Kevin Eikenberry on flexible leadership, both/and thinking, flexor spectrums, and skills for flexibility (AC Ep72)

“To be a flexible leader is to make sense of the world in a way that allows you to intentionally ask, ‘How do I need to lead in this moment to get the best results for my team and the outcomes we need?’”

– Kevin Eikenberry

About Kevin Eikenberry

Kevin Eikenberry is Chief Potential Officer of leadership and learning consulting company The Kevin Eikenberry Group. He is the bestselling author or co-author of 7 books, including the forthcoming Flexible Leadership. He has been named to many lists of top leaders, including twice to Inc. magazine’s Top 100 Leadership and Management Experts in the World. His podcast, The Remarkable Leadership Podcast, has listeners in over 90 countries.

Website:

The Kevin Eikenberry Group

LinkedIn Profiles

Kevin Eikenberry

The Kevin Eikenberry Group

Book

Flexible Leadership: Navigate Uncertainty and Lead with Confidence

What you will learn

• Understanding the essence of flexible leadership
• Balancing consistency and adaptability in decision-making
• Embracing “both/and thinking” to navigate complexity
• Exploring the power of context in leadership strategies
• Mastering the art of asking vs. telling
• Building habits of reflection and intentionality
• Developing mental fitness for effective leadership

Episode Resources

People

• Carl Jung
• F. Scott Fitzgerald
• David Snowden

Book

• Flexible Leadership: Navigate Uncertainty and Lead with Confidence

Frameworks/Concepts

• Myers-Briggs
• Cynefin framework
• Confidence-competence loop

Organizations/Companies

• The Kevin Eikenberry Group

Technical Terms

• Leadership style
• “Both/and thinking”
• Compliance vs. commitment
• Ask vs. tell
• Command and control
• Sense-making
• Plausible cause analysis

Transcript

Ross Dawson: Kevin, it is wonderful to have you on the show.

Kevin Eikenberry: Ross, it’s a pleasure to be with you. I’ve had conversations about this book for podcasts. This is the first one that’s going to go live to the world, so I’m excited about that.

Ross: Fantastic. So the book is Flexible Leadership: Navigate Uncertainty and Lead with Confidence. What does flexible leadership mean?

Kevin: Well, that’s a pretty good starting question. Here’s the big idea, Ross: so many people have come up in leadership and taken assessments of one sort or another. They’ve done Strengths Finder or a leadership style assessment, and it’s determined that they are a certain style or type.

That’s useful to a point, but it becomes problematic beyond that. Humans are pattern recognizers, so once we label ourselves as a certain type of leader, we tend to stick to that label. We start thinking, “This is how I’m supposed to lead.”

To be a flexible leader means we need to start by understanding the context of the situation. Context determines how we ought to lead in a given moment rather than relying solely on what comes naturally to us.

Being a flexible leader involves making sense of the world intentionally and asking, “How do I need to lead in this moment to get the best results for my team and the outcomes we’re working towards?”

Ross: I was once told that Carl Jung, who wrote the typology of personalities that forms the foundation of Myers-Briggs, said something similar. I’ve never found the original source, but apparently, he believed the goal was not to fix ourselves at one point on a spectrum but to be as flexible as possible across it.

So, we’re all extroverts and introverts, sensors and intuitors, thinkers and feelers.

Kevin: Exactly. None of us are entirely one or the other on these spectrums. They’re more like continuums.

Take introvert vs. extrovert. Some people are at one extreme or the other, but no one is a zero on either side. The problem arises when we label ourselves and think, “This is who I am.” That may reflect your natural tendency, but it doesn’t mean that’s the only way you can or should lead.

Ross: One of the themes in your book is “both/and thinking,” which echoes what I wrote in Thriving on Overload. You can be both extroverted and introverted. I see that in myself.

Kevin: Me too. Our world is so focused on “either/or” thinking, but to navigate complexity and uncertainty as leaders, we must embrace “both/and” thinking.

1. Scott Fitzgerald once said something along the lines of, “The test of a first-rate intelligence is the ability to hold two opposing ideas in your mind at the same time and still function.” I’d say the same applies to leadership.

To be highly effective, leaders must consider seemingly opposite approaches and determine what works best given the context.

Ross: That makes sense. Most people would agree that flexible leadership is a sound idea. But how do we actually get there? How does someone become a more flexible leader?

Kevin: The first step is recognizing the value of flexibility. Many leaders get stuck on the idea of consistency. They think, “To be effective, I need to be consistent so people know what to expect from me.”

But flexibility isn’t the opposite of consistency. We can be consistent in our foundational principles—our values, mission, and core beliefs—while being adaptable in how we approach different situations.

Becoming a flexible leader requires three things:

1. Intention – Recognizing the value of flexibility.
2. Sense-making – Understanding the context and what it requires of us.
3. Flexors – Knowing the options available to us and deciding how to adapt in a given situation.

Ross: This aligns with my work on real-time strategy. A fixed strategy might have worked in the past, but in today’s world, we need to adapt. At the same time, being completely flexible can lead to chaos.

Kevin: Exactly. Leaders need to balance consistency and flexibility, knowing when to lean toward one or the other.

Leadership is about achieving valuable outcomes with and through others. This creates an inherent tension—outcomes vs. people. The answer isn’t one or the other; it’s both.

For every “flexor” in the book, the goal isn’t to be at one extreme of the spectrum but to find the balance that best serves the team and the context.

Ross: You’ve mentioned the word “flexor” a few times now. I think this is one of the real strengths of the book. It’s a really useful concept. So, what is a flexor?

Kevin: A flexor is the two ends of a continuum on something that matters. Let’s use an example.

On one end, we have achieving valuable outcomes. On the other end, we have taking care of people. Some leaders lean toward focusing on outcomes—getting the work done no matter what. Others lean toward prioritizing their people—ensuring their well-being and development so outcomes follow.

The reality is that leadership requires balancing both. Sometimes the context calls for one approach more than the other. For instance, in moments of chaos, compliance might be necessary to maintain safety or order. In other situations, you’ll need to inspire commitment for long-term success.

A leader must constantly assess the context and decide where to lean on the spectrum.

Ross: That’s a great example. Another one might be between “ask” and “tell.”

Kevin: Yes, exactly! Leaders often believe they need to have all the answers, so they default to telling—giving directives and expecting people to follow.

But sometimes, asking is far more effective. Your team members often have perspectives and information you don’t. By asking rather than telling, you gain insights, foster col