TrustTalk - It's all about Trust Severin de Wit

Our guests today are Peter Wakkie and Tjeerd Wassenaar, talking about trust, crisis management, and corporate governance, leveraging their extensive experience in legal and corporate roles. They emphasize the critical importance of maintaining trust, highlighted through an example of an M&A transaction impacted by the COVID-19 pandemic, demonstrating how unexpected events can complicate negotiations and the importance of adaptability and integrity in such situations.


They show the importance of proactive risk management, advocating for a strategy that involves staying ahead of potential threats to protect the company's reputation and maintain trust. They discuss the necessity of a "trust but verify" approach and highlight the value of clear, enforceable rules over ambiguous principles to ensure consistent corporate behavior, reflecting on how these practices integrate into a company's DNA.


Peter shares his cautious stance on using communication experts during crises, stressing the conflict between the need for transparency and the potential legal repercussions, advocating for a balanced approach to crisis communication.


A significant focus is given to the practical application of the Three Lines of Defense model in risk management, emphasizing the need for active involvement and regular checks across company units to prevent crises effectively.


The podcast wraps up with reflections on the evolving business climate in the Netherlands, particularly discussing the challenges posed by the disconnect between business expectations and governmental actions. They explore how different corporate governance approaches, like the stakeholder model prevalent in Europe, impact business operations and decision-making, particularly in contrast to the shareholder-focused models in the UK and the US.

In this episode, we're joined by Carine de Meyere, the dynamic founder and president of Women of the World. Carine shares her vision behind her mission: to unite and empower one million women and girls by 2030. Set against the goals of the United Nations Sustainable Development, she details her path of ambition, recognition, and the pivotal role trust plays in building meaningful connections and collaborations. Carine takes an in-depth look at how women navigate and overcome obstacles in male-dominated fields, highlighting the crucial roles of mentorship, leadership, and trust, offering her insights on the need for women in leadership, the connection between trust and empowerment, and the effects of cultural differences on trust. We discuss topics such as the importance of women's leadership for global peace and decision-making, the pressing need for systemic change, and the empowerment of women in politics and other areas. The conversation with Carine de Meyere provides a motivational call to action to foster a more just, trusting, and equal world. Get ready to be inspired, challenged, and encouraged to join the movement towards achieving gender equality and strengthening sisterhood worldwide.

In this episode of TrustTalk, Professor Emerita at New York University, Marion Nestle, a prominent advocate in the field of food politics and public health, discusses her journey and insights into the food industry, trust in our food system, and the intersection of food, health, and sustainability. Growing up with a radical background, Marion was influenced by values of fairness and equity, which she carried into her career, initially trained as a scientist before shifting focus to nutrition and food systems. She critiques the food industry's prioritization of profit over public health and highlights the essential need for government intervention and public support to address the disparities in food access and the impact of food production on the environment.


Marion discusses the challenges of feeding a growing global population and the misalignment between food companies' profit motives and the need for sustainable, healthy food access for all. She advocates for a more diverse and regulated food industry to ensure environmental sustainability and public health. Addressing the controversy surrounding GMOs, she criticizes the food industry for eroding public trust through lack of transparency and misrepresentation of GMOs' role in feeding the world.


She underscores the importance of sustainability in the food system and the obstacles faced due to the industry's resistance to practices that may reduce profit margins. She encourages governmental pressure on the food industry to adopt better practices for the greater good. Discussing food choices, Nestle emphasizes the simplicity of maintaining a healthy diet through sensible eating habits and advocates for government and societal efforts to combat obesity by transforming the food environment.


Finally, Marion addresses the need for focused research on making healthy foods accessible and sustainable, highlighting the importance of addressing climate change through food production. Her ongoing commitment to writing and research reflects her dedication to improving food systems and public health. The interview illuminates the complexities of trust, food politics, and sustainability, emphasizing the need for informed action and advocacy to foster a healthier, more equitable food system.

Our guest today is Roger Mayer, Professor of Management, Innovation & Entrepreneurship at North Carolina State University. He discusses his foundational 1995 article on trust, emphasizing its role in risk-taking within professional settings and reflects on the evolution of his model, which defines trust as the willingness to make oneself vulnerable to another entity (be it a person, group, or technology) without having the ability to directly control or monitor their actions, distinguishing it from trustworthiness.


Roger Mayer responds to criticisms by underscoring the intentional simplicity and broad relevance of his trust model, which was designed with minimal variables for wide applicability, including unexpected fields like AI and robotics. He acknowledges the trade-offs of this approach but values the model's capacity to spark debate and advance scientific discourse


He also previews his upcoming book, "A Research Agenda for Trust: Interdisciplinary Perspectives," aiming to facilitate interdisciplinary research in trust. Additionally, he explores trust in autonomous technology, distinguishing between trust in the technology itself and its creators. He revisits his 1995 trust model in the context of government trust, introducing a new measure assessing vulnerability.


Mayer explores the often-overlooked dimension of police officers' trust in the public, underscoring the importance of bidirectional trust. He unveils that officers are inclined to engage more openly and take proactive measures when they sense a higher degree of trust from the public. This viewpoint pivots the conventional emphasis from how much the public trusts the police to a more reciprocal understanding of trust, where the perceptions of law enforcement about public trust play a crucial role.


He also addresses the challenges faced by university research, critiquing the excessive focus on production over impactful, meaningful research. He advocates for a balance between theoretical exploration and practical application, urging researchers to ensure their work contributes tangibly to society. This approach, he suggests, is essential for bridging the gap between academic research and real-world societal benefits, particularly in the field of trust.

Kees van den Bos, author of the book "The Fair Process Effect," explains his extensive research on societal conflicts and the pivotal role of trust. Through his book he underscores the critical importance of fair treatment by authorities in nurturing trust and cooperation within society. He introduces the "Perceived Procedural Justice Scale," designed to quantitatively assess fairness, highlighting how fairness is integral to fostering a sense of belonging and respectful treatment among community members.


Van den Bos's research goes further to explore the detrimental effects that perceived unfairness can have, such as fostering distrust and societal polarization. He provides a comprehensive perspective on these issues, emphasizing the need for early intervention in societal conflicts. By advising authorities and citizens to remain vigilant to societal dynamics, recognize and validate the concerns of various community members, and ensure these concerns are met with understanding and appreciation, he offers a pathway towards mitigating these negative impacts.


Moreover, Van den Bos stresses the importance of adopting normative standpoints that reinforce democratic values, including peaceful and respectful treatment of one another and the maintenance of the rule of law. He acknowledges the imperfections in societal institutions, such as the legal system, but advocates for continuous efforts to enhance their functioning. This balanced approach is crucial for maintaining the fabric of a democratic society, even if it means accepting some losses as the cost of upholding fundamental values. Through this lens, Van den Bos provides a logical and informative framework for addressing and preventing the issues of distrust, polarization, and conspiracy thinking that can arise from perceived unfairness.

In this episode, we explore the complex relationship between trust, control, and HR practices with our guest, Antoinette Weibel, Professor of Human Resources Management at the University of St. Gallen (Switzerland). She talks about how control mechanisms, from coordination to surveillance, impact trust in the workplace. The conversation highlights the difference between enabling and coercive controls, how bureaucracy can sometimes nurture trust, and the critical role of HR in nurturing trustful relationships. We also delve into the nuances between distrust and low trust, the ethical implications of technology use, and the importance of research and consultancy in building authentic trust.