29 episodes

A podcast about the automation of everything. Host Jennifer Strong and the team at MIT Technology Review look at what it means to entrust artificial intelligence with our most sensitive decisions.

In Machines We Trust MIT Technology Review

    • Technology

A podcast about the automation of everything. Host Jennifer Strong and the team at MIT Technology Review look at what it means to entrust artificial intelligence with our most sensitive decisions.

    Beating the AI hiring machines

    Beating the AI hiring machines

    When it comes to hiring, it’s increasingly becoming an AI’s world, we’re just working in it. In this, the final episode of Season 2, and the conclusion of our series on AI and hiring, we take a look at how AI-based systems are increasingly playing gatekeeper in the hiring process—screening out applicants by the millions, based on little more than what they see in your resume. But we aren’t powerless against the machines. In fact, an increasing number of people and services are designed to help you play by—and in some cases bend—their rules to give you an edge.

    We Meet: 

    Jamaal Eggleston, Work Readiness Instructor, The HOPE Program
    Ian Siegel, CEO, ZipRecruiter
    Sami Mäkeläinen, Head of Strategic Foresight, Telstra
    Salil Pande, CEO, VMock
    Gracy Sarkissian, Interim Executive Director, Wasserman Center for Career Development, New York University

    We Talked To: 
    Jamaal Eggleston, Work Readiness Instructor, The HOPE Program
    Students and Teachers from The HOPE Program in Brooklyn, NY
    Jonathan Kestenbaum, Co-founder & Managing Director of Talent Tech Labs
    Josh Bersin, Global Industry Analyst
    Brian Kropp, Vice President Research, Gartner
    Ian Siegel, CEO, ZipRecruiter
    Sami Mäkeläinen, Head of Strategic Foresight, Telstra
    Salil Pande, CEO, VMock
    Kiran Pande, Co-Founder, VMock

    Gracy Sarkissian, Interim Executive Director, Wasserman Center for Career Development, New York University

    Sounds From:

    Curious Thing AI (Sound from their AI tool)

    HireVue Video Interview: How To Beat The Algorithm and Get The Job: https://youtu.be/jn0dc1cOctA 

    HIREVUE Interview Questions, Tips and Answers! How to PASS a HireVue Interview!: https://youtu.be/ycG5_uccoNk 

    Video Interview Techniques - 3 Easy Hacks To Prepare for Hirevue / Spark Hire / VidCruiter: https://youtu.be/tp0jt4hoHsI 

    How to PASS Psychometric Tests | Tips & Tricks for Aptitude Tests, Numerical Reasoning, Game Based: https://youtu.be/u_nWOnJevaA 


    Credits
    VO: This miniseries on hiring was reported by Hilke Schellmann and produced by Jennifer Strong, Emma Cillekens, Anthony Green and Karen Hao. We’re edited by Michael Reilly.

    • 31 min
    Playing the job market

    Playing the job market

    Increasingly, job seekers need to pass a series of ‘tests’ in the form of artificial intelligence games—just to be seen by a hiring manager. In this third, of a four-part miniseries on AI and hiring, we speak to someone who helped create these tests, we ask who might get left behind in the process and why there isn’t more policy in place. We also try out some of these tools ourselves.

    We Meet:
    Matthew Neale, Vice President of Assessment Products, Criteria Corp. 
    Frida Polli, CEO, Pymetrics 
    Henry Claypool, Consultant and former Obama Administration Member, Commission on Long-Term Care
    Safe Hammad, CTO, Arctic Shores  
    Alexandra Reeve Givens, President and CEO, Center for Democracy and Technology
    Nathaniel Glasser, Employment Lawyer, Epstein Becker Green
    Keith Sonderling, Commissioner, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)

    We Talked To: 
    Aaron Rieke, Managing Director, Upturn
    Adam Forman, Employment Lawyer, Epstein Becker Green
    Brian Kropp, Vice President Research, Gartner
    Josh Bersin, Research Analyst
    Jonathan Kestenbaum, Co-Founder and Managing Director, Talent Tech Labs
    Frank Pasquale, Professor, Brooklyn Law School
    Patricia (Patti) Sanchez, Employment Manager, MacDonald Training Center 
    Matthew Neale, Vice President of Assessment Products, Criteria Corp. 
    Frida Polli, CEO, pymetrics 
    Henry Claypool, Consultant and former Obama Administration Member, Commission on Long-Term Care
    Safe Hammad, CTO, Arctic Shores  
    Alexandra Reeve Givens, President and CEO, Center for Democracy and Technology
    Nathaniel Glasser, Employment Lawyer, Epstein Becker Green
    Keith Sonderling, Commissioner, Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC)

    Sounds From:
    *Science 4-Hire, podcast
    *Matthew Kirkwold’s cover of XTC’s, Complicated Game, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tumM_6YYeXs

    Credits:
    This miniseries on hiring was reported by Hilke Schellmann and produced by Jennifer Strong, Emma Cillekens, Anthony Green and Karen Hao. We’re edited by Michael Reilly.

    • 37 min
    Want a job? The AI will see you now.

    Want a job? The AI will see you now.

    In the past, hiring decisions were made by people. Today, some key decisions that lead to whether someone gets a job or not are made by algorithms. The use of AI-based job interviews has increased since the pandemic. As demand increases, so too do questions about whether these algorithms make fair and unbiased hiring decisions, or find the most qualified applicant. In this second episode of a four-part series on AI in hiring, we meet some of the big players making this technology including the CEOs of HireVue and myInterview—and we test some of these tools ourselves.

    We Meet: 

    Kevin Parker, Chairman & CEO, HireVue

    Shelton Banks, CEO, re:work

    Mark Adams, Vice President of North America, Curious Thing AI

    Benjamin Gillman, Co-Founder and CEO, myInterview

    Fred Oswald, Psychology Professor, Rice University 

    Suresh Venkatasubramanian, Computer Science Professor, Brown University; Asst. Director, White House Office of Science and Technology Policy

    Clayton Donnelly, industrial-organizational psychologist, myInterview


    We Talked To: 

    Kevin Parker, Chairman & CEO, HireVue

    Lindsey Zuloaga, Chief Data Scientist, HireVue

    Nathan Mondragon, Chief IO Psychologist, HireVue

    Shelton Banks, CEO, re:work

    Lisa Feldman Barrett, Psychology Professor, Northeastern University

    Cathy O’Neil, CEO, O'Neil Risk Consulting & Algorithmic Auditing

    Mark Adams, Vice President of North America, Curious Thing AI

    Han Xu, Co-founder & CTO, Curious Thing AI

    Benjamin Gillman, Co-founder & CEO, myInterview 

    Fred Oswald, Psychology Professor, Rice University 

    Suresh Venkatasubramanian, Computer Science Professor, Brown University; Asst. Director, White House Office of Science and Technology Policy

    Clayton Donnelly, industrial-organizational psychologist, myInterview

    Mark Gray, Director of People, Proper

    Christoph Hohenberger, Co-founder and Managing Director, Retorio

    Derek Mracek, Lead Data Scientist, Yobs

    Raphael Danilo, Co-founder & CEO, Yobs

    Jonathan Kestenbaum, Co-founder & Managing Director of Talent Tech Labs

    Josh Bersin, Global Industry Analyst

    Students and Teachers from the Hope Program in Brooklyn, NY

    Henry Claypool, policy expert and former Director of the U.S. Health and Human Services Office on Disability


    Sounds From: 

    Curious Thing AI 

    myInterview 

    Dolly Parton - 9 To 5: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UbxUSsFXYo4


    Arirang News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30oCHwwLxy4


    CBS News: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbRBCU6SHHo 

    CBS Philly: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0wiPoCsZFFs 


    Credits:
    This miniseries on hiring was reported by Hilke Schellmann and produced by Jennifer Strong, Emma Cillekens, Karen Hao and Anthony Green with special thanks to James Wall. We’re edited by Michael Reilly. Art direction by Stephanie Arnett.

    • 30 min
    Hired by an algorithm

    Hired by an algorithm

    If you’ve applied for a job lately, it’s all but guaranteed that your application was reviewed by software—in most cases, before a human ever laid eyes on it. In this episode, the first in a four-part investigation into automated hiring practices, we speak with the CEOs of ZipRecruiter and Career Builder, and one of the architects of LinkedIn’s algorithmic job-matching system, to explore how AI is increasingly playing matchmaker between job searchers and employers. But while software helps speed up the process of sifting through the job market, algorithms have a history of biasing the opportunities they present to people by gender, race...and in at least one case, whether you played lacrosse in high school.

    We Meet: 

    Mark Girouard, Attorney, Nilan Johnson Lewis

    Ian Siegel, CEO, ZipRecruiter

    John Jersin, former Vice President of Product Management, LinkedIn

    Irina Novoselsky, CEO, CareerBuilder 


    We Talked To: 

    Mark Girouard, Attorney, Nilan Johnson Lewis

    Ian Siegel, CEO, ZipRecruiter

    John Jersin, former Vice President of Product Management, LinkedIn

    Irina Novoselsky, CEO, CareerBuilder 

    Derek Kan, Vice President of Product Management, Monster

    Aleksandra Korolova, Assistant Professor of Computer Science, University of Southern California 

    Brian Kropp, Vice President Research, Gartner

    Matthew Neale, Vice President of Assessment Products, Criteria Corp

    Josh Bersin, Research Analyst

    Jonathan Kestenbaum, Co-Founder and Managing Director, Talent Tech Labs

    Suresh Venkatasubramanian, Assistant Director, White House Office of Science and Technology Policy


    Sounds From: 

    How to Keep a Job, Coronet Instructional Films: https://archive.org/details/HowtoKee1949 

    Curious Thing AI (Sound from their AI tool)


    Credits:
    This episode was reported by Hilke Schellmann, and produced by Jennifer Strong, Emma Cillekens and Anthony Green with special thanks to Karen Hao. We’re edited by Michael Reilly.

    Additional reporting from us:
    https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/06/23/1026825/linkedin-ai-bias-ziprecruiter-monster-artificial-intelligence/
    https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/02/11/1017955/auditors-testing-ai-hiring-algorithms-bias-big-questions-remain/
    https://www.technologyreview.com/2021/04/09/1022217/facebook-ad-algorithm-sex-discrimination/
    https://www.technologyreview.com/2019/11/07/75194/hirevue-ai-automated-hiring-discrimination-ftc-epic-bias/
    https://www.technologyreview.com/2020/02/14/844765/ai-emotion-recognition-affective-computing-hirevue-regulation-ethics/

    • 33 min
    When AI becomes childsplay

    When AI becomes childsplay

    Despite their popularity with kids, tablets and other connected devices are built on top of systems that weren’t designed for them to easily understand or navigate. Adapting algorithms to interact with a child isn’t without its complications—as no one child is exactly like another. Most recognition algorithms look for patterns and consistency to successfully identify objects. but kids are notoriously inconsistent. In this episode, we examine the relationship AI has with kids. 

    We Meet:
    Judith Danovitch, associate professor of psychological and brain sciences at the University of Louisville 
    Lisa Anthony, associate professor of computer science at the University of Florida
    Tanya Basu, MIT Technology Review

    Credits: 
    This episode was reported and produced by Tanya Basu, Anthony Green, Jennifer Strong, and Emma Cillekens. We’re edited by Michael Reilly.

    • 21 min
    Encore: Land of a Billion Faces

    Encore: Land of a Billion Faces

    Clearview AI has built one of the most comprehensive databases of people’s faces in the world. Your picture is probably in there (our host Jennifer Strong’s was). In the second of a four-part series on facial recognition, we meet the CEO of the controversial company who tells us our future is filled with face recognition—regardless of whether it's regulated or not.

    We meet: 
    Hoan Ton-That, Clearview AI 
    Alexa Daniels-Shpall, Police Executive Research Forum 

    Credits: 
    This episode was reported and produced by Jennifer Strong, with Tate Ryan-Mosely and Emma Cillekens, with special thanks to Karen Hao and Benji Rosen. We’re edited by Michael Reilly and Gideon Lichfield. Our technical director is Jacob Gorski.

    • 20 min

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