10 episodes

How do underdogs, facing far stronger opponents, sometimes win? In this biweekly podcast, based on their book "Practical Radicals: Seven Strategies to Change the World," Deepak Bhargava and Stephanie Luce talk with some of the leading progressive organizers and thinkers today and share insights crucial for the fight to build a better society.

You can buy the book and find out more about the show at www.practicalradicals.org

Practical Radicals Deepak Bhargava and Stephanie Luce

    • Politics

How do underdogs, facing far stronger opponents, sometimes win? In this biweekly podcast, based on their book "Practical Radicals: Seven Strategies to Change the World," Deepak Bhargava and Stephanie Luce talk with some of the leading progressive organizers and thinkers today and share insights crucial for the fight to build a better society.

You can buy the book and find out more about the show at www.practicalradicals.org

    9. Momentum with Mae Boeve of 350.org

    9. Momentum with Mae Boeve of 350.org

    Sometimes social movements can spread like wildfire. From the sit-ins of the Civil Rights movement to the sea change in support for marriage equality, from the divestment campaign to end apartheid in South Africa to the climate justice movement winning the largest climate bill in history (2022’s Inflation Reduction Act) — the strategy model known as Momentum has proven powerful time and time again. Although Momentum has helped movements succeed for centuries, the framework has gained increased attention in recent years as the internet has made it possible to organize action at a larger and larger scale.  In 2014, a new institute called Momentum began training movement leaders in this strategy. And in 2016, Mark and Paul Engler formalized the momentum approach in their valuable book This Is An Uprising: How Nonviolent Revolt is Shaping the 21st Century. 

    In this episode, Deepak interviews May Boeve, Executive Director of the climate justice group 350.org. Founded in 2008, by Bill McKibben and a small group of college students, including May, 350.org is now active in 26 countries and works with a volunteer network of 500 organizations. May and organizers at 350.org used the model before the framework had been written down. They believe that the breakthrough social transformation promised by Momentum makes it an essential strategy to confront the existential threat posed by global warming. 

    May describes how 350.org’s momentum-driven campaign to stop the Keystone XL pipeline in 2011 provided a crucial morale boost after the stinging legislative defeat of climate legislation in the Obama years — and marked, in the words of one observer, “the first time the environmental and climate movement [got] serious about power.” 350.org’s subsequent divestment campaign against fossil fuels illustrated the power of “distributed action” and putting pressure on key institutions like foundations, banks, and local governments. It also provided an onramp for ordinary people to get involved and become leaders. 

    Early in her organizing career, May had been a proponent of “horizontalism,” the philosophy that movements should be leaderless, but she now rejects that notion and explains how momentum-driven movements can combine mass engagement with effective leadership. May and Deepak conclude by considering the promise and peril of online organizing, how to deal with pathologies in movement culture, and 350.org’s shift from simply “saying no” to fossil fuels to also “saying yes” to climate change solutions.

    Links:May mentions Maurice Mitchell’s highly influential 2022 essay “Building Resilient Organizations,” a must-read for everyone in progressive politics. And now, there’s a workbook, too.

    • 58 min
    8. Inside-Outside Strategies with Felicia Wong

    8. Inside-Outside Strategies with Felicia Wong

    In the right circumstances, progressive groups can work with progressive insiders in government to win big policy changes. In this episode, we consider “inside-outside campaigns,” including what makes them possible and some of the inevitable tensions that they create, for example about when and how to compromise when a coalition doesn’t have enough power to win all its demands. Stephanie and Deepak reflect on their own experiences with living wage campaigns and federal policy, including the campaign to pass the Affordable Care Act in the Obama years. Deepak then talks to Felicia Wong, who played a key role in making the Biden economic agenda much more progressive than most observers expected. Felicia runs the Roosevelt Institute, which has worked to overturn the dominant neoliberal consensus in Washington. Felicia was also among the most progressive members on the Biden transition team and oversaw the appointment of over a hundred officials in key government positions. In a wide-ranging conversation, she explains how Occupy Wall Street, the Fight for $15, and coalitions pushing for a Green New Deal and expanded investments in childcare and home care reshaped the terrain, and how work at the level of ideas, narrative, and organizing came together to shift the parameters of the possible on economic policy. Deepak and Felicia also explore the concept of “policy feedback loops” – how policy can be a vehicle for altering power relations in society, and why the right has been better at this in recent years than progressives.



    Episode 8 transcript

    • 1 hr 17 min
    7. Electoral Change with Maurice Mitchell

    7. Electoral Change with Maurice Mitchell

    Episode 7: Electoral Strategies with Maurice Mitchell

    Many progressives are cynical about electoral politics. But our guest today explains why engaging in electoral politics is crucial for building the kind of society we want. Maurice Mitchell is the National Director of the Working Families Party, a savvy, independent political organization that has given progressives greater voice and leverage in cities and states around the country, most notably by taking advantage of fusion voting. Maurice describes his own trajectory, from being a local organizer to a leader in the Movement for Black Lives, who ultimately came to see movements alone as limited without the organizing force that a political party provides. 



    He offers an insightful analysis of our present conjuncture, shaped by a ruthless right committed to minority rule through the courts, decades of neoliberalism, and an information environment that breeds atomization and loneliness. As neoliberalism’s legitimacy crumbles, and the post-neoliberal, authoritarian right speaks to popular concerns, Maurice argues that WFP’s strategy of winning elections to achieve governing power and engaging everyday people in the work of governance offers a hopeful path forward. 



    Maurice concludes by reflecting on the questions that fill him with the same excitement he had as a young organizer: “What are you building? Who are you choosing to be? And who are you choosing to be with?”



    Links:

    Maurice’s 2022 highly influential essay “Building Resilient Organizations” is a must-read for everyone in progressive politics. And now, there’s a workbook, too.

    We mentioned Leadership for Democracy and Social Justice, a terrific new training institute at CUNY for early- and mid-career organizers where Maurice has been a regular guest instructor. 

    Maurice’s argument about the present conjuncture compliments one made by Shahrzad Shams, Deepak Bhargava, and Harry W. Hanbury in a new report for the Roosevelt Institute: The Cultural Contradictions of Neoliberalism: The Longing for an Alternative Order and the Future of Multiracial Democracy in an Age of Authoritarianism

    • 56 min
    6. Narrative Shift with Cristina Jimenez Moreta and Alan Jenkins

    6. Narrative Shift with Cristina Jimenez Moreta and Alan Jenkins

    In the past two decades, progressives have gotten far more savvy at the strategy we call “narrative shift,” learning how to challenge the dominant story and change the common sense on key issues. For example, on same-sex marriage, activists drove a sea change in public sentiment — from 27% support in 1996 to 71% in 2023. And research shows that Occupy Wall Street, which some criticized as a “blip,” was, as one organizer put it, actually a “spark” that ignited mass movements for economic justice, from the Fight for $15 and a Union to the campaigns of Bernie Sanders, and changed how everyday people think about economic inequality. In this episode, we hear from two experts about how to achieve narrative shifts.



    As co-founder and former head of United We Dream, the largest immigrant youth-led organization in the country, Cristina Jimenez Moreta, was instrumental in crafting a narrative of immigrant pride, dignity, and belonging that helped bring about Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals (DACA), providing protection against deportation for hundreds of thousands of young immigrants. Cristina is now a Distinguished Lecturer at CUNY and co-chair of Leadership for Democracy and Social Justice, where she mentors young and emerging leaders and encourages them to think through hard questions like how to make the most of upsurge moments like the Movement for Black Lives, how to harness the power of new technologies like AI, and how to rethink our organizing models to build a bigger “we.”



    Our next guest is Alan Jenkins, a civil rights lawyer and co-founder of The Opportunity Agenda, an organization devoted to narrative shift strategies. Now a Harvard Law professor, Alan has co-authored the 1/6 comic book series, which imagines what might have happened if the MAGA insurrection had succeeded. Alan unpacks the differences between messaging, framing, and narrative shifts, and gives examples of how conservatives and progressives have succeeded in changing the terms of debates. In a wide-ranging conversation, he considers how far we’ve come since Ronald Reagan suggested we “open the border both ways,” how grassroots activists at the 2008 Heartland Presidential Forum in Iowa steered candidate Obama toward a rhetoric of “community values,” and how comic books and interventions in popular culture can help foster the kinds of conversations our troubled nation needs.



    Did Occupy Wall Street Make a Difference?, by Ruth Milkman, Stephanie Luce, and Penny Lewis, The Nation, October 4/11, 2021

    Changing the Subject: A Bottom-Up Account of Occupy Wall Street in New York City, by Ruth Milkman, Stephanie Luce, and Penny Lewis, January 2013

    • 1 hr 26 min
    5. Disruptive Movements with Frances Fox Piven

    5. Disruptive Movements with Frances Fox Piven

    In this episode, we explore the strategy of disruption and talk with one of its leading theorists and practitioners, the legendary scholar and activist Frances Fox Piven. Stephanie and Deepak begin by distinguishing protest from disruption, two types of action that are often confused. They consider famous instances of disruption, like the mass actions on the Standing Rock Indian Reservation that blocked the Dakota Access Pipeline, and lesser-known ones, like the 1975 “Women’s Day Off” that helped win equal rights for women in Iceland. They also reflect on how overdogs use disruption, citing the “Brooks Brothers Riot,” a protest by GOP operatives that may have tipped the 2000 election and presaged the insurrection of January 6th, 2021. Then, in a wide-ranging interview, Frances Fox Piven argues that “the most important achievement of elites is to persuade people that they don’t have power.” But, she explains,  ordinary people in complex societies have enormous “potential power,” the power to disrupt by stopping work, breaking the law, or simply refusing to cooperate. Invoking a chapter of history she and her late husband, Richard Coward, helped write, Piven recalls the Welfare Rights Movement, when poor women of color used their disruptive power to get benefits they had been denied and hugely increased the amount of money spent of welfare in the U.S. Frances, Deepak, and Stephanie also discuss the potential for using disruptive power today, the ways that too much organization can stifle movements, and the essential role of exuberance, ecstasy, and even “sexuality” in movement politics.

    • 45 min
    4. Base-Building in Community Organizing with Make the Road NY’s José Lopez and Ángeles Solis

    4. Base-Building in Community Organizing with Make the Road NY’s José Lopez and Ángeles Solis

    In the Spring of 2021, dozens of immigrant New Yorkers, mostly women, launched a hunger strike that lasted 23 days and was the climax of a campaign to win an unprecedented $2.1 billion relief package for workers who had been excluded from unemployment benefits, federal stimulus checks, and rent relief. At the time, many thought the campaign’s demands were out of reach, but as our guests Ángeles Solis and José Lopez of Make the Road New York explain, years of base-building made this seemingly impossible victory a reality — one that spawned similar demands in eleven other states. Founded in 1997, Make the Road New York, as José says, “focuses on the intersecting challenges that working-class and immigrant New Yorkers face every single day” — and with 27,000 members, it has become a powerful force for justice in the state. During the pandemic, a quarter of Make the Road New York members could not afford to pay rent or put food on the table, and ninety lost their lives. But desperation fueled a bold project of relational organizing, recruiting people in food pantries, leveraging mutual aid to build power, and calling out billionaire profiteers and tax cheats. Before the interview with Ángeles and José, Deepak and Stephanie contrast the approach to base-building in the labor movement (as covered in episode 3) with base- building in the community organizing tradition, drawing on four principles from legendary organizer Arnie Graf’s book Lessons Learned: Stories from a Lifetime of Organizing. They also consider how community organizations can find the right balance between radical vision and practical change in the here and now.



    Episode 4 transcript

    • 55 min

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