The Pedagogy of Rumi EdTech Cubed

To explore critical pedagogy and liberation of the curriculum, in this podcast I interview author and Sufi teacher Shaikh Kabir Helminski. We discuss human condition, subjective human experience, mindfulness, pedagogy of mirroring - (as modelled by Shams and Rumi), and how to read Rumi. Transcript to the talk can be read below
Transcript
Saqib: Welcome, Shaikh Kabir, wonderful to have you. So, a couple of things I wanted to discuss today. The first, conditioning; cultural and religious. Are we as human beings confined to it? Or is there the possibility of liberation from it? And if so, how does that happen?
Shaikh Kabir: Well, we would not be human beings without a certain amount of conditioning. The question is, is the conditioning a positive or negative factor? Also, how aware are we that we are conditioned? So, any spiritual practice that raises our level of consciousness, allowing us to witness ourselves, our thoughts, our emotions, our behaviours, gives us a vantage point on our conditioning. And through that, we can engage in a process of, first, deconditioning. Deconditioning means doing what we can to reduce the negative forms of conditioning that do harm in our relationships that cause fear, cause worry, and all other forms of negativity. So, deconditioning first, and then reconditioning. Reconditioning is to replace all those negative factors by putting in place positive behaviours, positive habits, and positive responses, like, shall we say, generosity, gratitude, forgiveness, and patience. But there is also the possibility of unconditional love. Unconditional love is what will finally free the human being from these, sometimes positive, sometimes negative, factors of conditioning. In our essence, though, we are unconditioned. We are an eternal spirit participating in the Infinite Divine Being of Existence. And it is vitally important for the human being to have some experience of that. And from the experience of that these other levels of conditioning are transformed. We are then freed from the negative aspects of our conditioning and will then begin to manifest those latent attributes of the Divine Reality that are beautiful, loving, and intelligent.
Saqib: Wonderful. So, just to be clear, as human beings, are we limited to a subjective experience, or is there a possibility of objective perception and understanding of reality?
Shaikh Kabir: Well, just to define our terms. If by subjective you mean distorted or limited by a uniquely personal point of view, I would say we should be able to transcend that kind of subjectivity. If by subjectivity you mean a unique viewpoint within this non-dual unified reality, a perspective of an “I” that is the viewer, I believe we will continue to have that kind of subjective experience. But the important question is, is that “I” veiled by negativity, veiled by prejudice, veiled by selfishness, veiled by trauma, etc, etc. So, every soul has the possibility of a uniquely subjective, and yet, pure vantage point. I am reminded of what Ibn Arabi, when essentially asked about this question, said: 
“My journey was entirely within myself. But when I came as close as a human being can come to the presence of my Rabb (Lord), I saw that I was nothing but servanthood without a trace of sovereignty.”
So, by servanthood, here, he means every value in the human being, every capacity, every resource, every strength, is lent to us, reflected to us, by the primary agency, That Divine Sovereign, and yet we as unique individual reflections of the Divine Being. According to how much we can polish the mirror of our own heart we can be in that subjective, relatively objective, that vantage point, which is undistorted...