69 episodes

"Naylor's natter...just talking to teachers"

Podcast where my guests and I muse over the latest developments in teaching and learning , evidence and research, CPD and leadership.

I speak to teachers, leaders and experts in their fields.

Now proudly in association with the Teacher Development Trust

Any views expressed by me are mine and not necessarily those of my employers!

Naylor's Natter in association with TDT Phil Naylor

    • Education
    • 4.7, 34 Ratings

"Naylor's natter...just talking to teachers"

Podcast where my guests and I muse over the latest developments in teaching and learning , evidence and research, CPD and leadership.

I speak to teachers, leaders and experts in their fields.

Now proudly in association with the Teacher Development Trust

Any views expressed by me are mine and not necessarily those of my employers!

    The Difference with Kiran Gill and Putting Staff First with John Tomsett -discount code on PSF available inside

    The Difference with Kiran Gill and Putting Staff First with John Tomsett -discount code on PSF available inside

    We are spoiling you with another double issue! This week we have interviews with The Difference founder and CEO Kiran Gill and Headteacher and author John Tomsett.  WE ALSO HAVE A DISCOUNT CODE FOR PSF, LISTEN CAREFULLY! https://www.johncattbookshop.com/putting-staff-first

    About Kiran 

    Kiran is Founder and CEO of The Difference – an organisation which is creating a new generation of school leaders, specialist in improving outcomes for the most vulnerable children.Kiran began her career in inner-city London, as an English teacher in schools serving the most deprived postcodes in the country.  After five years on the frontline, Kiran left to work in education policy, searching for solutions to the rising number of vulnerable children who fall through the gaps.  Kiran was working at Social Mobility Commission when she conceived the idea for The Difference.  She has led its work full-time since January 2017.Kiran is driven by her own family experiences. Growing up with two adopted sisters, Kiran witnessed the long-term effects of childhood trauma and the lack of support for young people with complex needs. This insight is what keeps Kiran striving for the most vulnerable children to get the education they deserve.

    About John 

    John has been a teacher for 31 years, a Head teacher for 16 years. John is the author of 3 education books He is a frequent blogger and popular speaker.

    The natters in brief

    Kiran with Kathryn

    Brief introduction from Kathryn on Kiran, who she is and what she does.

    1. We know of Kiran Gill as Founder and CEO of The Difference but please tell listeners a little more about yourself and your journey from classroom teacher in inner-city London to CEO at The Difference.

    2. In what way did your insights from being a teacher in inner-city London inspire and motivate you to incubate your idea for The Difference?

    3. In 2017 you had raised enough capital to fund a research paper with think tank IPPR, to understand rising school exclusion and look for solutions to this growing problem. Tell listeners more about what that research entailed and what some of the headlines from the paper were.

    4. In 2018, you were asked to contribute to the DfE’s Timpson Review of school exclusions. What were some of the main headlines from that review and how did it further help to shape your thinking at The Difference?

    John with Phil 

    Recruiting the best

    1. No one wants to spend their career at odds with the organisation in which they work. Why is culture more important than money?

    2. Huntington school is well known and respected as a place where teachers can develop, how did you go about establishing that Staffs obligation to improve their practise is a non-negotiable?

    3. You go into detail about your process for selection, right through from providing the candidate with water rather than faffy tea or coffee through to the interview lesson. One section that struck me is the Storey you put in good subject knowledge. How important is subject expertise and can this be developed in the same way as pedagogy.

    Next week

    Pritesh Raichura on Michaela's The Power of Culture and Neil Reynolds on leadership in schools and football 





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    • 2 hrs 5 min
    The Teaching Delusion with Bruce Robertson AND Kathryn Morgan interviews Chloe Woodhouse and Caroline Spalding

    The Teaching Delusion with Bruce Robertson AND Kathryn Morgan interviews Chloe Woodhouse and Caroline Spalding

    This week sees another double-header which are proving very popular during Lockdown. We have Bruce Robertson in conversation with Phil about his John Catt book 'The Teaching Delusion' and Kathryn Morgan in conversation with Chloe Woodhouse and Caroline Spalding. We also have Michelle chatting to Maria in our TDT section on the use of expert knowledge. 

    About Bruce 

    Senior Leader of Teaching & Learning in the Scottish Borders | Author of 'The Teaching Delusion': https://amzn.to/2JnKPOa & https://bit.ly/3dLYL2r

    About Caroline

    Assistant Headteacher KS4, RSL & PP | Future Leaders cohort ‘19 |@SLTchat team member | Co-organiser @TeamEnglishNC @WomenEdEM Network Lead | Wrestling fan

    About Chloe

    Assistant Headteacher KS3 & PP |#TeamEnglish | SLE | PiXL associate | NPQSL | Co-organiser of @TeamEnglishNC | Geek | Comic book fan | Always on the dance floor

    The Natters

    The Teaching Delusion:

    Gentle introduction question, listeners will be familiar with you and your book 'The Teaching Delusion' from your summary in a previous podcast but could you tell us a little more about you and your career to date?
    BIG question starter , what is the purpose of school and a pertinent follow up is will this change as and when we return?
    'Learning in schools is different from learning without schools because learning in schools involves students working with professional teachers, it is the interaction between teachers and students that is the essence of schools' . What difference can teachers make and what are the key messages from educational literature and research?
    What are the key factors that lead to high quality student learning?
    Which teacher and leader mindsets enhance a strong professional learning culture?
    Something I'm very interested in is creating a professional learning culture. How do you suggest listeners can enhance their PLC?
    Lesson observation and evaluation remains controversial , could you tell listeners about your lesson evaluation toolkit and the 'instructional model' suggested by Peter Cole?
    How important is lesson planning and how do you suggest using the lesson evaluation toolkit to support lesson planning?

    TDT Section 

    Michelle interviews Maria on the use of expert knowledge . http://tdtrust.org/

    Lockdown Learning 

    This week it is Kraftwerk's Computer World, Dickens (again) with David Copperfield and NO film review!

    Coming up

    Katie Ashford and Pritsesh Raichura on the new Michaela book 'The Power of Culture' 

    John Tomsett on 'Putting Staff First' 

    The Naylors Natter app!

    Download it here to keep up to date with all episodes, blogs and updates https://3787413.igen.app/


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    • 1 hr 54 min
    'Closing the Reading Gap' with Alex Quigley and 'Courage in The Classroom' with Dr Catherine Lee

    'Closing the Reading Gap' with Alex Quigley and 'Courage in The Classroom' with Dr Catherine Lee

    This week we are treating you the listeners to another bumper double edition. We are delighted to have interviews with the authors of 2 new education books , namely Alex Quigley and Dr Catherine Lee . Alex is interviewed by Bernie Kaye, a fantastic new addition to our NN team , Bernie is an English teaching uber geek with a passion for cooking, reading and festival going. AHT - ITT, research & literacy. We have all our usual features including  our TDT section http://tdtrust.org/and Lockdown Learning. 

    About Alex

    I am National Content Manager at the EEF, supporting teachers to access research evidence. After over fifteen years in the classroom, I now support from outside the school gates.

    Closing the reading gap 

    So, what is the reading gap? It is a teacher knowledge gap, but more importantly, it is the gap that exists between reading access, reading practice and reading ability for the pupils in our schools. It marks out the ‘reading rich’ and the ‘reading poor’ populate all of our schools.

    The gap is writ large when we explore the evidence. Take reading access. Recent research from the National Literacy Trust shows that 1 in 11 children own a book of their own. A mere 1 in 8 disadvantaged children own a book. I think about the impact of those empty bookshelves (in all likelihood, there is no bookshelf at all) for pupils.

    Then when you explore school attainment, you can see the gap and the daily damage that is suffered by many pupils. When you consider that only 73% of pupils leaving primary school reached the expected level for reading in 2019, it is clear that many of those pupils will struggle to access the secondary school curriculum.

    I never expected two years ago that this book would be published during a global crisis that would see pupils impacted by school closures. When you wed closures to limited book access, limited teaching, along with limited support at home, the prospect for the reading gap is massively challenging.

    I hope that this book – and the free related resources – offer some useful guidance for teachers and schools during this challenging time. It should provide handy CPD, now and as schools bounce back to support our pupils.

    You can purchase the book from the following.

    Amazon link HERE

    You can find 5 free resources to go with the book on my RESOURCES page HERE.

    About Catherine

    UK Pride Power List 2019. Diva Award finalist 2020. Deputy Dean at Anglia Ruskin University.

    Courageous Leaders 

    We are all at our most effective when we can be ourselves at work, but more than half of LGBT teachers hide their sexual identity within their school workplace. For LGBT teachers, vigilance, concealment and assimilation, take a great deal of energy, on top of what is already a very demanding job.

    Through personal testimonies, advice and a rousing call to arms, this book shows how LGBT School Leaders are often amongst the most inclusive, creative, adaptable and intuitive colleagues, when they are able to flourish and be their authentic selves. 

    The book is available here: https://www.johncattbookshop.com/courage-in-the-classroom

    Coming Soon- John Tomsett and The Power of Culture by Michaela School  

    promo code of PSF40 for listeners to get 40% off Putting Staff First by John and Jonny Utley , our previous guest . 


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    • 1 hr 56 min
    Bumper double edition #teacher5aday with Martyn Reah AND education and culture blogger @mimmerr Molly

    Bumper double edition #teacher5aday with Martyn Reah AND education and culture blogger @mimmerr Molly

    A special double edition this week featuring Martyn and Molly . Martyn's natter is PRE lockdown (Feb half-term) and Molly's is a lockdown recording

    Martyn Reah : about Martyn in his own words:https://martynreah.wordpress.com/about/

    After 20 years of working as a teacher I have decided to put pen to paper and record the things which interest me and hopefully others. Born in Chester and brought up in Sunderland I now call Petersfield home. After starting my career in the East Midlands promotion moved me north to Yorkshire. Family commitments dragged me kicking and screaming south to Hampshire where my four children keep me busy with some spare time available for enjoying sport.

    The natter:

    1) journey to this point gentle intro - from 1994 and a roller chalk board to 2020 !  2) tell us about the origins of #teacher5aday and the need for the movement  3) could you take listeners through each of 5 areas ?  4) this year saw the first #teacher5aday week in December . Could you share with us some of the activities that took place and who was involved? 5) how could/should leaders involve #teacher5aday in their schools? 6) what is a slow chat and how can listeners get involved ?  7) what is the #pledge ?  8) you now have a steering group , who is involved and what is their remit ?  9) pedagoohampshire has been a big success for a few years now . Is it back again this year and who’s speaking?  10) are you still running every day? Some achievement!! 11) could you signpost listeners to your blog/website etc ?

    Molly: about Molly @Mimmer in her own words :https://mimmerr.co.uk/

    Molly, 20-something Londoner, teacher.
    I write about fashion ethics, music, education, social inequality and TV.
    Press & business:
    Email: molly@mimmerr.co.uk  Twitter: @mimmerr.

    The natter:

    Music is a big part of my life and we have a weekly section (which you kindly contributed to last week) tell listeners who you think are worth the hype and does me liking arcade fire make me an ageing hipster ?Could you tell listeners about your folding paper project , what is your aim with this and how can listeners get involved ?   You are also posting about a daily writing challenge , what themes have you explored so far ?   You are also an accomplished interviewer and have interviewed some leaders in education . I particularly enjoyed talk to teachers :tiny voices and tiny voice Tuesday . How do you (and Toria) think we can improve edutwitter ?Teacher workload is a topic we have returned to many times on here . Shouts to Kat Howard and Martyn Reah who’ve done great work in this area . What do you think is causing teacher workload and what can we do ? Also do you think the current situation has created more unnecessary workload for staff ?   Where can listeners find out more ? Signpost to social media ( tumblr for example may be new to some ?) .

    TDT Section- Maria and Michelle on Needs Analysis

    Lockdown learning 

    Books- Robert Webb


    Film- The Astronaut

    John Catt- upcoming episodes featuring 'The Teaching Delusion' and 'Courage in the Classroom' available with #naylorsnatter discount here :https://www.johncattbookshop.com/

    Next week- Alex Quigley 


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    • 1 hr 30 min
    Leadership with Neil Gilbride interviewed by Emma Turner

    Leadership with Neil Gilbride interviewed by Emma Turner

    This week sees a welcome return to the interviewers chair for Emma Turner . This week she is in conversation with Neil Gilbride and they are discussing all things leadership. This interview was recorded on 16th March in a pre-lockdown UK so please be aware of that when listening. 

    About Neil in his own words:

    I am currently a PhD student at the University of Bath, Lecturer in Education at the University of Gloucestershire and consultant with Neil Gilbride Consultancy.

    I have a unique, multi-sector experience as both a practitioner and researcher. I have over 12 years professional experience across the public, voluntary and private sectors as a teacher, researcher, middle leader, school social worker, carer, counsellor and governor.   My academic background is equally diverse – stretching from Biomedical Science, Special Educational Needs through to the Leadership Development and Organisational Behaviour. In working with individuals and organisations,  my multi-disciplinary background delivers new insights and fresh ways of thinking.

    Primarily, I am a psychologist. In my work, I apply the principles of psychology to leadership, people development, inclusion and organisational behaviour.  My cutting-edge research is looking at the role adult development plays in how leaders think, feel and behave. Please go to the ‘ego development‘ page to find out more.

    I am available for consultancy through my business, Neil Gilbride Consulting. Please do click here to see what I might have to offer you and your organisation.

    Lockdown Learning (previously Podcast Pedagogy)

    In music- Gerry Cinnamon's 'The Bonny' on Vinyl 

    Films on streaming - 'Trolls World Tour'

    Books- A Tale of Two Cities by Charles Dickens

    Shameless Plugs from our partners and sponsors 

    TDT connectUp is a great resource with some amazing speakers - http://tdtrust.org/cpdconnectup

    John Catt bookshop has some amazing new titles in stock and #naylorsnatter mentions in a tweet will unlock your discount code  https://www.johncattbookshop.com/

    ResearchEd Home is the place to be at 11am if you can get on! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1awWjuY1Jb4

    As ever , if you would like to be part of the show as a lockdown learner or as a guest , please get in touch via our website www.naylorsnatter.co.uk

    or email p3nay91@gmail.com 

    See you next week!



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    • 1 hr 8 min
    How Learning Happens- with Dr. Carl Hendrick and Prof. Dr. Paul Kirschner

    How Learning Happens- with Dr. Carl Hendrick and Prof. Dr. Paul Kirschner

    This week I am back in the interviewers chair to have a natter with 2 titans of education namely:
    Paul A. Kirschner is Emeritus Professor of Educational Psychology at the Open University of the Netherlands as well as Guest Professor at the Thomas More University of Applied Science in Belgium.
    Carl Hendrick teaches at Wellington College, UK, and holds a PhD in Education from King’s College London.
    We are discussing their new book 'How Learning Happens- Seminal Works in Educational Psychology and what they mean in practice' . Here is Carl's introduction to the book:  
    "Almost two years ago, I was asked by Professor Paul Kirschner to write a book with him. The original title was ‘Standing on the Shoulders of Giants’ and the basic premise was to discuss what we felt were the foundational works in education psychology and present them to educators in a way that would hopefully inform their practice. To be asked by someone of Paul’s stature was a huge honour for me and I really enjoyed reading through almost 100 years of the best evidence on learning and the weekly meetings over Skype talking about the book (and football).
    The chapters are divided into six sections. In the first section we describe how our brains work and what that means for learning and teaching. This is followed by sections on the prerequisites for learning, how learning can be supported, teacher activities, and learning in context. When we got near the end of the book we thought it would be good to provide some cautionary tales so in the final section we discuss what can only be described as educational Novichok in a chapter called ‘The Seven Deadly Sins of Education’ which you can download for free here."
    It comes highly recommended!
    “So often I’ve been asked to recommend a starting text for educators interested in the workings of the mind―now I have one. The text Kirschner and Hendrick offer alongside each seminal article does a wonderful job of situating the content in the broader scientific context, and in the classroom.”
    – Daniel Willingham, Professor of Psychology and Director of Graduate Studies, University of Virginia

    “As the volume of research into psychology and education grows, it becomes ever harder for researchers, let alone teachers, to keep up with the latest findings. Moreover, striking results often turn out to be difficult, or impossible to replicate. What teachers need, therefore, is good guidance about research that has stood the test of time, and practical guidance about how these well-established findings might be used to inform teaching practice, and this is why this is such an extraordinary, wonderful and important book. Paul Kirschner and Carl Hendrick have selected the most important research publications in the psychology of education, and, for each publication, they have provided a summary of the research, the main conclusions, and a series of practical suggestions for how the findings might inform teaching practice. I know of no other book that provides such a rigorous, accessible and practical summary of the last fifty years of research in educational psychology, and anyone who wants to understand how research can improve teaching needs to read this book. Highly recommended.”
    – Dylan Wiliam, Emeritus Professor of Educational Assessment, University College London

    We also have Podcast pedagogy with The Strokes, Tiger King and Ulysses!


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    • 1 hr 5 min

Customer Reviews

4.7 out of 5
34 Ratings

34 Ratings

teb1913 ,

Sound quality

Interesting enough content but constant crap sound quality is frustrating.

John Wm Stephens ,

Topical, entertaining and authentic

I look forward to these podcasts because they bring together many different perspectives on current 'hot topics'. The contributions are genuinely conversational but tackle some tricky issues in well-informed ways using a relaxed, easy tone that, even so, never lacks depth.

EmilyP1005 ,

Great listen!

Really accessible and perfect for a commute, Naylors Natter is a great blend of conversation, CPD and research informed strategy.

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