When Suzy Evans and her son Owen found themselves in the full glare of a worldwide media spotlight after three of their loved ones were killed in a terrorist attack in Tunisia, inevitably they were unprepared for such intense, agonising attention.
Six years on, they now say they've learned how the media can be a force for good.
That's because of their mission since - raising awareness of Smile For Joel, the charity they launched in memory of Joel, Patrick and Adrian to help other families torn apart by murder and violence.
Here Suzy talks about that steep and emotional learning curve - and how she wished she had handled some things differently.
To find out more about Smile For Joel visit https://smileforjoel.com/ or go to https://www.facebook.com/smileforjoel
To listen to more podcasts, go to nurturemedia.co.uk