WorkSchism Anya Marchenko

Wayne Hsiung ran for mayor of Berkeley, CA in 2020 to try and make the Green City a reality. Wayne is an animal activist, and, since 2013, the founder of animal activism organization Direct Action Everywhere.  

In this full conversation, we talk about: 


Wayne's Green District idea for Berkeley
Why we need economies of scale in clean meat production
Cooperation between him and the elected Berkeley mayor
Why his animal rights activism is a cover for his climate activism
Why everybody should read Animal Liberation and watching Finding Nemo  

I like to tell people that I met Steve in the fall of my senior year at the University of Chicago, after I cold emailed him because I was writing a thesis on discrimination in Airbnb. I thought he might be a good person to talk to, and I was right: he was gracious enough to be my senior thesis advisor, and my first job after college was working on his research team. That story is true, and has the added benefit of making me seem like a real go-getter. But if I’m super honest? We had actually met two years before that, after I stood in a line with other undergrads to take a selfie with him after a lecture he gave at UChicago because he’s famous, and I’m a nerd.

I think of Steve Levitt as one of the original pop social scientists. He’s most famously the best-selling author of Freakonomics and Superfreakonomics, and now the host of his own podcast, People I Mostly Admire. In our interview, he reveals how he tries to leverage his new platform, and the immensely popular Freakonomics podcast, for social good. We also talk about Steve’s disillusionment with academia (he is a professor at the University of Chicago), his new social good center,  whether there’s any hope for individuals to make lasting change, and whether anybody should go get an Economics PhD (no). 

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Content Warning: This episode discusses sexual harassment 

Sally’s ultimate goal was always to get into college and then get a good job. Even though she achieved both of these things, Sally found herself devoid of the happiness and security that was supposed to come with doing everything right. In pursuit of prescribed goals, she's never learned how to develop a set of personal interests, which left her miserable when she finally got her “dream job.” 

In this episode, Anya and Sally discuss Sally’s insane path to starting over, using school as a tool, creating outside accountability, following your gut, and the importance of repeated trial and error. 

Notes: The newsletter Anya talks about starting is called Giving to Strangers, subscribe here: https://anyamarchenko.substack.com/ 

Anya grapples with the fallout of her decision to turn down a top PhD program in April. Sally and Anya discuss: Is it foolish & frivolous to turn down a prestigious opportunity? Or is Anya being brave and assertive by not settling for something she doesn’t want right now? 

Anya describes how without graduate school to work towards, she misses having a larger orienting purpose to her life. She talks about how now that she’s on the outside looking in, she all of a sudden feels FOMO. Sally points out that in the month since Anya has decided not to go to graduate school, she’s already made progress in learning about herself and what she really wants -- time definitely not wasted. 

The book Anya was talking about was called Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World by David Epstein.