Charles Hampden-Turner on Mobius leadership, reconciling paradoxes, dilemma strategies, and conscious capitalism (AC Ep38)

“Conscious Capitalism suggests that if you do good by accident, why not do good deliberately? Look at the accidents and start doing them on purpose.”

– Charles Hampden-Turner

About Charles Hampden-Turner

Dr. Charles Hampden-Turner is a British management philosopher, business consultant, and co-founder of consulting firm Trompenaars Hampden-Turner. He is the creator of dilemma theory and the author or co-author of numerous influential books, including Maps of the Mind, The Seven Cultures of Capitalism, and Mastering the Infinite Game. He is received many awards, including Guggenheim, Rockefeller and Ford Foundation Fellowships.

Website: www.thtconsulting.com

LinkedIn:

Charles Hampden-Turner

Fons Trompenaars at TROMPENAARS HAMPDEN-TURNER

Facebook: Trompenaars Hampden-Turner 

X (Twitter): @FTrompenaars

YouTube: Trompenaars Hampden-Turner

What you will learn

• Exploring the genesis of "Maps of the Mind"
• The power of paradox in understanding the human mind
• Reflecting on a career; tying together themes of management and leadership
• The Mobius strip as a metaphor for solving complex problems
• Addressing societal polarizations through integrated thinking
• The role of conscious capitalism in today's business world
• Visualizing paradoxes; the use of imagery in comprehending complex ideas

Episode Resources

Freud's ID and Superego

Jung's Collective Unconscious

Mobius Strip

Yin and Yang

Conscious Capitalism 

People

Mitchell Beasley (Publisher)

Gregory Bateson

R.D. Laing

W. Edwards Deming

Ray Anderson

Paul Polman

Books

Natural Capitalism by Paul Hawken, Amory Lovins, L. Hunter Lovins

Maps of the Mind: Charts and Concepts of the Mind and its Labyrinths by Charles Hampden-Turner

The Seven Cultures of Capitalism: Value Systems for Creating Wealth in Britain, the United States, Germany, France, Japan, Sweden and the Netherlands by Charles Hampden-Turner and Altons Trompenaars

Mastering the Infinite Game: How East Asian Values are Transforming Business Practices by Charles Hampden-Turner and Fons Trompenaars

Transcript

Ross Dawson: Charles, it's an honor and delight to have you on the show.

Charles Hampden-Turner: Well, good to meet you. And if I can help you let me know.

Ross: Thank you. So I first came across your work when I was in a bookshop in Geneva, Switzerland 1981 or 1982, it must have been, and I saw on the table, this book, which had maps of the mind, and it was immediately resonated with me, because what is, you know, the basic exploring all of these different models, what the mind is, and how we think and be able to not just explain those, but also to have a visual representation to show us what they were, and I've still got it, I still refer to it. And it really influences my thinking. It is so useful to have these maps of the mind to help us understand the way we think to bring that to life. So I'd love to just hear the genesis of maps of the mind and just some reflections back from quite a few years later on, on those wonderful projects you did.

Charles: Well, I knew Mitchell from Mitchell Beasley, and he was always producing encyclopedias, including the joy of sex and other things. And he said he wanted to do something on the mind. So I approached him and said, I could create 60 visions of the mind, all of which I, I loved and asking myself, why did I love them? It's because they were consistent because they had something in common. I hadn't in those days worked out what they had in common. But once I finished, I began to see what they have in common. What they have in common is that all paradoxes starting with Freud's ID and superego are about as different as you can get and Jung's collective unconscious and libido etc. And if you go all the way through the book, you'll find every map has a duality. And every map has a reconciliation of that duality. But I only realized that in retrospect, and I longed to add a chapter, explaining that the whole book is often a piece is part of an overall pattern.

Ross: I think your selection of the models in the book actually reflects that as in many of them are quite explicitly about paradoxes, such as Gregory Bateson or artie Lang or others that you chose. So I think that framing and the choices you made already, implicitly suggested that you had the pattern in your mind already.

Charles: Yes, I did. But you don't know what your subconscious is doing.

Ross: So you've written many books on management, cross cultural leadership, around the you know, essentially what it is that drives the value in organizations. And more recently, you are working on a book which ties you've said to me all of your life's work together. And so how, what is what is how, how could you tie together or pull together all of your threads of this marvelous work through your life? 

Charles: I was thinking about the German mathematician and Mobius. And he created the well known Mobius strip. And you give just one twist to a paper loop. And when you give one twist, suddenly, the sides disappear, there is no there is just one side, you can take a pen and draw all the way around and you will end up where you started. And there won't be any part of the loop that doesn't have a line on it. Or you can take an edge. You can follow the edge run with your finger and you will finish up where you started. It has gone from one strip with two sides and two edges to a noop. With one edge and one surface. And essentially you're moving in between. It's like yin yang, which has been Chinese folk wisdom for Centuries, and is probably partly responsible for economic progress. And, and it's also by its ying yang, but it's also like to you, you, you'll see red, you see green, but you'll never see red, that is not about to become green. And you'll never see green that is not abo