within its existing context.
Jeff also gets a scatological Bible story way wrong (i.e., Ezekiel doesn't eat it; he cooks over it — but it does not belong to a dog [Ezekiel 4:12-17]).
Want to add your two cents? Email us as subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com

Show Notes
Alan Jacobs, "From Tech Critique to Ways of Living," The New Atlantis: https://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/from-tech-critique-to-ways-of-living
George Stuart, The Wheelwright's Shop, https://archive.org/details/wheelwrights-shop/mode/2up
Owen Barfield, Saving the Appearances: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saving_the_Appearances
Andrew Skabelund, "The Gods of Academia: Child Sacrifice in the Ivory Tower," Plough Quarterly: https://www.plough.com/en/topics/life/work/the-gods-of-academia
Yuk Hui, Hong Kong-Berlin philosopher: https://twitter.com/digital_objects
Music
Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay
Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" by Tim Moor on Pixabay

Jeff and Jonathan are back with season two of Subjects in Process. Starting off with a series on technology, in this first half of the episode, Jeff and Jonathan attempt to summarize what they think they know, their sources and where they are coming from, and what questions they want to investigate about what Martin Heidegger called “the question concerning technology”.

In the second half of the episode – recorded two weeks later – they go into more of their assumptions and lay the groundwork to discuss some shifts in their thinking. Jonathan describes his expectation of discussing the catch-22 of either being carried along by the forces of tech or the blunders of overseeing the impossible task of attempting to confront this and comprehensively design the world, and how he has shifted to considering alternatives beyond this potentially false dilemma.

The discussion touches on Albert Borgmann (allegedly not an cyborg); how tech changes birthday parties; the power and limits of tech as revealed by old school and new school computer chess engines; Zeynep Tufekci and the challenges of resulting from too much information; Martin Heidegger and “standing reserve,” or the modern tendency to see the world as merely resource; tech companies “bio-hacking” customers through data and dopamine; the wonders of nerding out; what changes in a fast-changing society; how tech can cut us off from the world; Wendell Berry and the possibilities of resisting tech; transparency of technology and how that impacts human freedom; Super AI and the pros and cons of both its potential failure or success; complexity in the world and the limitations of human understanding; early onset grumpiness and the risks of catastrophizing; addiction and dopamine hits for kids; the confusion of biological and information signals in the modern environment; Nicholas Carr, “The Shallows,” and tech’s impact on our attention span; substantive, instrumentalist, and pluralist views on technology; therapy robots and the tragedy of their potential effectiveness; approaches to combating drug addiction; and if we can preserve what is good and empower individual decision-making.

In this final episode of Season 01, Jonathan and Jeff wrap things up by establishing their definitive positions on all of the topics discussed over the previous 14 episodes. Just kidding! Instead, they reflect on what they discussed, what were the questions raised, and what contributed to the conversational paths they meandered along. They touch on the value of paying kids to do huge, non-utilitarian projects that they express interest in. They discuss the challenge of coming up with definitions and why a good definition can be so satisfying -- and how definitions can still carry the weight of our implicit biases. They talk about how exciting and interesting "big idea" books can be, and how they are probably also only 6% right (that number was of course mathematically deduced and can be wholly relied upon). They ask whether the words "saliva" and "salience" have a common root. (Postscript: They don't!). Jonathan introduces the important concept of "hard pants" -- a term which Jeff has used in work meetings since the recording of this episode.

During the second half of the show, they talk about the sorts of topics that they might be interested in discussing during Season 02. Some of the topics mentioned include: technology, myth and symbolism, sci-fi and fantasy, culture-making, and The Two Popes. Prior to reviewing these, Jon raises a few remaining questions he has about capitalism. This leads to a discussion about the centrality of "trust" to so many topics. Jeff and Jon talk about the subject of "culture" and what topics might come up under that category -- including sub-culture, media and entertainment, workplace culture, etc. Jeff goes on a slight rant about the impact of the winds of reality upon the boundaries of Christendom and how this is a good thing that has led to new possibilities. And they finish with some exploration of whether they have received any emails over the course of the season. (The jury is still out on this question.)

Speaking of which: if you would like to send us a note, email us at subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com. See you next season!



Show Notes:


A Secular Age by Charles Taylor: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674986916
Sources of the Self by Charles Taylor: https://www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674824263
The Human Condition by Hannah Arendt: https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/H/bo29137972.html
Podcast: "The Meaning of Life" from The Fundamentalists Podcast with Peter Rollins and Elliott Morgan (https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/the-meaning-of-life/id1346820645?i=1000515703145)
After Virtue by Alasdair MacIntyre: https://undpress.nd.edu/9780268035044/after-virtue/
A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller, Jr.: https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/114888/a-canticle-for-leibowitz-by-walter-m-miller-jr/
Movie: Raya and the Last Dragon (https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/raya-and-the-last-dragon/6dyengbx3iYK) 
Dragonlance Chronicles (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dragonlance_Chronicles)
Christ and Culture by H. Richard Niebuhr: https://www.harpercollins.com/products/christ-and-culture-h-richard-niebuhr
Podcast: "Left Behind 2014" from Good Christian Fun, feat. Griffin Newman (https://headgum.com/good-christian-fun/left-behind-2014-with-griffin-newman)



Music Notes:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" Tim Moor on Pixabay

Jonathan and Jeff continue their discussion about the name of this very podcast by talking about the idea of the Subject, but not before trying to discern their apostolic succession to famous philosophers of the past. (It is a bit of a stretch, actually.) But once they get back on to that topic, they explore where philosophy gets the necessary kick in its pants to dig into the subject of the Subject, especially via the Masters of Suspicion (Marx, Freud, and Nietzsche). (The discussion of this term raises questions surrounding Paul Ricoeur's idea of the hermeneutics of suspicion vs the hermeneutics of generosity).

In the second half of the podcast, Jeff and Jonathan start to dig into some of Julia Kristeva's contributions to the Subject along with other psychoanalytical concepts, such as "the mirror stage," Lacan's typology of the Imaginary, the Symbolic, and the Real, Kristeva's idea of "the semiotic" and "the symbolic," and ultimately "the subject of enunciation" (that tries to explain and position itself in the world symbolically) and "the subject-in-process" (that is constantly being constrained and unable to express itself in its entirety clearly in language). They likely overly (and unfairly) merge Lacan's and Kristeva's thought, particularly with regards to the Real. As they slow their roll on this, though, they begin to ask whether it's absolutely necessary for the Real to be horrific, or whether the Real could be experienced as a miracle and how the Real might be a sign of hope. (Although they do not discuss Kristeva's idea of "abjection".)

Jeff and Jonathan also mull the following competition for listeners: Write a short story of 500 words or less that describes what happens when Martin Heidegger, Owen Barfield, and Jean-Paul Sartre look at a tree. (Hint: One of them pukes). Send your entries along (as well as any questions, comments, rants) to subjectsinprocesspodcast@gmail.com.



Show Notes:


The Argument and Action of Plato’s Laws by Leo Strauss (https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/A/bo49994683.html)
The Closing of the American Mind by Alan Bloom (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Closing_of_the_American_Mind)
Deconstruction and the Remainders of Phenomenology by Tilottama Rajan (https://www.sup.org/books/title/?id=3636)
Saving the Appearances by Owen Barfield (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saving_the_Appearances)
Tool-Being by Graham Harman (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graham_Harman)
Freud and Philosophy by Paul Ricoeur and the hermeneutics of suspicion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermeneutics_of_suspicion)
Being Wrong by Kathryn Schulz (https://www.harpercollins.com/products/being-wrong-kathryn-schulz?variant=32123000487970) 
Game: "The Evolution of Trust" (developed by Nicky Case): https://ncase.me/trust/
Revolution in Poetic Language by Julia Kristeva (http://cup.columbia.edu/book/revolution-in-poetic-language/9780231056434)
"The Mirror-Stage as Formative of the Function of the I as Revealed in Psychoanalytic Experience" by Jacques Lacan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_stage; http://www.sholetteseminars.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/LacanMirrorPhase..pdf)
The Birth of Tragedy by Friedrich Nietzsche and the ideas of "The Apollonian" vs "The Dionysian" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollonian_and_Dionysian)

Music Notes:

Theme Music: "What u Thinkin? (Instrumental)" by Wataboi on Pixabay

Intermission Music: "Lazy Morning" Tim Moor on Pixabay