The Resilient Recruiter Recruitment Coach Mark Whitby

This episode celebrates the 200th episode of the Resilient Recruits Podcast with special guest, founder of Recruitment Coach, Mark Whitby. 
 
Mark is the founder of Recruitment Coach and one of the world's leading coaches for the global recruitment industry. Since 2001, he has trained over 10,000 recruiters in 34 countries. He's helped countless recruiters double or triple their billings in just 6-12 months, and business owners grow their companies 10x.
 
Mark shares his journey into recruitment, starting with a failed business venture that led him to discover his passion for sales. He then talks about his first job in recruitment and the hunger and drive that propelled him to success. Mark also reflects on the past four years of the podcast and the valuable insights he has gained from interviewing over 100 successful recruitment professionals.
 
Having worked closely with hundreds of recruiting, staffing, and search firms, Mark has unique insight into how the top-producing recruiters and fastest-growing companies operate. 
 
Episode Outline and Highlights
 
[02:20] What led Mark to pursue a career in recruitment?
[06:20] How hiring a professional coach impacted Mark’s performance.
[14:01] The value of training when scaling your recruitment business - hear training solutions for growing teams.
[17:44] Mark transitioned from a recruiter to a recruitment coach.
[19:41] What has changed in the recruitment industry in the 22 years Mark has been coaching?
[25:24] Key challenges and lessons that Mark experienced over the years.
[38:17] Celebrating 200 episodes - What motivated Mark to start the Resilient Recruiter podcast?
[44:47] What is Mark most proud of in his entrepreneurial career?
 
Hiring a Professional Coach Became a Game Changer
 
Mark told the story of how he started his own business at the young age of 19. Without any prior experience, it ended up failing but it also led him to discover his love for sales which eventually directed him to become a recruiter. 
 
His experience in his first recruitment job made him realize a critical challenge in the recruitment industry at that time: “So the first company I joined there was no training. It was like, or very little. There was a little bit of shadowing of people and like, but pretty much you just like you're in the bullpen and you had to sink or swim and just figure it out by looking at what other people were doing and copying them. But unfortunately, a lot of the people around me weren't very good or didn't know what they were doing either.”
 
Mark was then headhunted to join a larger recruitment firm of around 200 recruiters. Even though Mark was meeting his target and was in the middle of the leaderboard, he felt that he could still do way more. Mark hired a brilliant coach and this was a game-changer for Mark. 
 
“He helped me double my billings in about 90 days and my manager was like what the heck is going on? So that was such a transformative experience that it kind of planted the seed later for me to decide to become a coach myself.”
 
Mark's dual role as a recruiter and coachee laid the groundwork for discovering the secret sauce for aiding recruiters and business owners. For those venturing into recruitment business ownership, Mark's narrative is valuable in recognizing the pivotal role of training and coaching in the growth and scaling of your business.
 
Reflections on the Evolving Landscape of the Recruitment Industry Across Mark’s 22-Year Coaching Tenure
 
Mark also shared how the landscape of recruitment has changed over the last couple of decades that he has been recruiting. He remembers the day their key focus was cold calling, networking, and getting referrals. He also recalled his learnings when he lost 80% of his revenue overnight during the 2008-09 recession. 
 
Mark emphasized how embracing digital marketing became a pivotal move, leading to increased success post-rec

In this episode, we delve into the intricacies of managing a remote team, a topic significantly relevant in today’s era where flexibility and adaptability are critical to success.
We are joined by Sam Brenner, owner of CRB Workforce, which is 100% remote. Sam and I discussed his strategies and actionable insights on how they build their high-performing culture in a remote setup. From leadership styles and collaborative check-ins to leveraging tech stack, you will hear Sam’s action points to thriving in the world of remote team management.
Guided by his motto, "The harder you work, the luckier you get," Sam is living proof of how determination and ambition lead to incredible outcomes. 
Sam launched his recruitment agency in 2018 from his apartment. Since then the business has grown rapidly to a team of 16 recruiting technology and marketing people across multiple sectors. 
Episode Outline and Highlights
[01:03] From Commercial Real Estate to Recruiting.
[07:49] Sam shares his fears and challenges of launching his recruitment firm in 2018.
[16:22] How to create strong relationships with long-term contractors and consultants.
[22:51] Staying resilient in dealing with multiple setbacks.
[27:13] Building a sustainable culture in a remote working environment.
[38:46] Investing in systems and processes to enhance collaboration in a remote setup.
[42:30] Sam reveals their daily practices and activities to keep everyone engaged remotely.
[51:25] Discussion on core values and how they translate to performance and culture.
[57:40] Navigating the 2023 recruitment market.
 
Building Team Culture Remotely Through Collaboration Systems and Practices 
 
A common ground between me and Sam is that our businesses are operating 100% remotely. Managing a remote team can be challenging for some recruitment business owners, especially on the collaboration part. So Sam and I discussed their best practices on how they keep their team together, the systems they use, and the practices they do, in order to work collaboratively in a 100% remote setup.
 
Leadership - Sam shared his leadership style that contributes to their culture and way of working. He emphasized the value of transparency - with him being an “open book.” He also elaborated on trust and the philosophy of “pushing your way in, don’t wait to be pulled in.”
 
Collaborative Check-ins - Sam discussed their concept of Zoom check-ins for collaborative tasks and highlighted the value of investing in systems that promote communication and collaboration. We also talked about the importance of having clear agendas and keeping virtual meetings focused. Sam also shared their “Wednesday Walk Day” which well resonated with our team.
 
Systems - Sam shared online platforms and applications that they use to collaborate such as Miro, Bullhorn, and Nectar.
 
Core Values That Translate to a Culture of Performance
Core values contribute to your recruitment firm's success as they cover your team’s culture and well-being, which translate to overall performance. With his team working 100% remotely, Sam believes that their core values play an important role in keeping their team together despite working in different time zones. He shared their organization’s core values:


The Power of Attitude - “You know, just be in control and set your attitude, because it's one of the only things you can control.”
 
Feedback - “Feedback is like a huge pillar for us, and so it's feedback, and it's giving effective feedback, taking feedback. So it's a two-way street, and that's one of the things that I lead with. I'm giving people feedback and I'm always asking for feedback, and so if someone sees something they don't like, they don't wallow in it.”
 
Pressure - “I want people to face the pressure. I want people to run towards their legacy, like, not away from it. “
 
As a recruitment business owner, ha

The past couple of years have shown an astonishing development in generative AI. Artificial Intelligence emerges as a transformative force, reshaping the landscape of recruiting by introducing unprecedented efficiencies, data-driven insights, and innovative solutions that promise to revolutionize the way organizations discover, engage, and hire top talent.
 
In this episode, we are in for a treat as one of the leading voices in AI and Data Science joins us to share unique perspectives and insights into the transformative effects of artificial intelligence on talent acquisition. Jon Krohn is a leading figure in the realm of artificial intelligence and machine learning. He’s the Co-Founder and Chief Data Scientist at Nebula.io, an intelligent Talent Acquisition platform.
 
He authored the book Deep Learning Illustrated, an instant #1 bestseller that was translated into seven languages. 
 
He is also the host of SuperDataScience, the data science industry’s most listened-to podcast. 
 
Jon is renowned for his compelling lectures, which he offers at leading universities and conferences, as well as via his award-winning YouTube channel. He holds a PhD from Oxford and has been publishing on machine learning in prominent academic journals since 2010.


Episode Outline and Highlights
 
[03:11] Jon’s fascinating career milestones - from high-frequency trading and yoga to data science.
[08:37] What led Jon into the world of talent acquisition?
[17:10] Effectively applying generative AI into talent acquisition.
[24:58] Generative AI’s other potential applications in automating the recruitment industry.
[35:04] How close are we to getting generative AI to do excellent writing?
[44:00] What makes Nebula’s methodology stand out from other AI platforms?
[52:16] What will the next 3 - 5 years look like in terms of Generative AI applications to recruitment?
[1:02:04] How AI platforms can elevate the human experience?
 
Artificial Intelligence in Talent Acquisition 
 
Jon shared his journey transitioning from high-frequency trader to yoga instructor to data scientist and co-founder of AI-driven talent acquisition platform Nebula.io.
 
He shared how this amazing platform leverages generative AI to help recruitment companies identify the best candidates in the least amount of time, which helps them to focus more on human connection in their workflow. This is how he explains it, “With nebula.io, you can type in ‘find me a data scientist in New York who specializes in machine learning,’ and we will take that small amount of natural language that you provided. We will apply the kinds of filters to the search automatically. So we'll apply a 50-mile radius around New York and we will generate some key information based on the small amount of information you provided.”
 
It doesn’t stop there because the results will be already curated based on each individual’s publicly available data to display ranking, potential compensation, and diversity. Their platform can also generate messages with information about the role, information about the candidate, and potentially information about the recruitment firm.
 
Jon explains that in the end, “You are making the final decision on whether a candidate is appropriate or not, but we're making the sourcing and messaging of candidates, the understanding of your searches and your candidates, as well as the engagement with your candidates, as simple and automated as possible so that you can focus, so the recruiters can focus on building relationships as opposed to just, you know, trying to find people and type out the messages.”
 
This is indeed phenomenal! Imagine what the future of recruitment will look like not only for recruiters but also for clients and candidates. In the long run, this can only enhance the end-to-end recruitment process experience across all stakeholders.
 
Artificial Intelligence in Recruitment Autom

Building a thriving recruitment business in the middle of a global pandemic may be unimaginable to most people, but not for Kyle Winterbottom.
 
Kyle’s strategy is clear and straightforward: give value, give value, give value! In this episode, Kyle uncovers the story of his journey into the recruitment industry and how the global crisis turned into a pathway of opportunity. 
 
Kyle is the Founder & CEO of Orbition Group, an award-winning talent solutions business. Based in Manchester, they focus exclusively on scaling Data, Analytics, and artificial intelligence teams across the UK, Europe, and the USA. 
 
Kyle is also the Founder/Host of the Driven by Data Community which is comprised of three components; The Roundtable, The Podcast, and The Mentorship. Kyle elaborated on his three proven long-term strategies for boosting engagement and building relationships
 
Episode Outline and Highlights
 
[02:02] Launching a recruitment business during the height of the pandemic.
[06:11] Community building and visibility to build brand awareness. 
[10:23] Giving value through podcasting - should you start your own podcast?
[17:02] Establishing commercial relationships.
[24:26] How hosting live events can scale your business by demand.
[34:43] Kyle talks about their Mentorship Programme and why it is the best long-term strategy.
[41:57] Growing by demand vs. growing by design.
[46:10] Revisiting business development strategies.
 
Give Value, Give Value, Give Value.
 
The pandemic can be perceived by many as not the best time to launch a business, but Kyle looked at it as the best time to kick off Orbition. His strategy is clear and straightforward: leverage content marketing and community building to build brand awareness. Give value first, and build relationships after.
 
“I guess that the whole premise was very simple. Just create a community of people who will ultimately be potential target customers and buying clients. Let's add a load of value to them and from there that'll create relationships. That then I guess the whole premise really is give value, give value, give value.”
 
Kyle elaborated on his strategies and you will find that there are three main takeaways:
 
Content marketing and adding value to your ecosystem can lead to a snowball effect, where people will want to participate in your engagement activities.
Prioritizing value adding to your market will generate not only visibility. It will position you as an expert and thought leader which gives you authority.
It builds the best type of relationship - as your audience appreciates your contributions, you build a relationship that goes beyond the customer-vendor type.
 
Kyle shared his practices on how they continuously add value: via podcasting, live events, and mentorship programs.
 
Podcasting and Hosting Events
 
I was astonished when Kyle shared with me that 100% of their clients are through inbound marketing. I really wanted to pick his brains on their roadmap and the strategies they use. 
 
He shared that podcasting has been a really effective tool in engaging with their target audience. One of the reasons that it is really successful is because it invited guests who they find credible, people of influence and seniority within the marketplace who have something to share. Kyle also reminded the listeners that it can take time to really get engagement and ROI - so it is really important to be patient and consistent.
 
After the pandemic, Kyle and his team started hosting free live events. These events started to garner more demand than they could facilitate, so they had to find the right balance of content and format in order to scale these events. They get very positive feedback from those who participate in these live events. Kyle and his team are able to bring together Chief Data Officers to share best practices while networking with one another. 
 
Aside from the above e

Ever find yourself hitting a brick wall when it comes to developing engaging content? Don't despair! 
 
Recently, I was invited as a guest speaker on the Retained Recruiter Show, which is a weekly LinkedIn live hosted by our good friends at i-Intro. The topic was How to Get More Clients with Content Marketing. i-Intro told me that this was one of the most popular live streams that they'd ever produced, and they've given me permission to share the recording with you on this podcast.
 
You will hear me discuss with James O’Brien and Jo Gregory strategies to effectively and consistently post original content and how it will attract your target audience. You will know how content marketing can position you as a trusted authority instead of being just a vendor.
 
Episode Outline and Highlights
 
[03:52] How content marketing transformed many recruitment businesses.
[06:05] Mark shares the easiest way to get started with content marketing.
[10:00] Authenticity is the key - leveraging AI platforms while keeping it original.
[15:11] How much time do you need to put aside for content marketing?
[18:30] How long would you give it to see engagement results?
[23:26] The powerful returns of consistently posting content and sharing to your community.
[30:27] How to measure and track your ROI from content marketing?
 
What is Content Marketing?
 
As a recruiter, content marketing is critical to continuously engage with your audience and remain relevant to clients and candidates. So what is content marketing? Content marketing is a marketing strategy that involves creating and distributing valuable, relevant content to your target audience on a consistent basis. It might be education-based marketing. In essence, you're providing market insight and thought leadership that will benefit your clients and your candidates. 
 
An example is the consistent posting of original content on LinkedIn. This is the easiest way for people to get started with content marketing. There are three reasons:
 
This is a tool available for everybody, whether you are a small boutique search firm or an individual recruiter. 
There is guaranteed measurable ROI.
It is fun! You get positive feedback and engagement from your network and can spark conversations with people you are already connected.
 
From personal experience, I can tell you that content marketing can transform your business. Aside from building you an audience, consistent content original, and authentic content can build trust for you as an expert in your niche and a credible advisor.
 
Time and Results in Content Marketing
 
How much time do you need to put aside for content marketing? It really depends on how frequently you are going to post. The important step you take is to commit to a schedule. It is important to be consistent, so consider a schedule that you can sustain. If for example, you will post 3x a week or 12x a month: spending 20 minutes per post will only require you an hour a week to write or create that content.
 
How long would you need to take to see engagement results? This can be a tricky question. Content marketing is like going to the gym. You may not see immediate results, but for sure, you will get results! The important thing is consistency. Just like how you would approach any business development and marketing activity - you may not get immediate results but you will definitely get results! But by showing up consistently, you are giving yourself the opportunity to be in that right place at the right time and, more importantly, you're creating what we call top-of-mind awareness or TOMA.
 
Methods for Content Creation and Engagement
 
What is the best content to create engagement? Should you use videos, images, audio, or just text-only posts? There are pros and cons to all those things, and ideally, you will want to do a variety of them all.  
 
You just have to go out there and do it. No need

What are the three success factors that would help a musician become a million-dollar biller recruitment business owner?
Our special guest, Alex Cooke, shares the journey of his recruitment career from a musician background. You'll get to hear the fascinating parallels he draws between music and recruitment, emphasizing the significance of three success factors:
 
How Human Connection Elevates You Above the Competition
How Your Ability to Write Changes Everything
How Your Market Insight Can Be Used to Build Trust
 
Alex is a former professional musician who entered the world of recruitment at age 29. 
 
After 18 months with an agency in the UK, he transitioned to NYC and started on a journey that in 3.5 years would see him become a million-dollar/year biller as a biotech recruitment specialist.
 
Alex is now the CEO of Phase 3 Search, a biotech search firm he founded in 2018. In the last 5 years, he’s retained 95% of his clients and generated $6.5m in sales.
 
Episode Outline and Highlights
 
01:14 How Alex got into recruiting from a musician background.
06:10 Alex’s intentional approach to building connections with people.
12:15 How Alex progressed into the Bio-Tech niche.
21:55 Discussion on the effective sales approach.
34:52 Getting an in-depth understanding of your market - discussion on best practices.
39:45 Why writing is important for recruitment business owners and how Alex enhanced his writing and storytelling.
50:44 Understanding your clients to build relationships.
55:30 Difference between the different levels of searches.
 
How Human Connection Elevates You Above the Competition
 
As a musician, Alex believes that creating music is about connecting with the listeners. He sees this as a parallel to recruitment, where human connection can elevate you above the competition.  We discussed the importance of networking with people in order to be successful in any career, and how to build connections with people intentionally. 
 
He started with the value of listening to someone’s story. Doing so not only helps you build a meaningful connection, but also puts you in a position where you can assess if they can be good candidates, clients, or business partners.  “I think the most interesting thing about anybody you meet is their story, right? So actually being fascinated by someone's journey. And if you take a step back and put your recruitment hats on,  what I spend much of my time doing is thinking about is this person a good leader. What characteristics do they bring to the table?”
 
Adaptability was also emphasized. He talked about how an introvert can connect with an extrovert and vice-versa. We also talked about the style of writing and communication, on how it should be adapted geographically. We also covered their candidate-centric and relationship-driven sales approach.
 
Minding these little things helps Alex and his team to intentionally create human connections and build relationships.
 
How Your Ability to Write Changes Everything
 
Writing skills can help recruiters in a lot of ways, some of which are engaging with candidates, making personalized outreaches, and getting better responses in email campaigns. Alex understands that improving his writing can be a game-changer. Alex was aware that writing was not one of his strengths, so he took proactive steps to level up his game. 
 
“Okay, so you know me and writing. I didn't think I could write even. Even through university. I really struggled to write essays. The whole thing was just a bit of a nightmare, to be honest with you, and there was this point in my career. I'm ultimately going into recruitment and realizing that the very first step of any recruitment process is typically a message sent out.”
 
The very first step he took was getting a really good book on grammar (reference link below). For Alex, this is critical because “there's nothing worse tha