Brief Summary: The program focused on a discussion with Roger Launius, a retired NASA historian, about his book covering NASA’s history from its origins as NACA to the present day. The conversation explored NASA’s relationship with commercial space industry, historical organizational changes, and the challenges of accessing NASA’s historical records and archives. The discussion also covered various technical and political aspects of space exploration, including decision-making processes, military roles in space, and the evolution of NASA’s approach to partnerships and innovation. Roger shared his thoughts on the future of space exploration, expressing uncertainty about the timeline for lunar missions and human presence on Mars. Space Show team participants included myself, John Jossy, Bill Gowan, Marshall Martin, John Hunt, Dr. Ajay Kothari, and Phil Swan. Detailed Summary: As host I welcomed Dr. Roger Launius back to the Space Show to discuss his new book, “From NACA to NASA to Now.” Launius explained that the book, published in 2025, provides a concise history of NASA from its origins as the National Advisory Committee for Aeronautics (NACA) in 1915 to its transformation into NASA in 1958. He highlighted the ongoing role of NASA’s legacy research centers in aeronautical research today. Launius also discussed the evolution of the aerospace industry, emphasizing that the distinction between “old space” and “new space” is complex and not clearly defined. He noted that private sector activities in space have a long history, dating back to the 1950s, and that NASA’s approach to commercial partnerships has evolved over time, particularly with the creation of separate entities to handle launch services in the 1990s. Bill Gowan and Roger discussed the evolution of NASA’s relationship with commercial space, noting that while NASA has always relied on commercial industry for spacecraft design and construction, there has been a shift towards non-cost-plus contracts. Roger highlighted that while NASA innovations have contributed to commercial space advancements, the designs are not entirely independent of NASA’s influence. They also explored the partisan nature of NASA’s early years, with Roger explaining that the Apollo program faced political challenges from both the left and right, and was subject to budget cuts after its initial success. The discussion focused on the impact of the government shutdown on NASA’s historical resources and archives. Roger explained that while NASA facilities are currently closed, their websites and online historical resources remain accessible, though not updated. He detailed the complex federal records system, noting that most NASA records are stored at the National Archives in Washington, D.C., and other federal record centers across the country, with access often delayed by years, especially for recent or classified materials. Marshall inquired about accessing Elon Musk’s communications with NASA and the President, to which Roger clarified that such recent records would not be available in the National Archives yet and suggested using interviews and publicly released documents for journalistic research on recent events. Roger explained that separating historical facts from salesmanship in space exploration is a challenging task due to the varied motivations behind statements. He emphasized the importance of understanding these motivations and balancing contradictory perspectives. David inquired about the feasibility of modernizing old Apollo lunar lander plans, to which Roger confirmed that NASA possesses extensive technical drawings and records of past hardware in federal records centers and has historically allowed access for analysis. Roger also described the difficult transition from NACA to NASA in 1958, highlighting resistance from the military, particularly over the transfer of the von Braun team and the Army Ballistic Missile Agency’s resources, which was a prolonged and contentious process. Our discussion addressed historical NASA consolidations and organizational changes, with Roger explaining that efforts to close or merge NASA facilities have been ongoing since the 1960s, though political opposition from congressional delegations has typically prevented closures. The conversation also covered the history of the National Space Council, which was established in 1958 but became less active after the 1960s, particularly under Nixon, before being revived by the Trump administration. John Hunt raised questions about military roles in space, noting how the Army developed its own ballistic missile programs while the Air Force maintained separate capabilities, highlighting ongoing challenges in service roles and missions. Roger explained that Space Council issues are now handled through the Office of Science and Technology Policy in the White House. He discussed the difficulty in finding detailed information about NASA’s decision-making process for certain projects, such as the Mars Sample Return mission. Roger mentioned that some individuals, like George Lowe and Bob Siemens, kept detailed records of meetings and decisions, which are now available at Rensselaer and MIT respectively. David asked if there would be a “post-NASA era,” to which Roger responded that there is no known impetus for such a transition. The conversation also touched on the public and intellectual resistance to using Nazi engineers, like Wernher von Braun, in the early American space program, and the debate within the federal government about this issue. Roger discussed the history of supersonic flight, clarifying that Chuck Yeager did not demand a million dollars to fly the X1 and that Slick Chalmers flew multiple supersonic flights. He also addressed a controversy about whether the F-86 pilot beat Yeager’s speed record, noting that the evidence was unreliable. Roger emphasized the importance of data-driven decision-making in engineering, using examples from the Challenger disaster and flight readiness reviews. Marshall inquired about decision-making processes, and Roger highlighted the need for comprehensive data and proper training in engineering education. The group discussed historical space program decisions, focusing on the Challenger launch and the X-30 National Aerospace Plane program. Roger explained that while data existed showing risks of cold-weather launches, the decision-making process was complex and the data wasn’t presented clearly, leading to the catastrophic failure. The discussion also covered the X-30 program, which was announced by Reagan in the 1980s but ended in the early 90s due to technological challenges and cost concerns, though some research continued. Roger discussed the NACA’s contributions to aeronautics, highlighting its approach to research and development. He explained how the NACA hired young engineers and provided them with advanced research tools, such as the variable density wind tunnel, which led to significant advancements in airframe and wing design. Roger also mentioned the NACA’s involvement in rocket research during World War II, which eventually led to the establishment of NASA and the transition of key personnel to the new space agency. Roger discussed his friendship with Dr. John Anderson and shared details about a 2009 incident involving Mike Griffin and Laurie Garver at a launch party for John Logsdon’s book. He explained that Mike Griffin expressed concerns about Laurie Garver’s involvement in the Constellation program, emphasizing her need to step back from technical details. Roger also highlighted Laurie Garver’s significant role in transitioning NASA to the commercial crew program, advocating for private sector involvement in space exploration. The conversation touched on the challenges NASA faced in the 1990s, including the cancellation of the X-33 program and the search for alternatives to the Space Shuttle. Concluding Summary: The meeting featured an interview with Roger, a retired NASA historian, who discussed his book on the history of NASA and its predecessor organizations. Roger shared his plans for future conferences and mentioned his current residence in Auburn, Alabama. The discussion also covered the availability of Roger’s book for free download from NASA. The conversation ended with thanks to the show’s sponsors and participants, and a reminder about an upcoming open lines session. Special thanks to our sponsors:Northrup Grumman, American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics, Helix Space in Luxembourg, Celestis Memorial Spaceflights, Astrox Corporation, Dr. Haym Benaroya of Rutgers University, The Space Settlement Progress Blog by John Jossy, The Atlantis Project, and Artless Entertainment Our Toll Free Line for Live Broadcasts: 1-866-687-7223 (Not in service at this time) For real time program participation, email Dr. Space at: drspace@thespaceshow.com for instructions and access. The Space Show is a non-profit 501C3 through its parent, One Giant Leap Foundation, Inc. To donate via Pay Pal, use: To donate with Zelle, use the email address: david@onegiantleapfoundation.org. 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