Animal Behavior Conversations: The Podcast of The ABMA Shane Gorbett, Board of Directors, The Animal Behavior Management Alliance

For the 50th episode of the podcast, special guest Ken Ramirez, Karen Pryor Clicker Training breaks down what it means to provide animals with choice and... control. Ken discuss why these terms have often been connected and how to ensure that we are providing both for animals. Ken also speaks to the importance of training in a modern animal setting and how it can be used to help animals get to the "yes" behavior in order to provide control. This episode is filled with practical examples that can provide clarity and help to focus these topics into welfare discussions. Stay tuned in for Ken's "Training Tale" about how he and a rescued dog accidentally ruined a show at the Shedd Aquarium. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Ken you can follow him on Instagram at ken_ramirez_kptc Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!

3:55 Introduction to Ken Rameriz 
12:05 Introduction to choice and... control 
13:45 Definition and practical application of Choice 
17:10 Definition and practical application of Control 
29:15 Giving animals control while still getting to the yes 
37:00 Why are these two terms connected 
48:21 Practical example of control 
52:10 Can an animal have control but not choice? 
59:10 How choice and ... control fit into welfare and future advancements 
1:05:40 Advice on how to start using training and behavior to give animals choice and... control 
1:08:10 "Training Tales" 

This episode Sandy Jabas, The First VP of The ABMA, discusses what it means for a behavior to be under stimulus control. Sandy educates about how to tell if a behavior is under stimulus control and also the importance of stimulus control in our training. Sandy also teases the 2025 ABMA Annual Conference in Galveston, Texas hosted by Moody Gardens! Stay tuned in for three "Training Tales" about a funny mishap when shifting dolphins, a dolphin tail fluke splash gone wrong, and interesting research about dolphin dive reflex. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Sandy you can email firstvp@theabma.org. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!


2:30 Intro to Sandy Jabas 


5:50 Intro to the 2025 Annual Conference in Galveston, Texas


9:25 Definition of Stimulus Control 


11:40 Practical Examples of Stimulus Control 


15:20 How to tell if a behavior is under stimulus control? 


23:25 Advice for challenges with training a behavior to be under stimulus control. 


27:15 “Training Tales”

This episode, through daily live recordings, features a recap of the 2024 ABMA annual conference (April 15-19 2024) hosted by the Nashville Zoo. Each day of the conference, one of the presenters for the day discusses their presentation and other learning that impacted them. 

Day 1: Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo & The Animal Behavior Community (carnivores@jerusalemzoo.org)

Day 2: Dr. Cathy Mingee, North Carolina Zoo (cathy.mingee@nczoo.org)

Day 3: Cam Luna, Nashville Zoo (cluna@nashvillezoo.org)

Day 4: Chandelle Cotter, Bird Treatment and Learning Center (chandelle_cotter@birdtlc.org)

If you are an ABMA member be sure to log in to Animalprofessional.com to watch most of the presentations and panels from the 2024 conference. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org. Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!


7:00 Recap of Monday with Benjamin Fainsod, Jerusalem Zoo & The Animal Behavior Community


18:45 Recap of Tuesday with Cathy Mingee, North Carolina Zoo 


35:45 Recap of Thursday with Cam Luna, Nashville Zoo 


45:05 Recap of Friday with Chandelle Cotter, Bird Treatment and Learning Center

This episode Tim Sullivan, Brookfield Zoo Chicago and one of the founders of The ABMA, discusses how to use behavioral goals to provide purposeful lives to animals. Tim starts by giving a little history to the founding of The ABMA and then jumps into discussing why behavior is an all encompassing word. If you were at the 2024 ABMA annual conference in Nashville or if you are an ABMA member and watch Tim's environmental enrichment workshop on animalprofessional.com, this podcast episode is a great companion to his presentation. Tim educates about shifting our mindset in order to provide purposeful lives to animals. Taking ourselves away from providers and into a facilitator role, allowing animals to do the jobs that they do best! Tim also speaks to what it means to teach animals to be good learners instead of teaching animals "good" lessons and how we can all successfully navigate this shift in thinking. Stay tuned in for Tim's "Training Tale" about how he started thinking about the correlation between guest applause and the behaviors of the animal. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email abc@theabma.org and to reach Tim you can email tim.sullivan@czs.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!


2:30 Introduction to Tim Sullivan 


9:15 History on the founding of The ABMA 


12:50 Why is behavior an all encompassing word for training, enrichment, etc.? 


16:20 What does it mean to “Provide Purposeful Lives” to animals? 


23:25 Teaching animals how to interact with an enrichment opportunity/do a novel behavior in their free time? 


28:05 Getting started with changing the mindset


33:50 Shift in enrichment from items to experiences/opportunities


37:20 Teaching animals to be good learners, not teaching good lessons 


48:05 “Training Tales”

This episode Sarah van Herpt, Animals Asia - Vietnam, discusses relationship and trust building with animals who previously lived in adverse and traumatic environments. Animals Asia rescues bears from the bear bile industry so Sarah is able to give practical examples of how they help the rescued bears move from trauma to trust. Sarah educates about desensitization and different techniques used to build trust such as temporarily using negative reinforcement with animals where the best reinforcer is distance and space. Sarah also talks about how to build trust back quickly after a situation that may require some of that trust to be broken. l Stay tuned in for a "Training Tale" about giving the power of consent and control back to rescued bears! For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠⁠abc@theabma.org⁠⁠ To reach Sarah email svanherpt@animalsasia.org and to learn more about Animals Asia visit their website at https://www.animalsasia.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!


3:00 Introduction to Sarah van Herpt and Animals Asia 


9:00 Starting to build a trusting relationship with an animal from a previously aversive situation 


16:00 Desensitization 


21:10 Negative Reinforcement as a temporary tool 


24:05 Relationship building outside of a “formal” training session 


28:40 Working with animals with low trust in the “trust account” 


31:55 Building relationships back up after doing something that takes away some trust (example: necessary medical procedure) 


36:05 Overcoming setbacks with animals that previously had traumatic experiences 


37:30 “Training Tale” 

This episode is a collaboration with AAZK (American Association of Zoo Keepers) for their "Spotlight on Aquariums Week". The guests for this episode are Sarah Snider-Keys from the Board of Directors of AAZK and Sarah (SK) Ivkovich from The Dolphin Research Center (DRC) as they discuss behavior management in an aquatic setting. Sarah and SK discuss some of the differences and challenges of working with purely aquatic species and some of the creative solutions and successes that come from an aquatic setting. This episode also touches on when and how to start training baby animals and training animals in a social group. Stay tuned in for a "Training Tale" about how a dolphin learned how to soar not from a trainer's approximations, but by watching and learning from another dolphin. For questions or suggestions about the podcast email ⁠⁠abc@theabma.org⁠⁠ or visit our website https://www.theabma.org To reach Sarah Snider- Keys email sarah.snider@aazk.org and to learn more about AAZK visit their website https://aazk.org To reach Sarah Ivkovich email sarah.ivkovich@dolphins.org Let's talk some training and banter about behavior!


2:50 Intro to Sarah Snider-Keys and SK Ivkovich 


4:25 Information about AAZK (American Association of Zoo Keepers) 


6:55 Spotlight on Aquariums Week 


10:20 Planning and implementing training in an aquatic setting 


15:05 Specific behaviors/techniques that are unique to purely aquatic species 


19:00 Advantages and challenges with habitats that are in the public view 


25:20 Training baby animals before food is a reinforcer/When should you start training? 


33:15 Social animals, group vs individual animal criteria


38:50 Enrichment opportunities in an aquatic setting


46:10 Advice for starting behavior programs with aquatic species 


52:30 “Training Tales”