It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine iHeartPodcasts

The world is such a hot mess: every day a new disaster, a new human rights catastrophe. It can just feel… endless. Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch joins us to talk about outrage and trauma and community building - it’s like the greatest hits of modern culture. But mostly, she joins us to talk about art - specifically, the ways that storytelling helps us band together and work towards the world we all want. 
PS: Listen all the way through so you don’t miss Aubrey’s slightly sinister but ultimately functional ideas on hope. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
- The relationship between rage and creation: when there’s so much wrong with the world all you can do is scream
- Why taking action to change things matters - even if your actions won’t save everyone
- Women and anger: hoo boy, it’s a whole thing. 
- Why healing inside trauma is actually kind of… boring. 
- Connecting through the power of storytelling
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

About our guest:
Aubrey Hirsch is the author of Why We Never Talk About Sugar, a collection of short stories, and This Will Be His Legacy, a flash fiction chapbook. Her stories, essays and comics have appeared widely in print and online in places like American Short Fiction, Vox, TIME, The New York Times, The Rumpus, The Toast, and in the New York Times bestselling anthology, Not That Bad. Her essay on trauma and surviving gun violence is a must read. Find it here.
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Aubrey occasionally teaches comics for “non-artists.” Check her TW @aubreyhirsch for announcements. 
Aubrey publishes new comics and essays on Roxane Gay’s substack, The Audacity. 
Aubrey’s written on so many topics relevant to human life. Find a long list of awesome essays on her website, aubreyhirsch.com
Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you look at social media with its reliance on meme-based psychology, you’d think that the Buddhist approach to life is to not let things get to you - that the true spiritual path helps you rise above such limited, unenlightened human feelings like grief, greed, and resentment. 
 
This week on It’s OK, Zen teacher Koshin Paley Ellison is here to tell you that your suffering deserves your attention. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
- How an experience of targeted violence shaped Koshin’s childhood, and what it’s taught him about the suffering of others
- Why it’s healthier to spend time in the “life is suffering” part of the 4 Noble Truths, rather than rushing to the other 3 as solutions
- How to work with the pain and the suffering in your own life, so that it doesn't fester and cause more harm
- Why going to the furniture store looking for milk is only going to lead to disappointment
- Koshin’s new book, Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.
 
About our guest:
Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, and Jungian psychotherapist who has devoted his life to the study and application of psychotherapy and Buddhism. Koshin co-founded the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care, with his husband Chodo Robert Campbell, to transform the culture of care through contemplative practice by meeting illness, aging, and death with compassion and wisdom.
Koshin’s work has been featured in The New York Times, PBS, and CBS Sunday Morning among other media outlets. His newest book is Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Chodo and Koshin joined us in season one of It’s Ok that You’re Not OK. Listen to that episode here. 
 
Learn about the New York Zen Center’s contemplative care program at zencare.org
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
 
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the outside, veteran Jason Kander had everything going for him: successful political career, lovely family, the respect of his peers. But on the inside, he was struggling: nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts were constant companions. Jason joins us to talk about his new book, Invisible Storm, and what it really takes to go from post traumatic stress to post traumatic growth. (Don’t let that ‘post traumatic growth’ turn you away from this episode! There are no shortcuts to happiness here.) 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
- Why most returning vets believe that getting help is great - for other people. 
- The concept of “stolen valor” and how it relates to treatment options for PTSD
- How Jason used shame as a way to give himself the illusion of control 
- What “redemptive heroism” is, and why there’s a much better way to manage PTSD
- Every trauma is valid trauma: avoiding the temptation of comparing emotional injury
 
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

About our guest:
Jason Kander joined the Army National Guard in 2005 after getting a law degree at Georgetown University. He deployed in 2006 to Afghanistan, where his mission was to assess the corruption levels of former Afghan warlords and government leaders. Ten years after serving in Afghanistan, Jason Kander was a rising star in the Democratic Party, exploring a presidential run. But outside of the political spotlight, he was racked by nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts. His book, Invisible Storm, shares the story of his experience with PTSD, and his hopes for anyone who’s survived trauma. 
Jason is the president of the Veterans Community Project, a national nonprofit organization, and the host of Majority 54, one of the nation's most popular political podcasts. Follow him on social media @jasonkander
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
The book Jason mentioned is Tribe by Sebastian Junger
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Errol Pierre is a corporate executive, leader, mentor, and outspoken advocate for healthcare equity in the US and Haiti. HIs book, The Way Up, helps underrepresented individuals from all ethnic backgrounds achieve their professional goals and elevate their careers in today's workplace. 
 
What you probably don’t know is that grief - in one form or another - plays a part in every one of those roles. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
Why a book about climbing the corporate ladder gets the spotlight on a show about grief How little kid Errol’s delayed root canal influenced adult Errol’s entire career Building the equitable world from the ground up: Errol’s work in Haiti  Why making healthcare more accessible will prevent more grief (when it’s avoidable), and reduce suffering (when it’s unavoidable)  Navigating racism in the corporate world   
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.
 
About our guest: 
Dr. Errol Pierre is the Senior Vice President of State Programs at a large non-profit health plan in New York. He provides leadership, mentorship, and guidance to professionals of color across various industries, ensuring the advancement of diverse professionals into leadership positions. He’s also fiercely committed to healthcare equity - building a world where systemic equity is built into the foundation of all new ventures. 
 
Follow Dr. Errol Pierre at @ErrolLPierre on most social platforms or visit errolpierre.com
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Read Errol’s book - The Way Up: Climbing the Corporate Mountain as a Professional of Color
 
For more on grief in the workplace, read “The Burden of Bereavement: Grief is the latest challenge for employers in the coronavirus era” and “How to Talk to a Grieving Customer”
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
 
Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nobody likes to talk about pet loss… but everybody wants to talk about pet loss. What a difficult scenario that is! Veterinary oncologist Dr. Renee Alsarraf, author of Sit, Stay, Heal, joins us to talk about grief, professionalism, and the importance of being human - on the job and off. 
 
In this episode we cover: 
 
The whole truth about loving - and losing - your pets The terrible advice Dr. Renee Alsarraf’s grad school teacher gave her (and why she refused to listen)  Why vets and other professionals should really NOT check their human emotions at the door When it’s time to welcome a new love into your life (human or otherwise) How Dr. Alsarraf’s experience with veterinary oncology did (and didn’t) prepare her for her own cancer diagnosis  
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

About our guest: 
Dr. Renee Alsarraf is a veterinary oncologist, lecturer, and philanthropist. Her book, Sit, Stay, Heal, is a moving and uplifting memoir of an esteemed veterinary oncologist fighting to save her four-legged patients while making sense of her own unexpected cancer diagnosis.
 
Find Dr. Alsarraf on IG @reneealsarraf and learn more about her book at sitstayhealbook.com
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Read Dr. Alsarraf’s book - Sit, Stay, Heal: What Dogs Can Teach Us about Living Well
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
 
Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and 
For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you hide in plain sight?
From trans beauty pageants in the Philippines, to the catwalks of New York City fashion week, to the Ted Talk mainstage – Filipina-American model Geena Rocero has lived an astounding life. This week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK, the author of Horse Barbie: A Memoir shares what it costs to suppress your true self in order to find safety and success, and why joy is powerful medicine. 
Geena Rocero is a trans advocate, speaker, and author of the new book, Horse Barbie.
 
In this episode we cover: 
Why do we have to talk about gender all the time anyway? How can parents support trans children?  The history of trans beauty pageants in the Philippines Why joy - and a sense of humor - are real survival tools  
We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.
 
Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

Related Episodes:
Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle
If I Survived, You Can Too! Author Emi Nietfeld on the Hollowness of the Transformation Narrative
Over and Over Again: Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch on the Power of Storytelling

About our guest:
Geena Rocero is a Filipina-American model, public speaker, author, and trans rights advocate. Ms. Rocero made history as the first trans woman ambassador for Miss Universe Nepal, and the first trans Asian Playboy Playmate of the Year. Her TED Talk, “Why I Must Come Out,” has been viewed over 3.7 million times. She’s an advisory board member of SeeHer, a global coalition working to increase representation and accurate portrayal of all women and girls in marketing, media, and entertainment. 
She’s spoken at the White House and United Nations, and has been featured on CNN, MSNBC, Glamour, Cosmopolitan, Vanity Fair, and Variety. Her book Horse Barbie: A Memoir was named one of the Best Memoirs of 2023 by Elle Magazine. Find her @geenarocero on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter
 
About Megan: 
Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief
 
Additional Resources:
Watch Geena’s TED Talk “Why I Must Come Out”
 
Read Geena’s book - Horse Barbie: A Memoir 
 
Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 
 
Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.