Resist and Renew Resist and Renew

Season 2 episode 15 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we interview Aviah. A sneaky extra episode after the season closer! It took us a while to get back together.



Aviah is a lecturer at Birkbeck, University of London, and is a community organiser the rest of the time. She is involved in the East End branch of Sisters Uncut, a national direct-action collective fighting cuts to domestic violence services as well as state violence. She is also involved in Hackney Copwatch, London Renters Union and the Kill the Bill Coalition, a national movement resisting the Police, Crime and Sentencing Bill.

“Effectively, if you can organise enough people to [know their rights and intervene] in a coordinated way, then you can actually withdraw consent from policing altogether”

- Aviah

Show notes, links



* Netpol: the network for police monitoring

* Newham Monitoring Project, which shut down in 2016 after running for 36 years

* United Families and Friends Campaign, a coalition of people affected by deaths in state custody.

* There are Copwatch groups in Hackney, Bristol, Manchester, Lambeth, Liverpool, Southwark, Haringey, and Cardiff.

* the Anti-Raids Network, community resistance to immigration raids



To find out about Copwatch, if you're considering getting involved: either DM an existing group (accounts listed above) or email sistersuncut@gmail.com!



We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there's always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe!





Transcript

SAMI:

Hello everybody and welcome to this sneaky extra episode of The Resist and Renew Podcast, where we are interviewing Aviah. Do you want to say hi?



AVIAH:

Hi.



SAMI:

Seamless. So Aviah is a lecturer, at Birkbeck, which is part of the University of London, and also does a lot of community organizing, and she's involved in the East End branch of Sisters Uncut, which is one branch of a national organization that's like a direct action collective fighting cuts to domestic violence services, and other forms of state violence, and Aviah is also involved in local branches of CopWatch so Hackney CopWatch and London Renters Union, and is also involved Kill the Bill coalition - a national movement resisting the Policing Crime and Sentencing Bill that is currently going through the parliamentary organs, as we record this in early March, 2022.



SAMI:

So first things first.. Aviah what can you say about the political context that you are organizing in?



AVIAH:

The current political context is probably the most intense political context I’ve ever organized in. It's been a very intense year. And, yeah, there's, there's a sort of ongoing political crisis, particularly for the Metropolitan Police, that we, you know, at Sisters Uncut and also the Kill the Bill coalition and cop watch groups have been organizing to exploit. If that doesn't sound too Machiavellian, maybe I don't mind if it sounds too Machiavellian, I do want to destroy the cops, that's fine.



AVIAH:

But yeah, I guess that kind of that emerged out of,

Season 2 episode 14 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where... we wrap up for season 2!

Show notes, links

Sign up to our newsletter to hear about our future conflict courses!



And finally, some perennial resources:



* our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford).

* See our "What is facilitation?" podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources.



We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there's always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe!





Transcript

SAMI:

Ok so that’s it - we’re done with Season 2 of the podcast! Wooo.



SAMI:

That’s the end! We’re done with season 2 of the podcast! Woo



ALI:

Woop woop. Yep although we may have a cheeky bonus interview, we haven’t yet confirmed it, so watch this space just in case. Katherine?



KATHERINE:

I was wondering if we wanted to share some overall top takeaways from this season?



SAMI:

For me, in terms of top takeaways, I think probably a thing, maybe because it was the most recent thing we talked about in the toolbox, a thing that really stands out for me is that all the interventions that we suggest around responding to conflict happening in your group is a variant of: note that there is conflict happening, and try and create space to process and deal with it as a group. And everything else is just like detail, it’s format, it’s nuance. But the “note it and deal with it as a group” is the stand-out top takeaway for me.



KATHERINE:

I’ve loved speaking to all the groups, it’s been lovely to hear from so many people. And I think that I really found the toolbox to be incredible this year, for myself and for my own learning and to be able to have chats with both of you about what conflict is, and how we understand it or don’t understand it, and what to do about it. And just feeling really excited to learn more, and carry on from all of that work we’re going to be carrying on over the coming year. Spoilers!



ALI:

Yeah so, for me this has just been a really big project, we started talking about this in what June? July? And it’s now February, the end of February? That’s quite a long time to be working on something! So that’s been exciting. I agree with what you both said, and something new, for me I think it was really helpful to go into the frames of conflict. Specifically when Sami led that Toolbox about punitive, restorative and transformative justice – I found that really helpful. I really enjoyed those conversations right at the beginning. They feel like ages ago, so it’s good to reflect on those.



SAMI:

and it goes without saying - thanks to everybody that we interviewed, the groups and the people from those groups who gave up time to talk to us, we really appreciate it. They’ve been gems. And as always, thanks to Klaus and Kareem for your beautiful music



ALI:

to Rowan for the transcription this season - and a belated thank you to Katherine for last season, it’s quite a gruelling task, so thanks to both of you.



KATHERINE:

And we also want to say a massive thank you to Sami



ALI:

For getting all the podcast stuff ready and putting it on our website ready to go!



KATHERINE:

And this whole podcast wouldn’t be possible without you Ali doing all the editing work behind the scenes, so a huge thanks to you



ALI:

Season 2 episode 13 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we talk about a few tools to respond when conflict is happening in a meeting.

'The sad update that we have is, at least to our knowledge, there is no fancy Magic Bullet intervention.'

Show notes, links





An outline of the VERA model:







Validate

“I understand why it seems that way…”

“Yes, I can see why you think that…”

“Yeah, I’ve definitely heard that it’s a struggle to get council housing, given the long waiting lists…”





Explain

“I like to think of it more like…”

“If we look at [this fact], then…”

“…but I don’t think that’s because of ‘too many migrants’ taking houses – especially as so many migrants are barred from social housing lists…”





Reframe

“So if we look at it from that angle…”

“Which means I think…”

“…I think the the real problem is decades of underfunding of social housing, meaning that there aren’t enough houses for the people who need them, and the ones that are there are often shit quality…”





Ask

“What do you make of that?”

“…does that make sense?”







Some of the other tools we mentioned:



Name, frame, pause.



* Pro = don’t need a solution to respond with this, or even know what’s going on.

* Example phrase = “It feels like there’s some disagreement and heat here that’s not really being acknowledged. Is there something I’m missing here? Do you two maybe have different priorities when it comes to this topic?”



Request a group pause.



* Pro = can use the break to reduce the heat and switch tracks to approach the conflict from a different direction

* Example phrase =  “I think things are getting tense here, and I don’t think I can continue to focus, could we maybe take a few mins break and come back?”



Enhanced name, frame, pause — where you talk to someone else to explore a challenge and why your group isn't already dealing with the problem. Pro = dealing with thornier problems is easier with support.



Some resources:



* Seeds for Change's guides on giving and receiving feedback and active listening

* A handout from Boston University about using "I statements"



And finally, some perennial resources:



* our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford).

* See our "What is facilitation?" podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources.



We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there's always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe!





Transcript

ALI

This is Resist Renew,



KATHERINE

the UK based podcast about social movements,



SAMI

what we're fighting for, why and how it all happens.



ALI

The hosts of the show are



KATHERINE

Me, Kat.



SAMI

Me, Sami,



ALI

and me, Ali.



SAMI

I'm recording this now, baby!



ALI

Shit, it's a podcast!



ALI

Okay, welcome back to the toolbox.



In this episode, we are going to look at tools and tips for handling conflict...

Season 2 episode 12 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we talk about how to deal with conflict in the moment where it spikes up, using a frame called an "OODA loop".

'Conflict doesn't have to be fighting or loud. It can be a stickiness, or a tenseness that our body is picking up on.'

Show notes, links





Why this is a useful frame: intervening in conflict situations can feel difficult; it is easier when you do these steps first!.



In the "Observe" step, a few things to look for:



* volume changes

* an issue "cycling" back again and again

* issues being raised but not addressed

* participation changes (did some people leave the space and not come back)

* feeling tense in your body



In the "Orient" step, a few questions to reflect on:



Who is involved, and who isn't?

Who is visibly involved, who could be not visibly involved?

What roles are people taking (formal and informal)?

Why do you think it's happening now? (e.g. specific timings

What's your position in this?

How could this pan out? Do you think it will escalate, or fizzle out?



In the "Decide" step, a few areas to consider:



WHEN to intervene: never; later but not now; now; a mix

WHO should intervene: you? You + someone else? Other people, not you?

* WHAT you could do: have a side chat with people you think are "in conflict"; checking in on what a person who has been harmed wants; activating a pre-existing conflict process; name that conflict is happening, and explicitly park it til later; take a pause, to make a plan; name + ask people what's happening; find out what (some / all) people need; name and frame.



In the "Act" step... good luck! More on potential interventions next week...



Other resources on OODA loops as a model:



* A podcast that talks about OODA loops in more depth than we do...

* ...or a blog post breaking down the OODA loop steps, if you prefer written things.



And finally, some perennial resources:



* our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford).

* See our "What is facilitation?" podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources.



We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there's always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe!





Transcript

ALI

This is Resist Renew,



KATHERINE

the UK based podcast about social movements,



SAMI

what we're fighting for, why and how it all happens.



ALI

The hosts of the show are



KATHERINE

Me, Kat.



SAMI

Me, Sami,



ALI

and me, Ali.



SAMI

I'm recording this now, baby!



ALI

Shit, it's a podcast!



KATHERINE

Welcome to this episode of the toolbox. Today we're going to be exploring what to do in the moment when conflict sparks. And we're going to explore this using a thing called an OODA. Loop. And the OODA stands for Observe, Orient, Decide and Act. Over to you, Sami, to tell us what this is.



SAMI

Yes, I will try. [Luahgs] So: full disclosure, this is an idea that comes from like military with like a military...

Season 2 episode 11 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we talk about a model to understand some different positions that exist in conflicts.

'This tool forces you to think about what it would be like for you to be in any of these different roles: having caused harm, having been harmed and having witnessed harm. We often don't want to think about the possibility of ever causing harm.'

Show notes, links





Why this is a useful frame: these different positions have different needs; all of us could occupy any of these positions at any one time.



Some links to things mentioned in the episode:



* The Karpman drama triangle

* The first Exploring Collective Liberation course



And finally, some perennial resources:



* our sister facilitation collective Navigate have a conflict facilitation booklet (from back when they were called Seeds For Change Oxford).

* See our "What is facilitation?" podcast episode page for more general facilitation resources.



We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there's always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe!





Transcript

ALI

This is Resist + Renew,



KATHERINE

the UK based podcast about social movements,



SAMI

what we're fighting for, why and how it all happens.



ALI

The hosts of the show are



KATHERINE

Me, Kat.



SAMI

Me, Sami,



ALI

and me, Ali.



SAMI

I'm recording this now, baby!



ALI

Shit, it's a podcast!



SAMI

Okay, so welcome back everybody to the toolbox. So, in this episode, we are going to talk about the different roles that people can play in conflict situation in quite an idealised way. So a person who's harmed, a person who's done some harm, or then a person who's witnessed it.



And this is a way of like thinking about conflict in general, but also like a tool that you can use. So, like always, we're going to think about some pros and cons and like, do a little summary at the end. So, Katherine, what are we talking about?



KATHERINE

So thanks Sami. As you said, it's a sort of triangle of: a person who has done harm, a person who has been harmed, and a bystander. And this is both a frame, so like a way of thinking about conflict in terms of who's playing these different roles, and also a tool to reflect on conflict, either individually or in a group: about what might happen if you are in any of those roles.



So the purpose of the tool is to highlight that there are a range of needs, they're not all going to be the same whatever role you're in. So for example, if you are the person who has witnessed harm, you might need to have someone check in with you. Or you might need to have some time to process what you've seen, or you might need something else.



And then it also highlights the specific needs specific people might have in a group. So if conflict does emerge, you have a bit of a sense as a facilitator, what people in your group might need. Also just want to name that this idea of a triangle in conflict is often used in other scenarios. So the idea of a ‘Drama Triangle’ in maybe more specifically abusive settings, where you have the perpetrator, the rescuer, and the victim roles, is something that this this kind of model is drawing on. So I think, at this point,

Season 2 episode 10 of the Resist + Renew podcast, where we interview Elio. They organise with SWARM (a UK-based collective founded and led by sex workers who believe in self-determination, solidarity and co-operation) and are a branch organiser for United Voices of the World (UVW, a grassroots trade union of low paid, migrant & precarious workers and we fight the bosses for dignity and respect through direct action on the streets and through the courts!).

“Our focus is less on convincing the outside world that sex workers deserve dignity, and [more on] providing dignity to sex workers”

“Urgency will never end…but what might end is your capacity to be able to respond”

- Elio

Show notes, links

SWARM: community building, community resourcing





Everything You Ever Wanted To Know About The Swedish Model (aka The Nordic Model)

New Resource: 'How We Ran A Mutual Aid Fund'



UVW sex worker organising: helping to organise sex workers as workers



The United Sex Workers branch of UVW

Strippers union United Voices of the World (UVW) wins landmark legal victory proving strippers are ‘workers’, not independent contractors



Decriminalised Futures: popular education, arts



Their Lady of the Night School

The Decrim Futures archive includes both recording from their 2019 conference, and also videos from the "We can build a different world" event

The Decriminalised Futures exhibition at the ICA in London, running from 15 Feb to 22 May 2022



Some other projects:



* Decrim Now, a campaign group pushing for the full decriminalisation of sex work

* The Dialtone Project, giving old phones you don't need to the sex workers who do

* Volunteering with the English Collective of Prostitutes

* You can buy a copy of the acclaimed Revolting Prostitutes book

* And finally, the most succint "political outlooks on sex work" meme out there:







We now have a Patreon! Please help keep the podcast going, at patreon.com/resistrenew. If not, there's always the classic ways to support: like, share, and subscribe!





Transcript

ALI

This is Resist Renew,



KATHERINE

the UK based podcast about social movements,



SAMI

what we're fighting for, why and how it all happens.



ALI

The hosts of the show are



KATHERINE

Me, Kat.



SAMI

Me, Sami,



ALI

and me, Ali.



SAMI

I'm recording this now, baby!



ALI

Shit, it's a podcast!



SAMI

So, welcome everybody to the resist renew podcast, where we are joined here today by Elio. Do you want to say a little hello before I introduce you, Elio?



ELIO

a little Hello. Hello. Sorry, that was really… Hello! That's a big hello. Oh, it's multiple hellos of different sizes, shapes and sizes.