It Was What It Was : The Football History Podcast

The Overlap
  • 4.9 (520)
  • FOOTBALL
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Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

  1. 4 DAYS AGO

    Do I Not Like That! England's Downfall Under Graham Taylor | Part Two

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was. In today's episode, co-hosts Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson continue Graham Taylor’s England story as the 1994 World Cup qualifying begins to wobble, with Paul Gascoigne’s talent and volatility dominating the narrative. They examine how Taylor’s pragmatic, direct style—shaped by lower-league realities and later linked (often unfairly) to FA long-ball doctrine—collided with more technical European approaches, and how internal battles involving Charles Hughes and data pioneer Charles Reap poisoned the backdrop. England’s campaign lurches through a Norway draw at Wembley after a late stunner, a Gascoigne-inspired win over Turkey, and a damaging 2–2 draw with the Netherlands featuring an undetected elbow and a late penalty. With Gascoigne returning in a mask, England then stumble in a hostile Poland away match and escape with a late equaliser, before Taylor’s brutal “headless chickens” verdict leaves his team heading to Oslo under growing pressure. 00:24 Setting the Scene 03:08 Taylor’s Pragmatic Roots 06:50 Pressing vs Possession 10:04 Charles Hughes and the Winning Formula 13:55 Reap vs Hughes Fallout 19:31 Norway’s Long Ball Irony 21:59 Back to Qualifying Hopes 24:10 Gazza’s Norway Controversy 26:50 Taylor’s Gaza Dilemma 28:22 Norway Opener Heartbreak 30:53 Turkey Win and Dependence 32:53 Too Honest With Press 40:12 Dutch Clash at Wembley 44:13 Mask Return and Mania 45:52 Poland Chaos and Critique 49:03 Headless Chickens Finale Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    50 min

  2. 7 APR

    Do I Not Like That! England's Downfall Under Graham Taylor | Part One

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper continue on from last week’s episode with Jan Fjortoft to delve into how things went wrong for Graham Taylor during his time as England manager. In this first part of a three part series on Graham Taylor (following our episode with Fjortoft) we take a look at the high of Italia ’90 to the early warning signs of Graham Taylor’s troubled England reign, setting up the wider story of his eventual downfall. Central to the episode is Paul Gascoigne’s rise into “Gaza mania,” the off-field chaos and disciplinary problems that followed, including the 1991 FA Cup final knee rupture and subsequent setbacks. Taylor struggled to manage both the player and the circus around him. England qualified for Euro 1992 but drew twice, lost to Sweden and Taylor’s substitution of Gary Lineker became emblematic as tabloid ridicule culminate in a reputational collapse for Taylor. 01:05 The Impossible Job Era 07:39 Referees And Rotterdam 12:47 Italia 90 Reality Check 20:02 Gaza Mania Begins 25:31 Euro Qualifiers Begin 28:24 Ireland Away Selection 30:08 Taylor Press Tightrope 35:48 Cup Final Knee Rupture 41:46 Euro 92 Sweden Turning Point 42:55 Lineker Sub Controversy 47:50 Fitness Gap And Refuelling 49:32 Turnip Taylor Tabloid Sting Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    51 min

  3. 31 MAR

    Jan Åge Fjørtoft, on Norway + England's Nadir

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. Today co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by a very special returning guest - Jan Fjørtoft! In this episode, we will explore Norway’s remarkable rise in the early 1990s and their famous 2–0 win over Graham Taylor’s England in 1993. Fjørtoft explains how Egil “Drillo” Olsen took a previously struggling national team and built belief through a disciplined, direct style, carefully defined roles, and detailed match analysis using hand-written stats and video. The episode breaks down the key tactical choices that unsettled England, revisits both Norway goals, and follows the qualifier run that took Norway to their first World Cup since 1938. Norway will return to the World Cup this summer for the first time since 1998. This episode will be followed by a three part special on Graham Taylor. 01:12 Norway before the rise 04:09 Olsen arrives and stirs 06:47 Direct football philosophy 14:31 Stats and analysis 20:05 Defined roles and system 23:40 Beating England  28:12 Tactical switch  31:33 Gascoigne fitness factor 32:50 Olsen’s Selection Mind Games 37:20 Two Goals Breakdown 42:41 Road to USA 94 Sealed 45:45 Poland Night and Wild Celebrations 48:46 Heroes Welcome in Norway 52:04 World Cup Heat Prep Fiasco 59:59 Egil Olsen Legacy Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    1hr 3min
  4. World Cup Countdown: 1966 | Patreon Sneak Peek!

    25 MAR

    World Cup Countdown: 1966 | Patreon Sneak Peek!

    Today, Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper take you back to the 1966 FIFA World Cup. On home soil in England, the hosts claimed their first and only World Cup title. Captain Bobby Moore marshalled the side with composure, while Geoff Hurst rose to immortality with a historic hat-trick in the final. England’s triumph, sealed in a dramatic victory over West Germany, remains one of the most iconic moments in football history and the nations greatest footballing day. You can listen to the full episode on Patreon, along with the below privileges: BONUS EDITIONSExclusive deep dives, specials & extended conversations from one-off specials to extra episodes that expand on our weekly free shows, you’ll get fresh, members-only content - including our “Bonus Editions” strand where Rob and Jonathan go deeper into football’s biggest stories and hidden histories. WORLD CUP WEDNESDAYS!Our countdown to 2026 - every tournament revisited Join Rob and Jonathan as they walk through every World Cup from 1930 to today, exploring the drama, evolution, legends, controversies and cultural impact of each tournament. RETRO MAGAZINE COLLECTIONFlicking through the archives of classic football culture A nostalgic series diving into the pages of Shoot! and other retro football magazines - revisiting the stars, forgotten features, and football fandom of decades past. MONTHLY LIVE Q&A WITH ROB & JONATHANYour chance to ask two of football’s leading writers anything. Submit your questions about recent episodes, football history, their journalism, or upcoming projects — and hear their answers in our LIVE members-only Q&A. JOIN THE IT WAS COMMUNITYConnect with fellow fans & nostalgia lovers Meet other members who share your passion for football history. Be part of the conversation and help shape the future of the show. What’s includedExclusive contentQ&AsAd-free episodesPrivate community Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    18 min

  5. 24 MAR

    Clyde Best: Breaking Barriers in English Football

    Welcome to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. This week, co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by an extraudinary guest - Clyde Best. An absolute pioneer to the game, born in Bermuda, Clyde would become one of the first black players in First Division football in England. His new film, ‘Transforming the Beautiful Game: The Clyde Best Story’ will be shown for a week at Sadler’s Wells East from 25th March. In this episode, Clyde recounts arriving in England as a teenager, getting lost at West Ham station and being taken in by the Charles family. He reflects on his rise at West Ham, getting his debut against Arsenal under Ron Greenwood in 1969 and playing alongside the likes of Bobby Moore, Geoff Hurst and Martin Peters. Clyde talks of the his Bermuda upbringing, national team breakthrough and the influence that his father had on him. Best reflects on being one of the first prominent black players in English football, enduring racist abuse and an acid-attack threat and playing against Pelé. He also discusses NASL moves to Tampa Bay and Portland Timbers and the inspiration he provided players such as Ian Wright. 01:29 Lost at Heathrow 03:23 The Charles Family 06:59 Bermuda Beginnings 10:20 West Ham Dream 13:20 Ron Greenwood Impact 15:22 Fast Track Debut 18:35 Breaking Barriers 24:06 Facing Racism 31:03 Scoring Against Pelé 35:20 Leaving West Ham for the NASL 37:17 American Soccer Showmanship 43:01 Legacy as a Pioneer 46:57 Honorary Doctorate 49:44 His love for West Ham Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    52 min

  6. 17 MAR

    Drugs, Murder, And The World Cup Part 3: The Narco History Of Colombian Football

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this final part three of our three-part special on Colombian football and the tragedy of Andrés Escobar. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper tell the story of the 1994 World Cup and its devastating aftermath. This episode explores the immense and impossible pressure placed on the Colombian squad, from death threats delivered to hotel room TVs, to the chaos of a nation in civil war pinning all its hopes on eleven men. The discussion covers the Romania defeat, the fateful own goal against the USA, and the senseless murder of Andrés Escobar outside a nightclub. Rob and Jonathan also examine the legacy of Escobar 'the gentleman of football' and his remarkable fiancée Pamela Cascada, before reflecting on Colombia's long road to recovery and redemption. You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan. 01:00 Andrés Escobar's Posthumous Column in El Tiempo 01:55 Setting the Scene: The Narco State & Pablo Escobar's Death 06:55 Pablo Escobar's Deep Love of Football 10:55 Francisco Maturana on the Narcos: "Like an Octopus" 16:30 Andrés Escobar: El Caballero del Fútbol 20:25 A Move to AC Milan & The Burden of Representing Colombia 23:30 Higuita's Exclusion & The President's Calculations 26:00 The Romania Defeat: Hagi's Moment of Magic 27:45 Death Threats, Kidnappings & Maturana in Tears 33:00 The USA Game: Playing Under the Shadow of Snipers 35:30 The Own Goal & Colombia's Elimination 37:15 The Murder of Andrés Escobar 41:00 Who Killed Escobar? The Galón Brothers & the Cover-Up 44:45 The State Funeral & Pamela Cascada's Dignity 48:15 The Aftermath: Colombia's Slow Road to Redemption 51:45 2014 & The Restoration of Colombian Football Pride 54:15 Closing Thoughts Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    55 min
  7. BONUS SNEAK PEEK: Colombia Through Football ft. Professor Matthew Brown

    13 MAR

    BONUS SNEAK PEEK: Colombia Through Football ft. Professor Matthew Brown

    In this sneak peek to a bonus episode of It Was What It Was on Patreon, hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper are joined by Professor Matthew Brown (University of Bristol) to deepen the series on Andrés Escobar by tracing how Colombian history, political violence and the drug economy intersect with football. Brown rejects Gabriel García Márquez’s claim that three events defined 20th-century Colombia, while explaining why the 5–0 win over Argentina in 1993 became a tipping point for football as a national identity marker. The discussion covers football’s emergence alongside other sporting cultures, the role of sport after the 1948 Bogotazo and during La Violencia, and Colombia’s later shift into guerrilla conflict and cocaine trafficking. They explore cartel money’s social and sporting influence, the effects of Pablo Escobar’s death and subsequent violence, the symbolic damage of Colombia’s 1994 World Cup collapse, Copa América 2001, and how the 2014 team helped build trust during negotiations leading to the 2016 peace deal, while noting ongoing violence tied to the illegal drug trade. You can listen to the full episode on Patreon On Tuesday, Rob Draper and Jonathan Wilson return to round off the Colombia series and bring that story to a close. On Wednesday, on Patreon only, the co-hosts continue the World Cup countdown series with an episode on the 1962 World Cup in Chile, looking back at the tournament and some of its key moments. Then on Friday, also on Patreon only, we look back at when Northern Ireland faced Italy in the 1958 World Cup qualifiers. With Northern Ireland preparing for their 2026 World Cup play-off semi-final against Italy, Rob and Jonathan revisit the meeting where Northern Ireland qualified for their first World Cup and discuss the background to Ireland’s football split in the 1950s. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    18 min

  8. 10 MAR

    Drugs, Murder, And The World Cup Part 2: The Narco History Of Colombian Football

    Welcome back to It Was What It Was, the football history podcast. In this second part two of our three-part special on Colombian football and the tragedy of Andrés Escobar. Co-hosts Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper dissect one of the greatest World Cup qualifying matches ever played: Colombia's stunning 5-0 victory over Argentina at El Monumental in Buenos Aires. This episode explores the dramatic buildup to the match, the hostile reception faced by the Colombian team, and the extraordinary performance that shocked the football world. The discussion then examines the dangerous euphoria that followed, as Colombia began to believe that they could win the 1994 World Cup, and the dark realities of the narco state. You can listen to this episode ad-free over on our Patreon - Follow the link here - or go to Patreon.com and search for It Was What It Was. You will also get access to our World Cup countdown, magazine retrospectives and bonus episodes as well as a monthly Q&A with Rob and Jonathan. 01:39 Colombia's Mindset Before the Match & The Hostile Reception 04:07 The Lineup: Colombia vs Argentina at El Monumental 11:25 The Match Begins: Early Tension & Argentina's Miss 14:05 The Plane Incident: A Bizarre Moment at El Monumental 16:01 GOAL: Rincón Opens the Scoring  17:26 Maturana's Psychological Tactics at Half Time 18:05 GOAL: Asprilla Makes It 2-0 18:47 GOAL: Valencia Volleys In the Third 19:56 GOAL: Asprilla's Exquisite Curler Makes It 4-0 21:00 GOAL: Valencia Completes the Rout - 5-0 22:14 The Monumental Applauds Colombia Off the Pitch 24:32 The Celebrations: 100 Deaths & National Hysteria 30:55 "Now We're F***ed": The Burden of Expectation 33:19 World Champions Before the Tournament Begins 39:25 21 Friendlies & The Cash Grab 44:51 The Dark Side: Meeting With the Cali Cartel Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

    47 min
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Welcome to The Overlap's football history podcast, It Was What It Was. Each week Jonathan Wilson and Rob Draper will be talking about the key episodes in football history that have shaped the footballing world. The show will be discussing the best stories from football's past, giving insights to the personalities involved. the tales from behind the scenes and the impact they left. Join us at Football University! If you enjoy the podcast please hit subscribe to never miss an episode. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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