I Couldn’t Throw It Out

Michael Small

Revisit pop culture history as former People Magazine reporter Michael Small and guests share the treasures they've saved for decades, including never-heard celebrity interviews, rare memorabilia, and maybe a little junk. Co-host Sally Libby helps decide if they should keep or toss their stuff. Will it be an epic case of Swedish Death Cleaning? Or an epic fail?

  1. Salt-N-Pepa: We Talked About Sex

    6 DAYS AGO

    Salt-N-Pepa: We Talked About Sex

    1991 flashback: Hear candid talk about female rappers, obscenity, sexism, and more with Salt-N-Pepa, 2025's newest members of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame  ----------- When I interviewed Salt-N-Pepa for my 1992 book Break It Down, they were among the most successful rappers on the planet. One platinum album and another coming soon.  Sell-out concerts around the world. But did I include them on my list of the top 5 hip-hop groups? Nope. Oops.  That was a mistake.  Now that Salt-N-Pepa are getting inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame, it's clear that they changed everything. With their DJ Spinderella and their producer Hurby Love Bug, they helped push hip-hop into the pop charts, where we've heard it ever since. If you missed "Shoop," "Push It," "Whatta Man," "Let's Talk about Sex" and other Salt-N-Pepa hits – or if you still love those songs – here's some good news: I saved my audio tapes for 34 years.  Now you can listen to my never-heard interviews, as Salt (Cheryl James) and Pepa (Sandra Denton) talk about their music, their private lives, and share their thoughts about sex, pregnancy, AIDS, abortion, friendship, and on and on.  To give some perspective to Salt-N-Pepa's 1991 thoughts, I'm joined by Clover Hope, author of the 2021 book, The Motherlode, 100+ Women Who Made Hip-hop. Not only does Clover help explain what Salt-N-Pepa contributed to our culture, she also helps me make the fateful decision: In my latest round of Swedish Death Cleaning, should I toss my Salt-N-Pepa possessions? Or should I keep them?  Of course, there's one gift from Salt-N-Pepa that I'll never lose – their famous song hooks that latch onto my brain:  "Ah, push it! Push it real good!" "Shoop, shoop-a-doop, shoop-a-doopa-doopa-doop." Want to bounce to those and other songs we discuss?  You'll find links at throwitoutpodcast.com. Have thoughts about this episode? Send us a text More info, photos, and transcript: throwitoutpodcast.com Don't miss a thing: Join our mailing list Do you save stuff you can't throw out? Tell us about it Want to show support? Please rate/follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

    54 min
  2. Swedish Death Cleaning - A global challenge?

    11 SEPT

    Swedish Death Cleaning - A global challenge?

    The director and cast of the TV series Waack Girls (Amazon Prime) explain why saving stuff is so common in India, and around the world -------------- If you ever suspected that an obsession with saving things is a mostly American habit, here's proof that it ain't so. Sooni Taraporevala -- who wrote the screenplays for Salaam Bombay!, Mississippi Masala, The Namesake, Yeh Ballet, and other movies -- recently told me that she's been saving treasures in Mumbai, India since she was 5. Not only that, but when Sooni checked with the young Indian cast members of her new TV series Waack Girls, they insisted that they've also been saving things since they were kids. In other words, it's an intergenerational, international pastime. Who knew? As it turns out, Sooni and Waack Girls stars, Mekhola Bose and Rytasha Rathore, have profound insights into why we save things. But then, I'm sorry to say they were exposed to a bad influence: me.  Yes, I could have taught them to clean out their closets with some Swedish Death Cleaning.  Alas, that isn't exactly what happened when they joined as guests on  I Couldn't Throw It Out. Hear the stories behind the things they've saved for years. Plus, find out about the wild dance style called waacking, which inspired Sooni to co-write and direct the TV series Waack Girls (on Amazon Prime).  It's based loosely on the life of the main character, played by our podcast guest Mekhola Bose. Maybe hearing and watching Mekhola will inspire you to try some new fancy moves. That -- like saving treasures for decades -- is something you can do in any country around the world. (To see Sooni, Mekhola and Rytasha's treasures, go to throwitoutpodcast.com.) Have thoughts about this episode? Send us a text More info, photos, and transcript: throwitoutpodcast.com Don't miss a thing: Join our mailing list Do you save stuff you can't throw out? Tell us about it Want to show support? Please rate/follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

    39 min
  3. Carl Sagan and Stormy Daniels: Workplace gems?

    12 JUL

    Carl Sagan and Stormy Daniels: Workplace gems?

    Treasures saved from past jobs spark memories of a scientist, a porn star, The Pet Shop Boys, The Partridge Family, and long-lost websites ------------------------------- Man, do we ever spend a lot of time at work.  That's one reason why I felt compelled to save things from the places I worked, to remind me how I spent so much of my time. I always suspected that I wasn't the only one who did this.  And now, I have proof. Four friends -- who worked at various offices with me -- agreed to join in a little Swedish Death Cleaning, to decide what we should do with the treasures we saved.  The result: Some plot twists that I never would have predicted. For instance, journalist Alan Carter, who worked with me at People Magazine, had forgotten that he reported a story about a 2007 porn convention.  But the memories came back when he uncovered a pile of press badges, including his porn credentials.  Suddenly, Alan remembered having a long chat with Stormy Daniels. Did he imagine she'd become famous world-wide? No. Was he wrong? Yes.  And that's why it pays to save things. Then there's former website manager Brett Mickelson – who now owns a Boston-area skydiving company called Boston Sky Dive Center. Brett brought out a photo of Carl Sagan, previously on display in the office that he used to share with me at NBC News. Why Carl Sagan?  Well, only Brett can explain.  But this prompted me to enlist a surprise guest who also loved Carl, but in a different way. Unlike Brett and Alan, graphic designer Berndt Abeck – who worked with me on a redesign of Rolling Stone's website -- didn't save little things from work.  Berndt saved only huge things.  Specifically, massive 6-foot paintings of 1990s album covers for British new-wave bands, which are still on the walls of his San Francisco design firm Abeck Inc.  Now that's what you call commitment to your savings. Another graphic designer, Stella Anastasia, who worked with me at Entertainment Weekly's website, is now making greeting cards you can eat, with her New York company Tart Break. Clearly, Stella's got the genetics of a saver. She actually saved print-outs of all the website designs she created in the 1990s, depicting search engines and ancient technology that is now long gone.  It's Internet history that would have been lost, if Stella hadn't kept it for future generations.  Go, Stella! Last of all, I decided to revisit an awkward gift from my days as a People Magazine reporter. The giver -- Marty Ingels -- was a well-known comedian. Plus, his wife actress/singer Shirley Jones – who starred in movie musicals like Oklahoma and Carousel and later became the mom on 1970s TV series The Partridge Family – was a kind of superstar. But – considering that you probably haven't heard of either of them – let this be a lesson.  Fame is fleeting. Unless, of course, you give a gift to me. Then I'll make a podcast episode about it, and you'll live forever! If you've got stuff you saved from work, dig it out!  Share the memories with your own friends, and put your treasures on display. Or maybe – do better than we did – and throw them out? Stormy Daniels photo: Lukeisback.com, CC BY-SA 2.5,  Have thoughts about this episode? Send us a text More info, photos, and transcript: throwitoutpodcast.com Don't miss a thing: Join our mailing list Do you save stuff you can't throw out? Tell us about it Want to show support? Please rate/follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

    51 min
  4. Nicolas Cage goes wild? Yes, and no. Hear him in 1994

    2 MAY

    Nicolas Cage goes wild? Yes, and no. Hear him in 1994

    Nic Cage delivers another explosive performance in the new movie "The Surfer." But the actor I interviewed was somebody else. ---------- When I talked with Nicolas Cage on the phone for an hour in 1994, he already had a bit of a reputation for going ballistic in movies.  Just the crazed cockroach-eating scene in Vampire's Kiss was enough to give a guy a reputation. But lo and behold, he told me a lot of things I didn't expect.  For starters, he's very shy off-screen and he felt like a reject in high school. Plus, he was reading Henry Miller and Rimbaud, enjoying Wagner's music, and – despite the plot of his new film "The Surfer" – he tried surfing and felt it was too difficult. Cage's filmography is so huge – about 124 movies so far – that I couldn't absorb it all. So it's lucky I got help from Ty Burr – the former culture critic for the Boston Globe (where he was a finalist for a Pulitzer) and author of several books about movies. Ty now writes the terrific movie newsletter Ty Burr's Watch List. During the episode, Ty lists all the Cage movies you'll want to stream, and the ones you can avoid.  Very useful! After I found and listened again to my 1994 interview with Nic – which I had completely forgotten --  I decided to rewatch three of his movies from that year. One was very fun and worth watching (Guarding Tess with Shirley McLaine).  Two were, for me, barely watchable (Trapped in Paradise with with Jon Lovitz and Dana Carvey and It Could Happen To You with Bridget Fonda). Nic's fourth 1994 movie Red Rock West – which I loved when I saw it back then – isn't streaming anywhere. Injustice!  But I remember it well enough to confirm a highlight of all these films: Nic Cage's performance. I discovered that I'm a major Cage fan.  And that's the beauty of saving things.  When you got back to them, you learn something new. The real surprise in this episode:  I take that old cassette tape in my hand, and I do something I'm supposed to do in every episode – and never do.  I guess Nic Cage gave me the inspiration to go a little crazy. In a good way, of course. Maybe he'll do the same for you?  Have thoughts about this episode? Send us a text More info, photos, and transcript: throwitoutpodcast.com Don't miss a thing: Join our mailing list Do you save stuff you can't throw out? Tell us about it Want to show support? Please rate/follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

    58 min
  5. The Lost Interview: Led Zeppelin’s Page and Plant

    19 MAR

    The Lost Interview: Led Zeppelin’s Page and Plant

    Hear my never-shared 1995 talk with Jimmy Page and Robert Plant about their music, books, diets, girlfriends, hair loss, Led Zeppelin myths, and their Unledded reunion ----- If you find it hard to visualize Led Zeppelin’s Jimmy Page and Robert Plant in a People Magazine article, I’m with you. The People article I reported and wrote about them in 1995 was never published. So the cassette tapes of my interview went into a box, like a heavy metal time capsule. Until now.  When I saw the rave reviews for the 2025 documentary Becoming Led Zeppelin – about the early career of the band –- I dug out everything I had saved from my canceled story, and I’m sharing it with you now. In 1994, Page and Plant had reunited after a 14-year hiatus to record an unplugged session for MTV. This resulted in an album called No Quarter: Jimmy Page and Robert Plant Unledded.  Then they went on a 1995 U.S. and European tour, performing some new songs and several Led Zeppelin songs that had been re-conceived with an orchestra, a team of Egyptian musicians, some young rockers, and a hurdy gurdy player.  The project raised some questions:  Why did they wait 14 years after the death of drummer John Bonham to reunite? Why was bass and keyboard player John Paul Jones not included? Would they still live out the wild myths of rock’n’roll excess that supposedly took place in their heyday? Because this assignment was for People Magazine, I also had the courage to broach the truly vital issues:  what they ate for lunch, who they lived with, what they read, and how they kept in shape. The big belated surprise:  Because Led Zeppelin's music was ubiquitous for my whole life, I viewed them as a cliché.  But, after hearing my tapes again and listening to their music, I finally get what many of my high school classmates knew back in the 1970s. And I understand why Page and Plant are among the bestselling artists of all time, nearly up there with the Beatles and Michael Jackson. It’s because they're extremely smart and talented, and they're amazing musicians. I now hear the technical difficulty and the perfectionism in their performances. They aren't dinosaurs of rock. They're innovators, who invented something new and powerful. Joined by Led Zeppelin aficionado George Meyer – who also happens to be my friend and a renowned TV, movie, magazine, and theater writer – I revisited everything I saved from my ill-fated story and determined what I could throw out.  Yes, some things got tossed.  But you can see what I saved at:  throwitoutpodcast.com After all these years, I hope you enjoy hearing these lost interviews. Have thoughts about this episode? Send us a text More info, photos, and transcript: throwitoutpodcast.com Don't miss a thing: Join our mailing list Do you save stuff you can't throw out? Tell us about it Want to show support? Please rate/follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

    1h 14m
  6. Sending a Valentine's Day card? 10 rules to follow

    9 FEB

    Sending a Valentine's Day card? 10 rules to follow

    Learn a lesson from the Valentine’s Day cards I’ve saved since the ‘70s: 10 important rules for sending cards to the ones you love, and tips for deciding which love notes to save ----- If you’re sending Valentine’s Day cards this year, there are some key rules to follow -- and mistakes to avoid.   I know this because I’ve been saving Valentines since the 1970s.  So I can see which ones got right to the heart of it and which sent Cupid’s arrows slightly off target. Looking through my card collection, co-host Sally Libby and I came up with 10 rules that could help you find the right words for romance this year. We also try to show some love for the art of Swedish Death Cleaning -- by including tips about which Valentines Day cards to save, and which to toss. Like, what should you do with romantic cards from a former partner in love? We have strong feelings about that.  In the end, we experienced a sort of Valentines Day miracle.  After two years of podcasting, I finally had the urge to toss my treasures. Okay, not all of them.  But my stash did get smaller.  So I've shared why I sent some treasures to the trash can, and what might motivate you to do the same. As Sally points out in our quick look at Valentine's Day history, a celebration of love can be traced all the way back to the Roman holiday Lupercalia.  Considering the chaos and ugliness we've seen in 2025, it seems important to preserve any holiday that increases our love and laughter.  I know I’m not the only one who wants a little more love in the world right now. To see the most lovable and funniest Valentines Day cards I received during the past five decades, go to throwitoutpodcast.com.  (And while you’re there, we’d really feel the love if you’d sign up for our newsletter – so we can update you whenever there’s a new episode.) Thank you for listening! (Farting Cupid card from Carlton Cards, Cleveland Ohio.) Have thoughts about this episode? Send us a text More info, photos, and transcript: throwitoutpodcast.com Don't miss a thing: Join our mailing list Do you save stuff you can't throw out? Tell us about it Want to show support? Please rate/follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

    30 min
  7. How Keith Haring Changed Art: Hear Him in '83

    24 JAN

    How Keith Haring Changed Art: Hear Him in '83

    His graffiti in NYC subways made him a world-wide art star before his death at 31. Hear my 1983 interview as Haring answers his critics, plus: a chat about Keith with Andy Warhol Even if you don’t know one artist since Michelangelo, the chances are good that you’ll recognize the creations of Keith Haring. More than 40 years after he started drawing with chalk – for free – in New York City subway stations, it’s still easy to spot his cartoon-like symbols: radiant babies, barking wolves. Now, 35 years after his death in 1990 at age 31 (from complications related to AIDS), his paintings sell for millions, and you’ll see them in museums around the world. When I interviewed Keith for People Magazine in 1983, he was at a turning point.  Major galleries wanted his work. But some high-brow critics called him a self-promoter. They hated the  fact that he put his icons on buttons and posters that he gave out for free, and on t-shirts that he sold at his NYC store The Pop Shop. So I pushed Keith to answer back, which he did. I also had a brief phone call with Andy Warhol, who explained to me what he saw in Keith’s work. When I listen to my interview tapes 41 years later, I don’t feel qualified to explain why Keith Haring’s art still deserves your attention.  So I got help from Brad Gooch, author of the authoritative 2024 biography Radiant: The Life and Line of Keith Haring.  (Both Sally and I loved the book, which was a New York Times bestseller.) Brad talked with me about Keith's art and career, sharing useful insight before I play highlights from my 1983 interview with Keith. Of course, there's another reason for this episode:  I’ve held onto many treasures related to Keith – and I can't decide what to do with them.  This is where I need your help. I’ve posted pictures of my Haring treasures, along with a poll, asking for your guidance about what to save or toss.  Please weigh in on our website.  For me, Keith’s art still looks lively and young.  I hope you’ll enjoy flipping back in time to hear the energetic 25-year-old tell me about his art, his life, and his dreams. Have thoughts about this episode? Send us a text More info, photos, and transcript: throwitoutpodcast.com Don't miss a thing: Join our mailing list Do you save stuff you can't throw out? Tell us about it Want to show support? Please rate/follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

    59 min
  8. Christmas Gifts and Hanukkah Cards: Toss or keep?

    23/12/2024

    Christmas Gifts and Hanukkah Cards: Toss or keep?

    Get out the holiday treasures you’ve saved for years, and join us as we decide why we kept them and what to do with them. --------- Attention holiday revelers!  Are you someone who just can’t let go of Christmas and Hanukkah gifts from the past?  Even if they don’t fit? Or they’re ugly?   Or they’re useless? What about holiday cards? Do you stash them somewhere year after year and never look at them again? Well, you’re not alone. On this episode of I Couldn’t Throw It Out, we’ve gathered friends to wrestle with age-old question of what to do with our holiday treasures. Our four guests -- college teacher Louisa Campbell, writer/chef Mark Ganem, entrepreneur Ginger Thomson, and storyteller/actor Eric Weiner -- share some treasures they’ve saved for years. Though no one brought an ugly Christmas sweater, we did determine the fate of an ugly porcelain elephant, an ill-fitting jacket, two ancient dreidels, some Christmas ornaments, and 76 Christmas and Hanukkah cards dating back to 1967. (This includes a 1991 card showing co-host Sally Libby’s two children and two dogs, with her candid note on the back:  “What kind of mother sends out a card where the dogs look better than the kids?”) Along the way, we made some surprising discoveries about what was important to us and why. Listen along, then dig out all the treasures you saved from Santa’s previous visits and revisit your own holiday memories as you decide:  Can you throw it out? See all the treasures we share in this episode on the website for I Couldn’t Throw It Out. Have thoughts about this episode? Send us a text More info, photos, and transcript: throwitoutpodcast.com Don't miss a thing: Join our mailing list Do you save stuff you can't throw out? Tell us about it Want to show support? Please rate/follow us wherever you get your podcasts.

    45 min

About

Revisit pop culture history as former People Magazine reporter Michael Small and guests share the treasures they've saved for decades, including never-heard celebrity interviews, rare memorabilia, and maybe a little junk. Co-host Sally Libby helps decide if they should keep or toss their stuff. Will it be an epic case of Swedish Death Cleaning? Or an epic fail?

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