Whit's End: Real People, Hard Questions Whitney Scarborough

In this episode, I have the privilege of sitting down with bestselling author and speaker Gary Thomas.



He and his wife Lisa have been married 40 years and have 3 kids and 2 grandkids. He actually lived in Houston near my home base in La Grange for about 12 years, but now resides in Colorado, which we joked about as a great place to end up after the heat and humidity of Texas.



Gary has written many well known books and phenomenal resources, including a Sacred Marriage, Authentic Faith, and Sacred Pathways. But the book we dive into in this conversation is called When to Walk Away.



Folks, this book was groundbreaking for me - as a people pleaser, I believed that any toxic person I encountered who didn’t change through our friendship must be some failure on my part. This book shifted my perspective in such needed ways not merely based on his opinion or experience, but a unique look into Christ’s interactions with people as we see in the gospels.



Today’s conversation is challenging, insightful, and filled with scripture, It may even shift your thinking on what our lives are intended to be about as Christ-followers made for eternal purpose and called to bear much fruit. I recommend taking notes on this one!



We dive in with Gary’s 1-minute elevator pitch of his book When to Walk Away. 



Show Notes:


website: https://garythomas.com/
substack: https://garythomasbooks.substack.com/


IG: @garythomasbooks
FB: @ Author Gary Thomas


When to Walk Away by Gary Thomas


Nehemiah 8:10, “The joy of the Lord is your strength.”
Matthew 6:33, “But seek first the kingdom of god and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.”
Joshua 24:15, “Choose this day whom you will serve.”
1 Corinthians 14:32, “The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets.”
John 10:10, “The thief comes only to kill and steal and destroy. I came that they may have life and have it abundantly.”
Colossians 3:8,12, “But now you must put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and obscene talk from your mouth… Put on then, as God's chosen ones, holy and beloved, compassionate hearts, kindness, humility, meekness, and patience”
Matthew 7:6, “Do not give dogs what is holy, and do not throw your pearls before pigs, lest they trample them underfoot and turn to attack you.”
Matthew 8 - Jesus delivers a man from demonic possession.
Matthew 10:34-36, “Do not think that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I have not come to bring peace, but a sword. For I have come to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a person's enemies will be those of his own household.”
Matthew 12:48-50, "He replied to him, ‘Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?’ Pointing to his disciples, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers. For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.'"


Luke 11:27, “As he said these things, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breasts at which you nursed!”
Matthew 28:19-20, “Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
2 Timothy 2:2, “And the things you have heard me say in the presence of many witnesses entrust to reliable people who will also be qualified to teach others.”
John 15:8, “By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit and so prove to be my disciples.”




---

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/whits-end/message

Kathleen Wadkins lives with her husband, 2 kids and their dog in eastern Iowa. In her words, “it actually exists!”



Kathleen is the head of content at The Pour Over, which aims to be a politically neutral, Christ-first news source. When you subscribe to The Pour Over, you’ll get an email newsletter 3x a week with a brief overview of some of the world’s biggest stories.



I found the Pour Over about 6 months ago while walking with a friend. We were talking about how I wanted to do a better job of staying up with current events but didn’t want to get sucked in to an unhealthy extent or consume news in a way that made me fearful, shortsighted, and/or emotionally fatigued. Enter The Pour Over.



This interview touches on how to read controversial news while keeping an eternal perspective, as well as seeking openness to correction and unconditional love. How do we respond when we're offended? How do we speak about people who are not present? Do we use our words to dignify or villify our enemies? Are we allowing the comment section on social media to be a petri dish that cultivates an US vs. THEM mentality?



We pick up this conversation on how Christians are called to be set apart in a world that thrives on division, offense, and controversy.



Show Notes/References: 


thepourover.org


The Pour Over core values - brevity, levity, dignity, and clarity


“By this everyone will know you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.” -John 13:35


IG: @ thepourovernews


FB: @ The Pour Over



Memorable Quotes:


“The Pour Over exists to be a trustworthy news resource guiding people toward eternal hope.”


“This topic, this story, might be really big right now, but our goal at TPO is to keep the big things big and the small things small, and in light of eternity it probably won’t matter in 1,000 years, but your relationship with God will.” 


“One of the biggest opportunities we have as Christians is to reflect God’s light to other people.”


“If someone was curious about how Christians are approaching the biggest topics of today and they came to our comment section, what would they find there? Would it be love and acceptance? Would it be gentle conviction? Would it be grace and truth? Or would it be keyboard warriors?”


“We shouldn’t be willing to sacrifice relationships in order to win arguments.”


“How can over half a million people choosing to have an eternal perspective about an election year impact the world around them?” 


“People are quick to make a judgment that we’re on a different team.”




---

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/whits-end/message

Today I get to sit down with my dear friend, Alisha Keating. She’s a wife to Nate and mom to Corban and Simon. She works as pediatric nurse practitioner and has a deep, beautiful soul.  We talk about everything from why it's worth it to travel with kids to the importance of getting involved in the local church. We dive into the grief of losing children by miscarriage and thoughts post-pandemic from her medical perspective.



The friendship I have with Alisha is one of those that was forged in a really painful season for both of us. This is both a teary, heavy conversation and one in which we laugh and reminisce about the awkward way we met. 



IG: @nateandalisha, @ajkeating, @natekeating



Memorable Quotes:


“I think it’s ok to let people sit in their pain for a time and sit in it with them instead of just encouraging them there’s an end to the pain, because God is with us in the pain.”


“How in the midst of the pain and sin and just the curse of the earth, how do I still acknowledge that God is still on His throne and still has a plan despite the fact that we sorta screwed that up in the garden?”


“I think sometimes loss or pain can actually give us that eternal perspective that wow, we are here for just this temporary time and how am I being a good steward of my love for my children, my love for my community? And it gives almost that healthy urgency that I don’t number the days of my children, God does. I don’t number the days of my own life, God does.”


“The reality is only you get to be their parent, and only you have a voice in their life as their mom or as their dad and how are you using your voice in their life.”


“Grieving is not a lack of faith or gratitude but it’s merely a recognition that what we have lost is precious.”


“If Jesus himself says that he is going to defeat sin and death, he’s going - ‘this is an enemy only I can take on.’”


“My dad sat with me and cried and said, ‘It’s good to grieve.’”


“Humans are not made for isolation.”


“I don’t think the pandemic necessarily created new problems as much as it revealed the underlying issues.”


“It is actually good for me, for Nate, for our marriage, for me to say - ‘these are the things that I need!’”







---

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/whits-end/message

Vivian Mabuni is an author, speaker, and fellow podcaster who lives in southern California. As an Asian American woman, Vivian is passionate about leading and discipling and does this as she shares her authentic faith. She has written several books, including one we dive into in this episode, Open Hands, Willing Heart.

She and her husband Darin have been married for 32 years. They have 3 grown children and are very much enjoying this stage of spending time with adult kids! She works with a ministry called Cru and speaks with Family Life, as well as serves on the Board of Trustees for Denver Seminary.

I am so eager to share this conversation with you on a life of surrender, living with fresh faith, and what discipleship looks like. We talk about everything from surviving cancer to valuing ethnic heritage to building a thriving marriage. Let’s dive in!

Show Notes:


Open Hands, Willing Heart by Vivian Mabuni


John 15:4-11 - “Abide in me, and I in you…”


Vivian’s Discipleship message at If:Gathering - https://youtu.be/QhexfN4d8Q8?si=iTz-3cD8MG_YOAj-


Website: https://www.vivianmabuni.com/


Podcast Someday is Here: https://www.vivianmabuni.com/someday-is-here


Family Life Marriage conferences: https://www.familylife.com/weekend-to-remember/


IG: @vivmabuni






“Would we live a life of surrender. When we have open hands, God is free to put things in our lives, remove things from our lives. We don’t have control over those things. We can grip our hands or we can open our hands.”


“God is released to move in our lives when we have a willing heart. And that’s one that says, ‘I’m ALL IN.’”


“As hard as cancer was, there was still an underlying confidence…I knew the Lord’s got me.”


“I think that’s what fresh faith looks like - that we are continually having to step out and trust Him in ways where we can’t figure it out.”


“Our ethnic heritage does affect how we do life.”


“The way that Jesus wanted us to reach the world was impacting people who would impact people who would impact people.” 


“Ministry is not life. My kids are not my life. Jesus is life.”


“There’s a difference between impression and impact.”


“Anything that’s worthwhile requires work.”






---

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/whits-end/message

As we close out Season 3 of Whit's End, we look toward the disciplines we want to put into practice this fall. At Woven, we are big on Bible study and think it's important to always know the WHY behind our WHAT. So today we take a closer look at some scriptures that give meaning to what we practice. What are spiritual disciplines? Why does Bible study matter? What is our responsibility in being transformed?

Verses:

Hebrews 12:11 - “For the moment, all discipline seems painful rather than pleasant, but later it yields the peaceful fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.” Romans 12:1-2 - “I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.”

Quotes:

"Spiritual disciplines are an opportunity to partner with God for change, to consistently make room for the Holy Spirit to transform us from the inside out."

"If we only live a surface type of faith where God’s Word figuratively hangs on our walls or sits on pillows in our home but isn’t integrated into the deepest parts of ourselves then we cheat ourselves out of some of the richest blessings God has in store for us. Consistently partnering with the Holy Spirit for change is hard work and also deeply fulfilling work."The phrase 'be transformed by the renewal of your minds' tells us it is both something that happens to us and something that we are actively engaged in."

Closing Prayer:

God I want to respond to you in worship by making my whole self available to you, and I’m trusting that as I engage with spiritual disciplines of Bible study, of prayer, of time alone with you, of slowing down my pace, you will produce fruit in my life. You will change me in the way I can’t change myself. You will grow me in the ways I’m powerless to create or bring about. 




---

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/whits-end/message

Lindsey Hicks joins us from Houston, Texas to share the miraculous story of watching God revive her 4-month old son. She talks about the abiding presence of God through the darkest moments, growing in patience and grace in the grieving process, and allowing gratitude to push against the bitterness and cynicism that threatens to harden our hearts. She lives in the tension between having seen God work in mighty ways and the reality that her son’s life is forever altered. 

Show Notes

Gentle and Lowly by Dane Ortlund

James 1:1

Proverbs 3:5-7

Jeremiah 17:9

2 Corinthians 12:9

Quotes

“We know there’s a plan beyond our plan and our little life. God gave us a reassurance of His presence consistently.”

“I knew how deceitful my heart was being and I had to pray for compassion.”

“What God ultimately promises is His presence.”

“I knew my only source of help and strength was the Lord.” 

“I could not get over my bitterness, my sadness, my self-righteousness without Him.”

“I don’t have to be hard on myself for my weaknesses because of who He is and who I am in Him.”








---

Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/whits-end/message