Sentientism Jamie Woodhouse

Melanie Joy, PhD, is a Harvard-educated psychologist specializing in relationships, communication, and social transformation. She is the award-winning author of six books, including the new How to End Injustice Everywhere and the bestselling Why We Love Dogs, Eat Pigs, and Wear Cows and Getting Relationships Right: How to Build Resilience and Thrive in Life, Love, and Work. Melanie is also an internationally recognized speaker and trainer who’s presented her work in fifty countries across six continents.

Melanie is best known for her groundbreaking theories on the psychology of violence and nonviolence and building healthy relationships. Her work has been featured by media outlets around the world, including the New York Times, BBC, NPR, and ABC Australia. She is the eighth recipient of the Ahimsa Award—previously given to the Dalai Lama and Nelson Mandela—for her work on global nonviolence; and she also received both the Peter Singer Prize and the Empty Cages Prize for her work developing strategies to reduce the suffering of non-human animals. Melanie is the founding president of the international organization, Beyond Carnism.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

00:00 Clips!

01:04 Welcome

02:51 Melanie's Intro

- The psychology of violence and #nonviolence , oppression and social transformation

- The psychology of eating animals and the work of  @BeyondCarnism 

04:05 What's Real?

- #catholic father, #protestant mother, neither particularly religious

- Attending #presbyterian #Christian church (occasionally) and nursery school

- Later, father re-discovered Catholic roots and became very religious. Jewish step-mother converted to Catholicism

- Mother joined #unitarianuniversalism church

- "I was never religious myself but I was very interested in religion... my first major was comparative religious ethics... fascinated by all things spiritual... the occult..."

- Very interested in #Judaism for a while

- "Always asking about meaning and what's true and what's real... sort of the way my brain was wired"

- Partially raised by #Quaker uncle and aunt "very progressive and socially engaged... very strong #socialjustice orientation" while father and step-mother were increasingly conservative

- "Everybody else in my family... is very progressive... my grandfather was even a #communist or at very least a #socialist "

- Quakerism and UU: "Integrating this sort of spiritual orientation which wasn't believing in a god, but believing in something more... that has to be very socially engaged... that was very attractive to me."

- "I'm not a Buddhist... but I have been guided by the principles of #buddhism "

- "My understanding of the world has been very much informed by witnessing and observing my family and the way they understood their own traditions and practices"

- "Liking to be in churches and liking to be in synagogues and wanting to be in temples... I felt very drawn"
26:43 What Matters?38:46 Who Matters?44:34 A Better World?55:45 Follow Melanie

- How to End Injustice Everywhere

- Beyond Carnism

- Infighting.org

- MelanieJoy.org

- @DrMelanieJoy

- Melanie on Insta

- Melanie on FaceBook

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Kendra is a professor at Huron University and a fellow of the OxfordCentre for Animal Ethics. She is a leading expert on animals and work, animal protection organizations and policy, and gender equity. Kendra has led multiple research projects enriching our understanding of human-animal work and animals’ own forms of labour in important new directions including through development of the concepts of humane jobs, interspecies solidarity, and ecosocial reproduction.

Kendra's latest book is Defending Animals: Finding Hope on the Front Lines of Animal Protection. She is the author of dozens of scholarly articles, book chapters, and public reports, as
well as the path-making Animals, Work, and the Promise of Interspecies Solidarity. She is the co-editor of Animal Labour: A New Frontier of Interspecies Justice? Kendra has also published more than sixty columns including for The Globe and Mail, Toronto Star, Salon, Ottawa Citizen, Winnipeg Free Press, Edmonton Journal, The Conversation, iPolitics, and National Observer. Her work has so far been translated into French, Swedish, Japanese, Korean, German, and Bahasa Indonesia.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Clips!

01:17 Welcome

- 3 previous guests did blurbs for Kendra's new book: Ziya Tong, Marc Bekoff, Jeff Sebo

 03:02 Kendra's Intro

- "I'm not related to Ann Coulter... we have slightly different worldviews" :)

- "The primary purpose of my life is to improve and save animals' lives"

- "Cultivating empathy and compassion"

- Discriminatory "isms" and proactive, agitational, generative "isms"

- "Foregrounding sentient beings is a very powerful mobilising way of thinking about the positives... trying to find unity and common cause"

- JW: "Just rejecting the negative isms isn't quite enough... we also some sort of positive stance about what we do care about... who should matter."

- "We need to critique the problems... we also simultaneously need to be developing and proposing alternatives and solutions"

05:55 What's Real?

- Riding horses before walking, "learning how to be kind to animals"

- Raised by left-wing atheists

- "To this day I maintain a very progressive worldview... however... I have become less ideological"

- "Crucial to have an ethical core... but that the process of inquiry... evidence gathering and analysis... is absolutely essential"

- Dialogue with groups who have different views "while recognising that certain worldviews are antithetical to justice and equity for humans and other beings"

- Field research "experiencing things with your body... being out engaging... not reclining into the ivory tower"

- Amplifying and communicating with broad audiences "Public intellectual is one of the best compliments you can give someone... your ideas matter... using ideas to inspire action"

- Open mindedness based on evidence and data "but never losing those core commitments... equity... solidarity... justice"

- Lisa Kemmerer episode

15:11 What Matters?

26:36 Who Matters?

49:10 A Better World?

01:02:04 Follow Kendra

- https://twitter.com/DrKendraCoulter

- https://huronatwestern.ca/profiles/faculty/kendra-coulter-phd/
- https://www.instagram.com/gifted.horse/

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

This episode is a bonus cross-post of my discussion with Jordi Casamitjana on his Vegan Reflections series for the VeganFTA YouTube channel. Make sure you go and subscribe if you haven't already. 

I hope you enjoy listening as much as I did talking to Jordi - feedback and suggestions are always welcome. As ever I'm only one Sentientist so others will disagree! If you want to hear me interview Jordi for Sentientism check out episode 104 on the Sentientism YouTube or podcast.

These are the two blogs we discussed:


The Meaning of “Animal” in Veganism. The zoologist Jordi Casamitjana explains the different meanings of the term “animal” in the context of veganism, and in all its dimensions.


Dr Sailesh Rao, The Vegan Engineer Healing the Breaking World. Jordi Casamitjana interviews Dr Sailesh Rao, a systems engineer trying to heal the planet and build the vegan world.

In ⁠⁠Sentientist Conversations⁠⁠ we talk about the three most important questions: “what’s real?”, “what (and who) matters?” and "how can we make a better future?"

The Sentientism worldview answers those questions with a commitment to "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings."

Find out more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠this simple form⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Everyone, Sentientist or not, is welcome in our groups. The biggest so far is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on FaceBook⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Come join us there!

Thanks to Tarabella and Denise for chipping in with our production costs via the secret(ish) ⁠Sentientism Patreon⁠.


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Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/sentientism/message

Arin Greenwood describes herself as an animal writer, novelist and lawyer. Her young adult book "Your Robot Dog Will Die" was published in 2018. Arin was animal welfare editor for The Huffington Post and now writes about dogs, cats, and other animals for The Today Show, The Dodo, The Washington Post, Slate, Creative Loafing, the American Bar Association Journal and many other publications.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Welcome

- Kyle Johannsen episode

02:01 Arin's Intro

- Dog lover, animal writer, former lawyer who has "written a couple of books"

- Writing about animal welfare then working with animal advocacy and sanctuary organisations

- Austin Pets Alive https://www.austinpetsalive.org/

03:57 What's Real?

- Growing up in a #Jewish family "And I'm still Jewish"

- Secular Judaism "We identify as Jewish, we have a Jewish community, I had a Bat Mitzvah... we celebrate a lot of the Jewish
holidays but it doesn't necessarily have a belief component to it"

- Parents "go in and out of how spiritual they feel at any given moment"

- "I don't feel like I know enough about the universe to say there's definitely no such thing as a higher power... I barely know
what's happening inside my own house most days"

- "My instinct is as a secular jew"

- "There are people who know more than I do... I
believe in expertise... I also believe in humility"

07:53 What Matters?

- Regardless of whether there is a universal being... we do
have knowable duties... to those who can feel happiness and those who can suffer"

- "The hard part is figuring out what those duties are and how they exist in a practical sense"

- "What difference does it make... if there's some sort of universal being... you should act in a good way regardless"

- The #torah  story of Abraham and Isaac "where god does tell Abraham to kill his son... that's not a story about 'you must be good' that's a story of 'you must follow my instructions'" #Divinecommandtheory

- JW: "We can have a hope that god might be benevolent... but if they're not we still have to do what we're told"

- Naturalistic #epistemology and/or #ontology

- "In Judaism we don't have hell... it's mostly 'you'll just really disappoint your mother'"

- Morality, amorality and immorality

- Moral foundations, #moralrealism or #antirealism

- #Psychopath and #Sociopathy JW: "even they can find an intellectual path to not harming others"

- JW: "Almost everybody has something you can start with... cares about their mother or their children or their friends... starting with the values they already hold... working with that... consistency"

21:20 Who Matters?

- "I've been #vegetarian since I was six years old... I
made the connection between the animals I enjoyed spending time with and what was on my plate... at that point it just became unthinkable to keep eating them."

- "My husband... who doesn't share that same moral
impulse... what do the normies think?"

- The animal welfare world: "Even in that world there's
a lot of inconsistency - animal shelter events will serve meat... director eats meat

01:15:20 Follow Arin

- aringreenwood.com

- @arin_twit

- Arin on FaceBook

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Molly is a writer, copywriter, editor, creative strategist and an animal rights activist. She is Founder and CEO of the non-existent farm, Elwoods Organic Dog Meat.

In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:
00:00 Clips
01:35 Welcome
03:20 Molly's Intro
- Writing, copywriting & animal rights activism
- 15 years in advertising
- Starting the #ElwoodsOrganicDogMeat web site: "a vegan journey... through their own cognitive dissonance... to the realisation that they love animals and they actually don't want to eat them."
- Going viral
- "I think everyone's #vegan already... I don't think they're given the space to act on that... not given the moment to give it the thought... this gives them the chance to make all the vegan arguments that are already in their heart"
05:39 What's Real?
- Not going to church growing up
- Occasional visits to Lutheran church "but I didn't know what was happening... thinking the pastor was Jesus because he had long hair."
- Dad: "There's just too much work to be done to waste a Sunday doing this"
- Hearing of child abuse by a pastor
- "It was never an #atheistic view... we never even talked about it... just 'this isn't our family - this isn't what we do'"
- Parents in military. Travelling a lot, long hours "just going through the day"
- At 12 yrs moving to a small, rural town "everybody was religious - I felt pretty left out"
- Attending church youth group in high school "it was the boys and singing I wanted to go for :) - I really wanted to fit in. I got a Bible and I read it."
- Asking youth group leaders questions: "If you can tell me what happened to the dinosaurs... why my parents are going to hell... why animals don't have souls... Once you've solved those for me... I'm ready to be baptised!"
- "Let's isolate her away from the children... she's asking too many questions."
- "It doesn't make any sense... Christianity had me in their palm and they rejected me"
- "Going through the motions" in church youth group
- At college youth group became a lot more religious "I realised this was not a group for me and I couldn't use this as my vehicle to belong."
- "#Spirituality and #religion was never... even today is not part of my life"
- Reading "The Buddha Got Stuck" then psychology
- "I find personal growth to be my kind of spirituality"
- A difficult time growing up "I was bullied... I was a bully... I have a lot of self-work I have to do"
- "As we explore ourselves and find more peace with ourselves then we can be more at peace in the world"
- "We all deal with so much suffering... if we
understand ourselves we can heal a lot more in the world than we ever do through spirituality"

- #trauma and "chips on our shoulders"

- "We can make the world a lot better through personal
growth than praying"

- JW "We can have the benefits of spirituality without
the spirit and without the supernatural"

- The harms of supernatural beliefs via established
religions, new age movements, wellness spaces, #conspiracy #conspirituality

01:16:02 Follow Molly
(buying Elwood’s merch, free activist downloads and ways to get involved)

- elwooddogmeat.com

- mollyelwood.com

- @ElwoodDogMeat

- mollyelwood

- instagram.com/molly.elwood

- linkedin.com/in/mollyelwood

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

Dr Iyan Offor is a Senior Lecturer in Law at Birmingham City University conducting interdisciplinary, theoretical research focusing on global animal law, environmental justice, intersectionality, posthumanism and law in the Anthropocene. Iyan is passionate about delivering legal education and research that will lead to the improvement of protections for animals and the environment in law. Iyan teaches international environmental law and human rights, legal theory, legal research, and constitutional law. He will also be creating a new course on animals in environmental law. His new book, "Global Animal Law From The Margins", is published by Routledge.


In Sentientist Conversations we talk about the two most important questions: “what’s real?” & “who matters?”

Sentientism is "evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings." The video of our conversation is ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here on YouTube⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

We discuss:

00:00 Clips

01:22 Welcome

- Josh Gellers (previous Sentientism guest)

03:00 Iyan's Intro

- Socio-legal scholar. Animals, nature and the law - and how those interact with society

- Improving educational options re: animal law: PhDs, masters projects, programmes, talks

- "...that appetite for learning about animals, the environment and the law that's already there - [but] in many places there's not space"

- Research: "How law can be used as a tool to try and improve animals lives... the core of what I'm trying to do"

- New book: "Global Animal Law From The Margins"

- Globallaw's multi-scale focus vs. #internationallaw (just the international level)

- Feminist, queer & postcolonial perspectives on the animal question

- "It ends up being a bit wacky... the international trading system... taking this forward-looking ethical approach... not the most natural bed-fellows but I think in the end it works"

 06:58 What's Real?

- An #atheist household in a very religious community (highlands of Scotland) and wider family

- #bornagain #christian grand-parents "a healthy dose of trying to convert us... my parents weren't to thrilled about that but we were well prepared."

- "I couldn't bring my #harrypotter books into the house because magic was seen as sinful and against god's will... it didn't make a lot of sense to me."

- Christian cartoons and religion at school "There was a feeling of it being forced on us"

- "I can see as quite problematic the ways in which children at school were expected to engage in Christian custom"

- Exchange year in Singapore, multiculturalism, secularism re: separation of state and religion

- Coming to understand grand-parents' turn to religion "they needed their faith"

- "I identify as part of the queer community... growing up in that very small, rural and christian environment... growing up closeted... has been interesting"

- Parents "gave us the information & gave us the freedom to make our own choice... that's an incredible privilege to have that freedom..."

- "I don't practice or follow a religion... it's never felt like a gap in my life"

34:18 What and Who Matters?

01:11:39 A Better World?

01:28:19 Follow Iyan

- https://twitter.com/IyanOffor

- https://www.linkedin.com/in/iyan-offor/

- https://www.bcu.ac.uk/law/about-us/meet-our-staff/iyan-offor

- Global Animal Law From The Margins “the e-book is reasonably priced”

...and much more. Full show notes at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

Sentientism is “Evidence, reason & compassion for all sentient beings.” More at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sentientism.info⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Join our ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠"I'm a Sentientist" wall⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ via ⁠⁠⁠