22 min

EP16 - Performance marketing vs brand building with Charlie Grinnell and Jeff Greenspoon CMA Connect

    • Marketing

We have our first guest host at the CMA Connect podcast!
Jeff Greenspoon is President of Global Solutions, CEO of Canada for Dentsu International and a member of the Board of Directors here at the Canadian Marketing Association.
In part one of this short episode arc on data-driven marketing, he’s joined by guest Charlie Grinnell - CEO, Right Metric to discuss how to overcome digital growth challenges in today's climate and beyond.
They dig deep into our obsession with data-driven marketing and define the difference between the good and the great. “Over the next 5-10 years, we're going to see this kind of convergence of internal and external data coming together to give marketers a more holistic picture of what's actually going on, which is going to arm them to make the right decision for their business”, says Charlie
Here’s some of what they discuss:
1. How to separate what's good from what's great (4:20)
What is nice to have versus the things that really make an impact on business today? What we can learn from big data on how people view the world and interact with it, and use that to challenge some of our societal biases. “Maybe you thought you had a good idea of how things work. But what works today isn't necessarily going to translate to a different industry or a different time.”
2. The obsession with data driven marketing (7:11)
Data allows us to quantify human behavior but data is nothing without data-backed insight. Insight is the area that frontier marketers lean into. “I think a lot of marketers have focused on the value of data, and less on the value of data-backed insight. That needs to be top of mind for all marketers. To get you to that actionable insight or recommendation that makes sense through the business lens.”
3. Niching down and targeting micro audiences (13:13)
With new software updates being implemented yearly with updates like the removal of cookies with iOS 14.5., marketers are beginning to lose visibility. Rather than broadening our targets, marketers are adapting and niching down by targeting specific communities, being more thoughtful, tailored, and strategic.
4. Brand building vs performance marketing. Are they the same now? (15:53)
Jeff and Charlie agree that the short answer is there is a difference between the two, but they do need to be interlinked together. “I think marketing is art for the sake of commerce, commerce being the keyword. Taking that art and science and building it together, that's where we see the best marketing campaigns. Perhaps the best known example that comes to mind is Spotify’s year-end review. Everyone loves when that comes out. It's taking the science side of marketing data, and merging art into it. And every year, it blows up with people sharing. I think that's brilliant.”
5. Critical ammunition for marketers (20:56)
Why we have to remember that “every experience customers have is a brand experience - whether it's there to build preference, there to build salience, or there to build a commerce interaction and make a sale”, says Jeff.
Charlie speaks of the importance of breaking down silos and recounts his experience leading social media at an enterprise. “I was joined at the hip with our head of eCommerce marketing, because she was overseeing email. Previously that wasn't a thing. I wanted to know everything about the behavior on our emails, because chances are it's the same person who's on Instagram or Pinterest with us. It’s about taking those insights and deploying them more holistically. It’s critical ammunition for marketers to be able to plan activities that are going to give their brand a chance to be successful.”
To hear more 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect🎧.
Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.
Learn more about Charlie and RightMetric here

We have our first guest host at the CMA Connect podcast!
Jeff Greenspoon is President of Global Solutions, CEO of Canada for Dentsu International and a member of the Board of Directors here at the Canadian Marketing Association.
In part one of this short episode arc on data-driven marketing, he’s joined by guest Charlie Grinnell - CEO, Right Metric to discuss how to overcome digital growth challenges in today's climate and beyond.
They dig deep into our obsession with data-driven marketing and define the difference between the good and the great. “Over the next 5-10 years, we're going to see this kind of convergence of internal and external data coming together to give marketers a more holistic picture of what's actually going on, which is going to arm them to make the right decision for their business”, says Charlie
Here’s some of what they discuss:
1. How to separate what's good from what's great (4:20)
What is nice to have versus the things that really make an impact on business today? What we can learn from big data on how people view the world and interact with it, and use that to challenge some of our societal biases. “Maybe you thought you had a good idea of how things work. But what works today isn't necessarily going to translate to a different industry or a different time.”
2. The obsession with data driven marketing (7:11)
Data allows us to quantify human behavior but data is nothing without data-backed insight. Insight is the area that frontier marketers lean into. “I think a lot of marketers have focused on the value of data, and less on the value of data-backed insight. That needs to be top of mind for all marketers. To get you to that actionable insight or recommendation that makes sense through the business lens.”
3. Niching down and targeting micro audiences (13:13)
With new software updates being implemented yearly with updates like the removal of cookies with iOS 14.5., marketers are beginning to lose visibility. Rather than broadening our targets, marketers are adapting and niching down by targeting specific communities, being more thoughtful, tailored, and strategic.
4. Brand building vs performance marketing. Are they the same now? (15:53)
Jeff and Charlie agree that the short answer is there is a difference between the two, but they do need to be interlinked together. “I think marketing is art for the sake of commerce, commerce being the keyword. Taking that art and science and building it together, that's where we see the best marketing campaigns. Perhaps the best known example that comes to mind is Spotify’s year-end review. Everyone loves when that comes out. It's taking the science side of marketing data, and merging art into it. And every year, it blows up with people sharing. I think that's brilliant.”
5. Critical ammunition for marketers (20:56)
Why we have to remember that “every experience customers have is a brand experience - whether it's there to build preference, there to build salience, or there to build a commerce interaction and make a sale”, says Jeff.
Charlie speaks of the importance of breaking down silos and recounts his experience leading social media at an enterprise. “I was joined at the hip with our head of eCommerce marketing, because she was overseeing email. Previously that wasn't a thing. I wanted to know everything about the behavior on our emails, because chances are it's the same person who's on Instagram or Pinterest with us. It’s about taking those insights and deploying them more holistically. It’s critical ammunition for marketers to be able to plan activities that are going to give their brand a chance to be successful.”
To hear more 🎧 tune in to CMA Connect🎧.
Stay connected and receive the latest marketing news and industry trends by visiting thecma.ca and signing up for a myCMA account.
Learn more about Charlie and RightMetric here

22 min