Listen, Learn & Love Hosted by Richard Ostler Richard Ostler

My friends Todd and Tanya Hughes (live in Ventura County CA, married for 29 years, recently divorced, still best friends) join us to share their story. Todd (who recently turned 50) shares his background growing up gay in the church, and all the shame and self-hate that came with that. Todd and Tanya met on their missions and ended up getting married, after Todd told her he was gay during their courtship.

Todd talks about how church teachings have evolved and how raising a queer and transgender son helped Todd learn that he is an intentionally created gay Son of God, and that God loves all of him. Over the past few years, that has led Todd and Tanya to a decision to end their marriage—but remain friends (including still sitting on the same church pew together). Tanya and Todd talk about their beautiful marriage, parenting a transgender son, and how they continue to help/support each other.

Both Tanya and Todd have insights to support spouses of mixed-orientation marriages and better support/love/understand those whose marriages end. Tanya talks about how she still has hope for her “eternal family” and how it just has been reconfigured.

Todd (who still actively serves in the church) talks about his intentions to date and then marry a man and participate as much as possible in the Church. Neither Todd nor Tanya are inviting others to a similar path—just bravely sharing their story in hopes to help others walking a similar road and to help all of us better love our fellow Latter-day Saints.

Thank you, Todd and Tanya, for being on the podcast. You are two remarkable, courageous, and faithful Latter-day Saints. Your courage to share your story helps so many.

Todd’s e-mail: thousandoaksgathering@gmail.com

Social media:
IG (Todd): @todd.hughes.in.ca
IG (Tanya): @tanyainsocal

Latest Church Teachings: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics/same-sex-attraction

Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

**This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**

My friend Jeremy Kerrigan (LDS convert, married father of 5, Arizona native, Chiropractor, photographer) joins us to share his story. Jeremy talks about being aware of this same-sex attraction most of his life but not fully addressing it until he came out to his wife in late 2023 (good experience). Once that box was open, Jeremy talks about his journey of deconstructing and then reconstructing his life going forward. Much of that included dark days of depression, anxiety and considering suicide. Jeremy also shares all his efforts (and other good people in his life) to help him find hope again and to better understand who he was created to be.

Jeremy talks about getting in a healthier space with hope, peace, and also receiving powerful personal revelation that “God loves gay Jeremy.” Jeremy talks about fully accepting himself and how that takes away shame and allows him to be authentic. Jeremy talks about how we are all created in the “image of God.”

Jeremy talks about his future and how he is purposefully going slow and becoming his best self before making major decisions. Jeremy also talks about his podcast called “The Empowerful Health Podcast” (see show notes).

Thank you, Jeremy, for your courage to be on the podcast and share your story. You give hope for others walking a similar road and those who are suicidal—and provides principals and perspectives to better love, see, and support each other. You are a good man. Honored to have you on the podcast.

Links:

Jeremy’s Podcast: podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/empowerful-health/id1649852833

Jeremy’s Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jeremykerriganaz/

Jeremy Kerrigan E-mail: jskerrigan@gmail.com

Facebook Group to support LGBTQ Latter-day Saints: www.facebook.com/groups/1433556613672143

**This podcast mentions suicide. If you are suicidal, please call/text chat 988**

My friend Glen Bass (father of two, lives in Utah County, left church 2018, rebaptized 2024, divorced after 15 years of marriage) joins us to share his story. Glen talks about his early years figuring out he is not 100% heterosexual. Glen talks about his mission and being disfellowshipped for falling in love with his companion/physical relationship. Glen talks about navigating the pain/shame/humiliation of that experience and the positive people in his life that kept him going.

Glen talks about returning to full fellowship and finding his wife (including opening up about his SSA during their courtship). Glen talks about how that married ultimately ended (still on good terms) and how he is moving forward.

Glen talks about leaving shame, self-loathing and finding peace, joy and happiness in the Gospel of Jesus Christ and his decision to be rebaptized in March 2024. Glen also shares a powerful insight while suicidal on the impact of his possible suicide on his daughter—one of the most powerful segments of any podcast we’ve done.

Glen talks about how to forgive the Church/Church culture for painful experiences consistent with his desire to move forward in the Church. I was so moved by the maturity, courage, vulnerability, hope and perspective in Glen’s story. Honored to have him on the podcast. You are a good man my friend Glen!

My friend Dr. Kerry Spencer Pray (lives in Maryland, Associate Professor at Sevenson University, married to her wife Heather, mother of two, taught at BYU for 15 years, no longer practicing Mormon) joins us to share her story. Dr. Pray talks about her prior marriage to her former husband (they both are gay), why that marriage ended (they are on good terms), and how she found hope and happiness as she made her way forward. Dr. Pray talks about the importance of writing your own story outside of the expectations of others—and how each queer story is unique, needed, and valued.

Dr. Pray talks about when she came out there were almost no stories of gay Latter-day Saint women and the importance of stories which led to her most recent book call “The Book of Queer Mormon Joy” which contains about 30 queer stories—focusing on how these individuals are finding joy.

I’m grateful for Dr. Pray bravely sharing some of her story and also her work as editor of this new book—and all her work in our broad community to bring more understanding and support. Thank you Dr. Pray—so glad to have you on the podcast!

Links:

The Book of Queer Mormon Joy at Signature Books: www.signaturebooks.com/books/p/the-book-of-queer-mormon-joy

The Book of Queer Mormon Joy at Amazon: www.amazon.com/dp/1560854707

I Spoke To You in Silence at Amazon: hwww.amazon.com/dp/164769079X

Dr. Pray Twitter: @Swilua

Dr Pray on Instagram: @Swilua_

This episode is guest-hosted by Tonya Miller. Tonya interviews Jaci Wightman, who shares her compelling story of recovery from dependence on food, and on sugar in particular. Jaci describes the ways that she felt prepared and guided in her journey, which began with her learning that sugar addiction is very real. Jaci talks about being resistant to this idea for years before allowing herself to trust that the Lord was guiding her to the relief she so badly needed from her dependence. Jaci also provides insights into why her reliance on food developed, and how healing from her dependence has had nothing to do with dieting or attaining a certain body shape or size.

I am grateful for Jaci's courage and for the hopeful perspective she brings to this topic. Jaci discusses the societal trends and pressures that influence so many people negatively and shares ideas for approaching and dismantling the shame that often interferes with our ability to see ourselves as God does. Jaci talks about feeling called to teach others about sugar addiction and to support them in their own healing.

I feel very hopeful that this podcast will be a springboard that can help us examine our own attitudes, and associated behaviors, not only about food and body image, but also about other compulsions that we may turn to, instead of to the Savior, for help and comfort. I am glad there are people like Jaci, who not only have the experience, but also the expertise, to help all of us be more mindful and aware around this topic. Jaci's website and other social media links are shared below. Of note, Jaci was also interviewed in Episode 706 (link in show notes)

As a side note, I’m focusing only on sharing stories associated with the Queer-LDS experience now. However, if you would like to share your story about a different Church- or gospel-related topic on Listen, Learn and Love, please contact Tonya about the possibility of working with her as my guest-host (e-mail Tonya at tonya@cottonwood.care).

Links for Jaci's digital platform are below:

Jaci’s YouTube channel:
youtube.com/@jaciwightman?si=Haekg_Ziz0X_GDN_

Jaci’s website: jaciwightman.com/

Jaci’s earlier podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/episode-706-jaci-wightman-new-book-ignited/id1347971725?i=1000631042858

My friend Haymitch St. Stephen (BYU degree, Stanford graduate degree, mid 30s, SLC native, Latter-day Saint) joins us to talk about his new book called “Friend of the Devil: A Story of Mental Health, Mistakes, and Self-Forgiveness”. This book is the story of Haymitch’s lifelong friend Cameron White, who—at age 17 in 2007—was the drunken driver of a car that killed four members of a Salt Lake City family (Michelle Williams and her unborn baby, her son Ben, and daughter Anna). Michelle’s husband Chris Willams (and a son) survived the accident. Chris wrote about this experience in his book called “Let It Go”.

Haymitch, working closely with Cameron White for 6 years, writes the book with insights from Cameron’s perspective of his long journey to find peace, hope, and self-forgiveness. It is a powerful story realizing the life-altering/shattering impact on the Williams family, spending time in jail, meeting Chris, and working to find hope and self-forgiveness—even when he doesn’t feel he deserves it.

Haymitch, a gifted creative writer and mindful/spiritual big thinker, masterfully weaves in teachings from others (Jesus, Lisa Miller, Thomas McConkie, Adam Miller) to this real-life story to create hope, peace and healing for everyone that seeks to forgive themselves. It is a book that is helpful to all of us to find peace and joy in the realities of an often wounding world.

I was so moved reading this book and listening to Haymitch. This is a powerful book that I encourage everyone to read. Thank you Haymitch (and Chris and Cameron) for sharing this story to help bring us together as the same human family.

Links:

Order Haymitch’s book: www.stillpoint.life

Learn about the June 7, 2024 book launch event: www.stillpoint.life

Contact Haymitch: www.stillpoint.life

Chris Williams “Let It Go” book: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1609071271