Out of Obscurity Unknown

Welcome back idiotprogrammer, Robert Nagle, to OoO’s longstanding mini-feature.  
 
In it, he mentions an article from 2000 by Courtney Love and follows up, “https://www.salon.com/2000/06/14/love_7/ Courtney Loe  wrote this long screed in 2000! 
Re-reading it, I see that her take was on the mark. I'm in the publishing business and face some of the same issues (sort of). 
A lot of older authors have a hard time getting their rights back  (It's called rights reversion), but there is a process for doing so. The labels grabbed a bit too much in the 1990s especially before digital sales was a significant chunk of their sales. But it all depends on your contract; if musicians got legal representation, they could know these things in advance, but labels signed people very quickly in the 1990s without musicians getting legal advice.  labels used to be  a little too controlling of the small number of ubercelebrities they signed on.”

OoO did not intend to take a three-month hiatus, but we’re glad to be back with idiotprogrammer, Robert Nagle.
 
DJ Poseur claims that DL is the best rock band to have its whole discography on Bandcamp on a “name your price” basis:  https://dolefullions.bandcamp.com/
Find S&S’s debut on Discogs:  https://www.discogs.com/master/107485-SavathSavalas-Folk-Songs-For-Trains-Trees-And-Honey 
 
STRUCTURE:  War in Europe for Ukrainian & Russian Music (to 9:25) Doleful Lions “Out Like a Lamb” (9:25-16:00) Other critics & genre, Lazarus as a song premise (16:00-24:00)  Being tame —> longevity? Bandcamp’s future in licensing.  Downsides of consistency (24:00-27:52) Doleful Lions “Look Homeward Angel Numbers,” Ratings, RIYLs (27:52-31:17)  Comparison of very different album picks & Robert’s thoughts on Savath & Savalas, how excited to be about mellow music (31:17-44:08) Savath & Savalas “Folk Songs for Trees, Trains and Honey” electronic music around the turn of the 21st century (44:08-48:45) AMG & Pitchfork on S&S & what ambient is and is not, elderly electronic listeners, live music & instrumental music, unpredictability in repetitive musical styles (48:45-1:00:30) What we listened to that our parents couldn’t stand, DJ Poseur goes racist to describe styles of music he doesn’t like in misinterpretation of a question about Thai musical tastes, Trip-hop & downtempo versus jazz & lounge music, RIYLs (1:00:30-1:06:25) Rating S&S (1:06:25 to conclusion).
 
In the Ukraine war intro, Robert does a great job with examples of how musicians on all sides are responding.  UKRAINIAN MUSIC FOREVER!! Robert's "Ukraine Pop Music is Cool" Playlist on Spotify. https://spoti.fi/3MnVNTn Also a Youtube playlist: https://bit.ly/3vMpeIL   As always, check out his blog for more media.  http://www.imaginaryplanet.net/weblogs/idiotprogrammer/
 We also mention “Russian folk singers with a message” such as Alexander Rozenbaum.
 
Album reviews for “Out Like a Lamb”:  https://chicagoreader.com/music/local-indie-rockers-doleful-lions-have-long-been-overlooked-but-theyve-never-lost-their-spark/ , https://chicagoreader.com/music/local-indie-rockers-doleful-lions-have-long-been-overlooked-but-theyve-never-lost-their-spark/ .  AMG thinks very highly of them but hasn’t updated their discography https://www.allmusic.com/artist/doleful-lions-mn0000141712 .  Two others get the Pitchfork treatment https://pitchfork.com/artists/1261-doleful-lions/ . 
 
DJ Poseur can’t take psychedelic folk rock revivalism very seriously due to Spinal Tap’s “Listen to the Flower People” 
 
“Out Like a Lamb” is RIYL:   The Beatles, The Beach Boys, His Name Is Alive, "Kumbaya", Junip/Jose Gonzalez, Simon & Garfunkel, Mamas and the Papas, Paul Simon, Jimmy Dale Gilmore, Papas Fritas.
“Look Homeward Angel Numbers” is RIYL:  The Faint, Caesars, Many Birthdays, Dandy Warhols, Gentlemen
DJ Poseur owns most of and recommends the entirety of the Hefty Records catalog for fans of instrumental, post-rock, experimental but still accessible downtempo electronica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hefty_Records . 
 
The cohost and DJ Poseur disagree on whether DL would be RIYL or overall sounds similar to Of Montreal for their psychedelic chameleon rock discographies that vary over decades from the 1990s to the 2020s.
 
“Folk Songs for Trains, Trees and Honey” is RIYL:  Bonobo, Boards of Canada, Thievery Corporation (& full stable of ESL Music in Washington D.C. = Eighteenth Street Lounge Music), DJ Farina’s “Mushroom Jazz”.
The rest of S&S’s discography is RIYL:  Devendra Banhart, Junip/Jose Gonzalez, Cass McCombs
 
A very old Pitchfork review of it:  https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/7007-folk-songs-for-trains-trees-and-honey/ 
 
Robert’s favorite mellow music comes from Polly Scattergood & Goldfrapp, both comparable in his view to Stevie Nicks.  Also
Australian singer Princess Chelsea .
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It’s been a long, unscheduled hiatus for OoO, but here’s a morsel of what we’ll talk about in OoO EI4, currently being edited.  The albums up for arrangement from most to least famous in this quiz are as follows:
 
A. Dandy Warhols - "Thirteen Tales from Urban Bohemia" (2000).  B. The Apples in Stereo - "Fun Trick Noisemaker" (1995).  C. The Vryll Society - "Course of the Satellite" (2018).  D. Doleful Lions - "Out Like a Lamb" (2002).  E. Gentlemen - "Secret Memories" (2020).  F. The Everly Brothers - "Roots" (1968).  G. Guided by Voices - "Bee Thousand" (1994).
 
By the guest’s request, I cross-checked the number of reviews on AllMusic Guide with the number on rateyourmusic.com .  Impressively, the rankings were exactly the same in terms of comparing the number of user rankings for each album.  Furthermore, the most-ranked album for each artist (which is usually the one chosen for the Obscurity Quiz) was also the same as on AMG.  Let’s hear it for intercoder reliability or at least internet statistics generally!  Woo consensuses!
 
On Discogs, it’s much more labor-intensive to find out which of a band’s albums has the most ratings.  The albums in this quiz differed slightly there, with The Dandy Warhols more popular relative to GBV &  The Everly Brothers more popular relative to The Apples in Stereo.  I probably won’t do this much follow-up after every Obscurity Quiz going forward, however fascinating these subtle differences may be.

Buy our album picks on Bandcamp, 3/4 on a “name your price” basis:  https://capillaryaction.bandcamp.com/album/capsized  &  https://discorporate.bandcamp.com/album/squeeze-me-ahead-of-line
 
STRUCTURE:  OG introduces CA & his history w/ them, attending & booking concerts, the awe of discovering something completely new, the importance of venue, stripping down the band on tour, DJ Poseur’s ignorance of Oberlin but mutual co-op Hobart worship, CA is recommended for whom? (0:00-13:20) Drummers w/ energy & turning on a dime, composition versus improvisation, any accessible entry points?, NO Mr. Bungle!, “Capsized” & “So Embarrassing”, associates of CA, OG’s concert bookings in the bygone days of Myspace, the early days of social media, one doesn’t get into music for the money, underground & “self-released” music (13:20-24:18) Being an amazing opening act w/ a famous tour versus headlining, collaboration & exposure, ratings & critical reviews, Pitchfork readers poll & Joe Tangari’s reviews of CA (24:18-30:20) individual songs on “Capsized”, the convergence of extreme complexity & unintentionally genius incompetence, a van accident, the Kevin Shea tributes, side projects & day jobs as the tragedy of the millennial generation’s musical luminaries, WI (30:20-39:48) CA’s elusive discography, documentation of OGs glory days w/ CA, the meaning of CA, RIYLs (39:48-45:35) ratings, metal adjacency & the need for experimentation (45:35-48:50) transition between album picks (48:50-56:33) no such thing as bad music?  acquired tastes & the need for repeated listening to appreciate versus being a rock edgelord (compared to the more American practice of getting really into obscure forms of Christianity), are they done making music?, pushing the boundaries of rock in the 2020s, hooks, complexity, drumming (56:33-59:59) electronics sour the rock purists, vocal comparison, unusual song structures & unpredictability > soloing.  “Squeeze Me Ahead of Line”, Discorporate & Tzadik Records, collaborators famous and obscure, plugging Bandcamp call to action (59:59-1:06:25) review on “All About Jazz” and elsewhere & when screaming vocals are appropriate, then individual songs on “a subtle album”, quasi-jazz comparisons, songs blending versus being individually distinguishable, music for driving, the explosion of subgenres, is it offensive or an easy/“soothing” listen? (1:06:25-1:14:37) How serious are their boastful self-descriptions on Bandcamp?, mystique, avant-garde, the slow return of live music post-Covid (1:14:37-1:17:17) ratings & comparison to their previous EP “Caudle Cameo” (1:17:17-end)
 
Capillary Action is RIYL:  Mike Patton, FZ, The Season Standard, Basset Hounds, Jouska, Head of Femur, pele, The Book of Knots, Hi Red Center, Need New Body, Volcano!, Zs, Make a Rising, Many Arms & other raucously ambitious acts on Tzadik. I hear Elvis Costello in his voice; OG hears Sinatra (!) & says Mr. Pfeffer mentioned Archie Shepp as a big influence.
 
The Season Standard is RIYL: Mahogany Frog, Capillary Action, Phil Manzanera, Deerhoof ("Xylan" especially), T.J. Kirk, King Crimson
 
A great, insightful interview w/ Jonathan Pfeffer of CA in a source I’d never heard of (about the previous album, “So Embarrassing”:  http://www.tokafi.com/15questions/interview-capillary-action/ .  
“So Embarrassing” is NYP on Discorporate Records. 
 
A cool rendition of “Sweepstakes” in an indoor overpass.  
 
I would absolutely have loved to see a double bill of CA & Už Jsme Doma in Madison, mentioned by OG as his first meeting of the bandleader.  Here’s the music video for “Mariana”.  They should have an album pick on a future OoO episode.
 
OG also mentioned Charlie Looker , Psalm Zero, and Extra Life.  Mike Watt as a collaborator & jamming partner also comes up.
 
Pitchfork’s reviewer does a good, thorough job with CA, comparing them both aptly and humorously to Need New

This is a new mini-feature we’re trying out for the first time, though it was intended to accompany the very first episode of OoO.   The idea is to give a very personal review in conversation about a “best of” or “essential” albums list in a particular style for a list from a semi-authoritative source online.
 
We begin w/ this list of “Essential Power Pop Albums”:  https://www.treblezine.com/10-essential-power-pop-albums/  (If you want to play along, don’t look at the list until after the episode.)
 
The list is discussed album-by-album, with each cohost giving his or her personal hot take and receiving a numerical score in relation to it.  The scoring is rather complicated, but I hope it’ll eventually be second-nature and easy enough for listeners to tally their own scores.  It also admittedly favors people w/ large collections of physical or digital media rather than those who just stream music (as it should, I say!)
 
SCORING FOR EACH ALBUM:  Never heard of band & album (-5 pts); Heard of Band but not album (-4); Heard of both but not heard & don't own (0); Heard It (+2); Own It (+10); Own It But Haven't Heard It (+3); Used to Own (and Listened) But Don't Now (+5). Own a different/additional album by the same band +1 each.  Saw live +2 each time, saw frontman live +1 each time.  10pt. bonus if you would have put an album on your own list in the category.  5pt. bonus if you're sure a band that is on the list would be on your list but a different album.
 
Obviously the goal is to have a positive rather than negative total score by the end, and there can be some competition between the cohosts to establish credibility or even expertise.  Listeners are strongly encouraged to post their own scores in the comments, and congratulations are owed to anyone who can best the cohosts.  You’ll just have to listen to know our scores (no spoilers in the description!) and whether we can keep our heads above water.  I expect some negative scores in the future.
 
If you’ve read this far, we will say that OG approved of the list more strongly than DJ Poseur, finding 80% in the 20th century to be an unfair bias.  A list of DJ Poseur’s favorite power pop albums would definitely have included Starlight Mints’ debut & a Self album (an actual list is probably not forthcoming, barring popular demand).  Optimus Grimes’ score should get the 5pt. bonus for calling one entry “THE quintessential power pop band.”  I failed to include it b/c this was the first time doing this mini-feature.
 
Welcome any feedback on whether this is more or less interesting to listen to than our usual mini-feature, The Obscurity Quiz, and if you know a good list (preferably of 10 albums) to use in a future edition.  

Purchase our album picks on Bandcamp https://pitchblackmanor.bandcamp.com/album/monster-classics & eMusic https://www.emusic.com/album/4953371/The-Spits/Scion-AV-Garage-Presents-The-Spits---Haunted-Fang-Castle 
 
Structure:  Introducing Loveheart & her experience raising a kid in the 21st century w/ music (0:00-8:55); Basic specs for “Monster Classics” & Loveheart introduces PBM & favoring bands w/ personal connections is considered (8:55-13:40) The dangers of musical nepotism, successful promotion of self-released music, after age 30 how loud is “too loud”?, genres, impressive production, other bands, vocals & lyrics, a passion for horror movies, horror soundtracks atmosphere vs. pop singles (13:40-28:49) Individual songs on “Monster Classics”, Loveheart’s personal music experiences, what songs we skip on an album,  (28:49-39:08) RIYLs, closing tracks, the music videos, festive family time (39:08-45:45) Ratings & PBM’s discography (45:45-48:05) Transition between album picks w/ “holiday” music & the need for a 21st-century Halloween music canon, spooky architecture, Midwestern rock, a novelty band Vs. a novelty album (48:05-55:09) Basic specs for “Haunted Fang Castle” & the storytelling media of the 1980s to early 1990s before CDs & the internet, the advent of on-demand entertainment & youth’s veneration of physical media in a remote/digital environment, classroom tech, & circling back to “Haunted Fang Castle” (55:09-1:05:20) characters in the story, individual songs (1:05:20-1:12:15) The Spits in general & our shared John Waters thoughts, Loveheart’s evolving punk assessments, discography & RIYLs (1:12:15-1:19:11) ratings (1:19:11-end)
 
Pitch Black Manor is RIYL:  Mike Patton, Rocky Horror Picture Show, White Zombie?, Voltaire, Bowie, Iggy Pop, Ministry, Devo, Voot Warnings, Goblin Cock, Marilyn Manson, My Life w/ the Thrill Kill Kult, Melancholic Bitch 
 
The Spits are RIYL:  The Ramones, The Kills, dirty/old-school garage & punk rock, catchy little ditties 
 
“Monster Classics” album review https://regenmag.com/reviews/review-pitch-black-manor-monster-classics/   
& a news release https://www.quadcities.com/articles/pitch-black-manor-returns-with-new-record-after-25-years/  PBM's many music videos set to classic horror films on their YouTube channel https://www.youtube.com/c/PitchBlackManor 
 
The producer, Erik Peabody, may be responsible for this very spooky channel, Chilling Tales for Dark Nights.
 
David Bowie narrates “Peter & the Wolf” https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLonWRv9u8k-p-hpprl3rr-PmDOhlAzm1a 
 
The Spits have a YouTube channel, https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF6qXluX-R7QqxEPi0LvS4g  , but most of their live concert footage is on other channels.  John Waters gives The Spits live set a fine introduction here:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3zw4b4yldg 
 
Bands mentioned for playing in black, hooded robes include The Spits , Secret Chiefs 3, & Goblin Cock.  Might there be more?
 
Loveheart mentions the vocals on “Blasphemy” as akin to Cradle of Filth. Furious George as a “goofy” punk rock band https://www.allmusic.com/artist/furious-george-mn0000801584 .  
 
Once again, the vampire rock band comedy “Suck” (2009) is recommended:  https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1323605/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_5 
 
Three other fine, often very scary movies mentioned in the episode:  Gods & Monsters , It Follows , & Green Room.  
 
Loveheart mentions FZ’s “Baby Snakes”.
 
DJ Poseur's Halloween mixes:  "Dark Chills" https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCBeakfAKFQbVbJzD-leE83ysJYCbmY_3 & "Halloween Hits" https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCBeakfAKFQavg1LNLkY_16focO89wXG9