Product Chats Podcast Pragmatic Institute

 Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJI2Tv2yxOLBI02nyJoprA Learn more about us: https://www.pragmaticinstitute.com/ Start your Product Manager or Product Marketer certification here“It's all about setting up the right expectations with the company or the early user. So, it's not just giving it to them. It’s about being clear about what you expect in return early in the process.”
-      Neil Baron, B2B Product Management Consultant, Founder of Baron Strategic Partners
Join us for a critical discussion with Neil Baron and Rod Griffith, following their recent article in the Harvard Business Review (read it here) on extracting the full value of early user programs.
This episode unpacks the nuances of designing early user programs that go beyond mere functionality checks to validate problem-solving, target accuracy, and accelerate market readiness. The conversation delves into the importance of having a dedicated program owner (not a dictator) and the necessity of involving cross-functional teams to capture diverse perspectives.
Neil and Rod outline a five-step process for a successful program, from hypothesis definition and participant selection to setting clear expectations and leveraging feedback for product and go-to-market enhancements. Highlighting the tangible outcomes of well-executed early user programs, Neil and Rod share how these strategies have led to fast revenue times, increased sales confidence, and enhanced media coverage.Key Takeaways:
1. Importance of Early User Programs: The discussion highlights the significance of early user programs in understanding market problems that a product can solve. It emphasizes that these programs should not be viewed in isolation but as part of a holistic approach to product development and market understanding.
2. Cross-Functional Collaboration: For an effective early user program, there needs to be cross-functional input and it should be considered as a critical step in the process. This requires buy-in from senior management and proper incentivization across the organization.
3. Value Proposition and Feedback: Early user programs are not only about the product, but also about understanding the customer experience, the messaging, and the value proposition. It's vital to set up a give-and-get relationship with early users, ensuring they understand the benefits they will get, and the company gets valuable feedback and data.ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Neil Barron is the founder of Baron Strategic Partners, a consulting firm that helps B2B companies accelerate growth. He is also involved in running two forums for product executives, the Product Leadership Council in conjunction with Pragmatic, and the Boston Product Executive Forum, which is run in conjunction with the Boston Product Management Association.
With a wealth of experience in product leadership and management, Neil is passionate about helping companies create effective strategies for success.
Rod Griffith is the Chief Client Officer and Co-Founder of MarketReach, inc., a B2B marketing services company that designs and manages marketing programs, campaigns, and sales tools for a variety of technology companies. With a background in computer industry segment management and product management, Rod uses his experience to help companies translate their strategies into practical and successful market-facing activities. He is deeply involved in sharing his insights and learnings through various forums, including the Product Leadership Council and collaborations with Pragmatic.
ABOUT PRAGMATIC INSTITUTE:
Since 1993, we’ve provided training and professional development for product, design, and data professionals to accelerate innovation, increase customer satisfaction, and bolster revenue. Through our comprehensive methods and proprietary Pragmatic Framework, we train professionals with the skills needed to accelerate their product management and product marketing careers, increase team efficiency, and bo

 Subscribe: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCNJI2Tv2yxOLBI02nyJoprA Learn more about us: https://www.pragmaticinstitute.com/ Start your Product Manager or Product Marketer certification here
“The first thing I would recommend everyone to do who has an interest in the AI space, and I think lots of people have an interest in this space, is you should be using generative AI tools in your life every day as much as you can, and really remind yourself how much of a difference it can make.”
-      Isaac Lien, Co-Founder and Chief Artificial Intelligence and Innovation Officer at Grandpad
In this enlightening episode, we dive deep with Isaac Lien, Co-founder and Chief AI and Innovation Officer at GrandPad, exploring the company's strategic incorporation of generative AI to enhance their offerings for the senior market. Lien shares the journey of testing and integrating AI technologies within their product, GrandPad, highlighting how a user-directed approach has fundamentally shaped both the development and marketing strategies.
Isaac Lien, Co-founder of Grandpad, initially developed a math flashcards app for iPhone inspired by Steve Jobs. Motivated by communication challenges with his grandparents, he created Grandpad, facilitating video calls for the elderly. Recognizing the power of technology to improve lives, Grandpad later introduced "Grandie," which use AI to help seniors engage in seamless conversations, find inspiration, and discover new interests in an intuitive and user-friendly manner. The team focuses on effective communication and user engagement, incorporating popular games and news topics into Grandpad's offerings.
Looking ahead, Isaac anticipates evolving generative AI technologies, and emphasizes the importance of user feedback to guide feature enhancements. By staying informed and exploring new tools, it’s possible to capitalize on industry advancements.
Key Takeaways:
1. User Feedback is King: User feedback plays a critical role in Grandpad's product development. They have a group of users who actively advise them on what to build, ensuring that the product continuously evolves to meet the needs of their customers.
2. Market Solutions, Not Features: Marketing for Grandpad's AI-powered features is centered around Simon Sinek's "Start with Why" approach. They focus on explaining why the product is important and beneficial for their users, before diving into the technical details of how it works. The solution is what users really care about.
3. Know Your Audience Intimately: Grandpad emphasized the importance of deeply understanding their target audience and creating a product that specifically caters to their needs. In their case, they focused on older adults and designed a user-friendly product that addresses their unique challenges with technology.
ABOUT OUR GUEST:
As the Co-Founder and Chief Artificial Intelligence and Innovation Officer at Grandpad, Isaac Lien brings a deep understanding of technology and a passion for making it accessible to older adults. With a background in computer science, he has been instrumental in the development of Grandpad's user-friendly tablet solutions designed specifically for the unique needs of this demographic.
Isaac's expertise in artificial intelligence and his dedication to incorporating user feedback have been key drivers in Grandpad's success. He has consistently leveraged advanced technologies, such as generative AI, to enhance the user experience and provide personalized, human-like interactions. Through his leadership, Grandpad has become a pioneer in utilizing AI to create more intuitive and engaging experiences for its users.
At the core of Isaac's work is a commitment to making technology accessible and inclusive for all users, particularly older adults. He has dedicated his career to developing solutions that empower and enrich the lives of users, ensuring they can seamlessly connect with their loved ones, access information, and enjoy a wide ra

“There are so many factors that really affect conversion that start before a customer even begins to think about purchasing from a brand. Every element of a brand's website tells the consumer something about what you do and impacts if the consumer buys from you.”
Jon MacDonald, founder of The Good and author of Behind the Click
In this episode of Product Chats, Jon MacDonald, founder of The Good and author of "Behind the Click," shares invaluable insights into the intersection of psychological principles and digital optimization.
 
With a rich history of improving online brand experiences for giants like Adobe and Nike, MacDonald emphasizes the significance of understanding user psychology in design and product development. He argues for the removal of negative experiences from the internet (which keeps him busy), advocating for a holistic approach to customer experience that begins well before purchase.
 
Through a mix of qualitative research and quantitative data analysis, including heat maps and eye tracking, MacDonald reveals how design heuristics, when grounded in psychological understanding, can significantly improve site usability, onboarding, and retention.
 
The episode not only unpacks the tension between design and product teams but also offers strategies for alignment and empathy towards user goals and challenges.Key Takeaways:
 
Common Problems Between Product and Design: Tensions between designers and product teams often arise from unclear roles and a lack of understanding about each other's decisions, making teamwork difficult. To improve this, align both teams on user and customer goals to improve collaboration. Additionally, bringing in a third party for an unbiased view can help solve misunderstandings and bring teams closer.
 
Psychological Principles Behind Consumer Decisions: The discussion highlights how psychological concepts, like "heuristics," impact how consumers make quick decisions online. Jon stresses the importance of first impressions in digital spaces, noting that a bad initial experience can harm a brand's image long-term. Additionally, he mentions that consumers favor straightforward and concise information, suggesting the use of bullet points for clarity. Understanding these principles is crucial for creating intuitive and appealing digital experiences for users.
 
How to Improve User Experience: Jon outlines steps to improve user experience, focusing on consumer research. He suggests monitoring user interactions on websites, conducting tests, and direct conversations to grasp consumer choices. He introduces the "coffee shop test," where a random person's feedback on an app or website is sought for intuitive understanding. Jon emphasizes ongoing optimization and regular engagement with users for external insights. The aim is to streamline the decision-making process for consumers by removing hurdles.ABOUT OUR GUEST:Jon MacDonald is the founder of The Good, a leading digital experience optimization firm known for achieving excellent results for some of the largest online brands, including Adobe, Nike, Xerox, and The Economist.
 
His expertise lies in understanding consumer behaviors and preferences and leveraging this understanding to optimize digital experiences. Apart from being a seasoned entrepreneur, Jon is also an accomplished author, with three books on optimization under his belt. His latest book, "Behind the Click", provides further insights into his approach to digital experience optimization.
 
Listeners can get free access to the first chapter of his book here.
 
ABOUT PRAGMATIC INSTITUTE:
Since 1993, we’ve provided training and professional development for product, design, and data professionals to accelerate innovation, increase customer satisfaction, and bolster revenue. Through our comprehensive methods and propriety Pragmatic Framework, we train professionals with the skills needed to accelerate their product management and product marketing careers, incr

“Community-driven product development is not just about getting feedback, but about integrating community members and customers into the product development cycle itself.”
Jake McKee, Community Driven Product Management Leader
In this episode of Product Chats, we welcome Jake McKee, pioneer in community-driven product innovation. Jake delves into the transformative approach of weaving community insights into the product development fabric, aiming for products that resonate deeply with users.He outlines a strategy for seamlessly integrating community members into the development journey. At the heart of this integration is transparency around objectives, coupled with the strategic selection of community contributors based on their expertise and engagement levels. Timing, Jake emphasizes, is crucial in bringing these voices into the fold.
 
Jake's guidance for companies includes a careful examination of their product development cycles to identify opportunities for community inclusion. He champions the shift towards relationship-building activities, advocating for a move away from transactional interactions to foster deeper connections with the community. This, he argues, necessitates a reevaluation of risk-averse mindsets, encouraging organizations to balance the potential risks with the significant rewards of community involvement.
 
Jake advocates for a deliberate approach to community engagement in product development, pinpointing ideation and testing as key phases for involvement. Highlighting the importance of seeing these engagements as opportunities to build relationships, he suggests that companies stand to gain immensely by integrating community perspectives, thereby enriching the product development process.
 
KEY INSIGHTS
1.  Community Integration in Product Development: Jake shares his blueprint for weaving community and customer insights into the product development cycle. Whether on-site visits or individual interviews, the goal is to embrace the community's viewpoint and ensure their feedback significantly influences the project. Jake underscores the necessity of structured engagement throughout the project's lifespan.
 
2.  Clear Outcomes and Communication: Jake advises on the importance of clear communication with community members regarding the impact of their involvement. Viewing interactions as relational rather than transactional enriches the development process, fostering a collaborative atmosphere akin to internal brainstorming sessions.
 
3.  Feedback Management and Engagement Activities: Jake points out the crucial role of efficient feedback management and engagement strategies. Activities should balance functional and emotional aspects to maintain community engagement and a positive rapport. From formal presentations to casual team-building events, the aim is to manage feedback without overwhelming the product team, providing structured feedback channels.
 
4.  Initiating Integration and Overcoming Risk-averse Thinking: Jake motivates listeners to evaluate their product development processes for community integration opportunities. Starting with a small, familiar group or community leaders can pave the way for meaningful engagement.ABOUT OUR GUEST:Jake McKee's background in web development and product design influenced his approach to community-driven product development. It gave him a thorough understanding of the product development process and the factors that can sway the course of a project, including team bias, personal interest, and internal requirements.It also opened his eyes to the power of communities and the potential they hold for product development.
 
With an impressive career in the community space, he has built communities for renowned brands such as Apple, Lego, and South by Southwest. McKee has spent a significant portion of his career building out community-driven product development and currently runs a consulting practice that works with these methodolog

“If product managers are supposed to put a product on the shelf, product marketing is supposed to take it off the shelf.”
Anubhav Rao, Product Marketing at AWS
In this episode of Product Chats, we are joined by Anubhav Rao, Product Marketer at Amazon Web Services (AWS) for a discussion on the implications of AI in product marketing. Anubhav highlights how AI can lower the technical barrier for building products, leading to a cluttered market with numerous solutions. Differentiation and reaching the right audience become crucial for success.
 
Anubhav believes product marketing will play a key role in helping companies differentiate themselves in a crowded market. Product marketers can use AI to automate operational tasks related to customer insights, feedback collection, go-to-market strategies, and personalization at scale in closed communities.
 
The conversation explores transparency and authenticity when using AI tools, stressing the importance of maintaining a human touch despite leveraging automation. Rao explores using competitor analysis using AI to understand successful strategies and audience needs for product development. Utilizing advanced analytics powered by AI streamlines reporting and data analysis, allowing product marketers to focus on creativity and differentiation.
 
Tune in to uncover innovative strategies that blend AI's efficiency with the human insight essential for standout product marketing.Key Takeaways:
1. Leveraging Product Marketing to Stand Out: Rao discusses the potential of AI to simplify product creation and scaling, emphasizing the need for product marketing to differentiate products in an increasingly crowded market. Product marketers can succeed by focusing on niche verticals, unique value propositions, and building strong emotional connections with customers.
 
2. Chatbots Gone Wrong: Rao explores how AI can enhance personalization in marketing, highlighting the potential of AI in expanding distribution channels and delivering targeted content. He illustrates the power of AI in revolutionizing customer interactions, but how it can also go wrong (see Air Canada’s chatbot fiasco).
 
3. The Trust Matrix: The conversation steers towards the ethical considerations of using AI, stressing the importance of maintaining authenticity and trust in a world of automated interactions. Despite technological advancements, the basics of understanding your product and audience remain crucial in effective product marketing.
 
ABOUT OUR GUEST:Anubhav Rao is a product marketing expert at Amazon, with a background in computer science and a passion for storytelling. Rao's unique career trajectory took him from filmmaking to marketing in India's burgeoning content media space, before moving to Los Angeles for his MBA.
 
His diverse experiences have shaped his approach to product marketing, with a strong focus on differentiation, distribution, and leveraging technology for growth.
 
Anubhav’s blend of technical knowledge, creative thinking, and business acumen allows him to understand and communicate the value proposition of complex products effectively.
 
ABOUT PRAGMATIC INSTITUTE:Since 1993, we’ve provided training and professional development for product, design, and data professionals to accelerate innovation, increase customer satisfaction, and bolster revenue. Through our comprehensive methods and propriety Pragmatic Framework, we train professionals with the skills needed to accelerate their product management and product marketing careers, increase team efficiency, and boost revenue.Our online, in-person, and on-demand courses are taught by industry experts with decades of experience at top companies like Microsoft, Cisco, Dell, Hallmark, Quaker Oats, and Dun & Bradstreet. We offer individual course training in product, design and data, and certification tracks for Product Management Certifications, Product Marketing Certifications, and the Pragmatic Product Master Certification.

"Just start! People are going to hate your product at the start, but you will learn, and you will get better. Failure is a way of learning."- Sean Gigremosa, Product Leader and CEO of ClaritivIn this episode of Product Chats, we are joined by Sean Gigremosa, a product leader, agile expert, innovation enthusiast, self-described product management ninja and CEO and founder of Claritiv. The conversation delves into the challenges and opportunities in product management, the importance of understanding customer needs, and the role of AI in extracting valuable insights from conversations.Key Takeaways:
Talking Points: The conversation emphasizes the crucial role that dialogue plays in acquiring knowledge and generating insights. Sean underscores that 70% of knowledge is learned through conversation. However, notes from a conversation are like a game of telephone where each summary incorporates layers of potential bias. This is an issue because the actual problem could get lost.
That’s why he started Claritiv – an AI powered tool that listens and analyzes conversations across clients, prospects, and departments, allowing you to both pull analysis on specific topics, and find out what emerging topics are important.
Bias in Disguise: Sean shares the importance of removing personal bias in interpreting customer conversations, arguing that AI can provide a more objective analysis of these interactions. AI is only as good as the data being used to train, so believability and accuracy need to be regularly and continually reviewed. Just like children, AI can take on our biases.
Digital Twins, Not Identical: Digital twins are extremely valuable for product managers due to their capacity for detailed simulation and scenario testing. A digital twin is a virtual model that replicates a physical product or system. It can be used to run simulations to predict how a product or system might behave under different conditions. Digital twins can also be used to model and understand user behavior, helping product managers to better design products that meet user needs.ABOUT OUR GUEST:
Sean Gigremosa is a product leader with expertise in agile methodologies and a passion for innovation. His journey from product manager to CEO provides him with unique insights into the challenges and opportunities in the field. Known for his ninja-like approach to product management, Sean is the CEO and founder of Claritiv, a company that strives to extract valuable insights from conversations using AI.
Discover more about Sean's work and Claritiv at Claritiv.ai for a free trial and experience how AI-powered tools can prioritize product insights from customer conversations.
ABOUT PRAGMATIC INSTITUTE:
Since 1993, we’ve provided training and professional development for product, design, and data professionals to accelerate innovation, increase customer satisfaction, and bolster revenue. Through our comprehensive methods and propriety Pragmatic Framework, we train professionals with the skills needed to accelerate their product management and product marketing careers, increase team efficiency, and boost revenue.
Our online, in-person, and on-demand courses are taught by industry experts with decades of experience at top companies like Microsoft, Cisco, Dell, Hallmark, Quaker Oats, and Dun & Bradstreet. We offer individual course training in product, design and data, and certification tracks for Product Management Certifications, Product Marketing Certifications, and the Pragmatic Product Master Certification. All attendees gain access to the Pragmatic Alumni Community, a network of over 30,000 alumni worldwide.
If you’re looking for product management or product marketing training or are pursuing a product marketing certification or product management certification, browse our certification paths at https://www.pragmaticinstitute.com/product/. Courses are available online, in-person, or on-demand to fit your schedule.
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