Porn, Betrayal, Sex and the Experts — PBSE Steve Moore & Mark Kastleman

In Episode 227, Mark & Steve respond to an amazing submission from a PBSE listener who is facing an incredibly hard, overwhelming and toxic situation in her relationship with her sex/porn addict partner. One of the things that was so impressive about her submission is how balanced and reasonable she was in describing her partner and the situation. She did NOT "throw him under the bus," but simply stated what has been happening and the impact it has and is having on her. Because the submission was very detailed and lengthy, here is a summary of the situation she described—

-  12 years together
-  He has had multiple affairs & recurrent porn/masturbation addiction
-  Continuing "trickle truths" since "discovery day" (she has discovered everything through her own detective work)
-  He lied in the formal disclosure process with their CSAT therapist
-  He only passed a polygraph by confessing that he had lied in the disclosure itself
-  He continually plays ignorant about stuff he doesn’t want to come out
-  He resists exploring his past to create safety for her or be transparent
-  He violated boundaries by holding onto “souvenirs” from past affair partners
-  He consistently gives their therapist, family members and friends an inaccurate picture of her being aggressive and tyrannical
-  She is no longer opening up to family or friends due to the above

Here is how she concluded her submission to PBSE:

I have chosen not to continue letting my family or friends know what is happening because I could tell they were losing all hope in him when I had not. I still haven't (despite him being a jerk at times). I did/do not want to damage his ability to have a relationship with them, but it seems that he does not have the same consideration for me. There are moments when I want to defend myself, let them know about his addiction and the extent of his cheating and verbal/emotional abuse, but I have held my tongue. Can you speak to why he is going out of his way to misrepresent what is going on without consideration of the damage he is doing to my reputation or my ability to maintain these friendships? It feels like my whole life is being chipped away, one relationship at a time. Thanks guys. Sorry. I know this is very disjointed. Trauma brain, y'know?

In response to her very heart-felt questions, Mark & Steve address a host of important issues—

-  What are the various possible dynamics going on in this relationship?

-  What are the possible reasons behind this addict partner's behaviors and choices?

-  What can the betrayed partner AND addict partner DO going forward to pursue the most healing, connecting and recovery-based path possible? 

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 226, a PBSE listener asks a very common question about her interactions with her porn/sex addicted partner:
Hello, I just recently started listening to your podcast and I was wondering if you have, or if you could talk about, how to approach communicating our authentic feelings when our porn addict partner also struggles with depression … I'm always too scared to be fully transparent with him about what I'm feeling because I worry it will make him spiral to a very dark place … I know we won't be able to fully heal and mend our relationship until I'm able to be fully honest with him. For a little context: he is not currently in therapy; I've told him that therapy with a CSAT is one of the things I need him to do to help me feel safe and that I think it will help him in all areas of his life, not just in recovery.
Mark & Steve talk straight-forward and open about this kind of situation—for both the addict and the partner:

For Porn/Sex Addicts: 
What is the “reactive” mode all about for addicts???We learned early on that it was NOT safe to be transparent or authentic; to share needs or expect them to be met, etc. So, we learned to go into “I-have-to-defend-and-take-care-of myself” mode. In our relationships with others, IT HAS TO BE ALL ABOUT US!The Survival Brain does NOT want “its way” to be interrupted—”IT” is sure “IT” KNOWS WHAT WORKS!Because we’ve been so isolated, inauthentic and disconnected, we DON’T KNOW HOW TO CONNECT AND BE INTIMATE! So, we compensate with self-protection, deflection, resistance and manipulation strategies.And, because we are disconnected from “healthy  sources” of renewal and intimacy, we go-it-alone—which we can NEVER succeed at—it’s TOO MUCH for anyone! So, in comes shame, fear, depression, anxiety, anger, etc. AND WE TURN TO ADDICTION OUTLETS TO ONCE AGAIN—“COPE ALONE.” YOU must start advocating for YOU! You must start where you are and take the initial steps forward! If  you keep doing what you’ve been doing, you’ll keep getting what you’ve been getting! Are you ready to finally, genuinely admit—MY WAY DOESN’T WORK! We DO have really deep understanding and compassion for addicts (we are one), yet we know too well that “reasons” too easily become “excuses” and keep us stuck! For Partners in Healing:
We understand that it is stressful, scary and may even bring about unwanted consequences to share how you're truly feeling with your partner.You have to ask yourself: “what kind off marriage do I want?” Intimacy means sharing the good AND the bad. Choosing deep connection means letting go of the outcomes.Allowing the feelings of another individual to compromise your own authentic integrity is always an exchange of diminishing returns. Be loving, but direct:Be sure to authentically share the things that he is doing well, in addition to areas needing work.If there are things that you appreciate about him, express those and the why behind them.BUT, be very clear about the impact his actions/inactions are having on you, the relationship, etc.Share what consequences have come about as a result, and what yet may come if there isn’t change. Acknowledge your inability to “make” him feel any sort of way, and encourage him to access and/or find needed supports.
Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim C

Episode 225 comes from a heart-felt submission by the partner of a porn/sex addict. She reports that he is in solid, serious recovery, but he just can't find a way to become consistently honest! Here's part of what she submitted—
It's just a default position (lying) that he takes to everything, whether about his addiction history or about nothing at all. I understand that this is part of their recovery journey, but I can't take it anymore and I am thinking of divorce… if they are lying about nothing, then what else are they really lying about? I don't want to do it anymore. It's unbearable. He is devastated, and can't explain to me why he does it, but acknowledges that he does. Can a sex addict ever stop lying? And if so, how do they do it and how long does it take? Because in my mind, if he doesn't stop, he is merely a relapse waiting to happen… all evidence (EXCEPT for the lying about stupid things) points towards him being an absolute gold star recovery student. I keep holding on because he is so committed, but I can't waste any more time with a liar. We have four sons too who he is terrified of losing, and they are all really angry with him, but want us to work it out. They just also want him to stop lying.
Mark and Steve talk raw and real about their own struggles with getting solidly on the honesty path and the many addicts they have worked with over the years—


Why All the Lying?
Avoidance of consequencesExperience has taught us that “honesty is NOT the best policy”WE ARE PAIN AVOIDANT!Lack coping skills for accountabilityRiddled with shameWE ARE OBSESSED WITH APPEARANCESA glossy shell keeps the gooey center safeWE CANNOT COPE WITH REJECTION - IN ANY FORM!Part of us doesn't want to stopNot really ready to changeNot willing to get uncomfortableSadly, may have not had enough pain yetIt allows us to control PERCEPTIONS, PEOPLE and OUTCOMESTerritorially, we don’t want to cause our partners pain, either

Consequences
We don't matureWe stay in shameWe stay disconnectedThe relationship continues to languish.Our spouses stay in Hell—high anxiety, reactive, guessing, hyper-vigilanceThe relationship WILL NOT GROW. EVER. (best Case)The relationship WILL DIE. (worst Case)The liar never realizes his true potential and authentic self

Where to begin being Honest
Acceptance on the part of the addictImpact, significance, scope, etcDetermine their willingness to give up “control”START PRACTICINGHonestyAccountabilityConfrontingBeing confrontedMaking amendsOwning your pastProcessing your shame
Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In Episode 224, Mark & Steve discuss a topic that many couples face—the addict in recovery is trying to stay sober from his use of porn and other sex addiction outlets. At the same time, his partner is seeking her own path of betrayal trauma healing. in the midst of their individual efforts is the issue of their "sexual relationship." How can a couple balance his recovery/sobriety and her healing, while also navigating the role that sexual intimacy has and will have in their relationship? How do they start talking about this in a healthy, open, vulnerable and authentic way? How does he do so without coming across as pushy or pressuring? Here are some key points that Mark & Steve address:
-  Let’s get REAL—unless we’ve really done some deep work and practice, we ALL have dysfunctions in the way we don’t talk, or even do talk, about “sex” with our partners! 


-  WHY is that? Where does it come from? And what are the consequences?


-  What happens when we take what is often ALREADY not a healthy, open, holistic physical intimacy in our relationship and THEN add sexual betrayal and infidelity???


-  What are the complexities and the “balancing act” of a porn/sex addict getting and staying sober while ALSO leaning in and leading out in helping the betrayed partner to heal AND  navigating healthy sexuality in the relationship?


-  Is sex a “need," or a "want," particularly in the long-term? What is authentic for you (individually and as a couple)? 


-  What are the initial steps in seeking to create truly healthy sexual intimacy in a relationship?


-  You MUST decide whether or not you are both willing to get “emotionally naked” and begin to actually dare to be vulnerable, authentic  and real about this part of your relationship—YOU MUST OPEN UP A REGULAR DIALOGUE! This can be awkward, triggering and clumsy. What are a few basic beginning steps?


-  What “role” has sex played for each of you and your relationship in the past? What have you been “asking of sex”? How has this been healthy and unhealthy? What needs to change?


-  Can you become healthy by continuing on the current sexual track, or do you need to take a break; engage in a reset or a “sexual fast”? If so, what are the basic steps for this to NOT be a “disconnection disaster"?


-  True healthy, connecting, ascending sexual intimacy is ALL about the consistent dialogue, sharing, and intimate connections OUTSIDE the bedroom! 
 

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services

In episode 223, Mark & Steve address a submission by a PBSE listener who is in long-term recovery from his porn and sex addiction. At the same time, after many years of gaslighting, lying and multiple layers of betrayal, his spouse is understandably and significantly struggling in the relationship. Here's how he describes the situation—

Hey guys! Recovering addict here, coming up on a year of sobriety. First off, I just want to say I take full responsibility for the complete destruction I've caused in my marriage through my gaslighting and lying about my porn and sex addiction. My wife did not sign up for this when we married and was 100% in on the relationship when I was not. Now that I'm in recovery and have disclosed to her the extent of my acting out, a deep seated hatred has set into her heart. I'm often the target of verbal abuse that she uses to hurt me as deeply as she feels hurt. Threats are another common form it takes, threats of cheating on me, getting revenge, or telling me I'm ugly or worthless. There are times that this escalates to physical abuse such as throwing things at me, spitting on me, or hitting me. She is seeking help for her betrayal trauma through a CSAT and I feel slowly her healing is beginning, but these episodes of extreme rage are difficult to navigate. Can you offer any advice? We have young children which can make it difficult to draw boundaries around stepping out of the situation when they need caring for also Thanks!

What is the Addict's Daily Part in all of this (His recovery and Her healing)?

-  What does leaning in; sitting in her pain; leading out and “loving out” look like?

-  1 year sober vs. at least a decade or more of betrayal—how does this impact the levels of patience and “grace” he should be willing to offer her?

-  How can he practice progressive skills of self-regulation; stepping back; asking, “What is under this;” LEARNING TRUE EMPATHY?

-  How can he become skilled at navigating the line between "leaning in" and "taking a break"?

-  How does he NOT go back to an old shame mindset, co-dependency and/or become a “doormat"? How can he learn to set and LOVINGLY hold "healthy" boundaries? Does he even have the right to do so?

What does a "Healthy" Approach to all of this look like for the Betrayed Partner?

-  First of all, an extra measure of self-compassion and self-patience for herself is critical. In many ways this is all new territory for her—emotionally, mentally, physically and spiritually.

-  Betrayal trauma is "in the eye of the beholder"—the thoughts, feelings, symptoms and timing are unique to each betrayed partner.

-  Seeking help that is outside of her addict partner is CRITICAL!

-  The discovery of his years of betrayal will understandably and legitimately trigger deep pain, heartbreak, anger, confusion and many other emotions. These emotions are NOT bad; nor should they be "shut down" or ignored. They should be given a voice. However, there are both healthy, toxic and at times, even abusive ways for this to happen—for her; for the relationship; and for their children. 

What is the Goal/Vision as a Couple? 

-  Start where they are, with ongoing raw, honest, transparent dialogue and sharing—but in a progressively "healthy" way.

-  Each partner must do his or her own independent recovery/healing work so that they can then come together to be "inter-dependent" and COLLABORATIVE. 

-  Remember, that is some ways, you are starting a whole new relationship; you are coming to see and know each other for the first time. You are seeking to place yourselves in the position to "choose each other and the relationship" or not. 

In episode 222 of the PBSE podcast, hosts Mark and Steve delve into a deeply personal and challenging topic after receiving a unique submission from a listener. The episode focuses on a couple where both partners have a history of porn  and sex addiction, but only one is actively pursuing recovery. The submission details the struggles of trying to support a partner who is resistant to seeking professional help due to past traumas and fears of exposing their addiction.

02:09 - 04:18: Unveiling the Listener's Challenge—Revealing the listener's submission about dealing with porn addiction in her relationship, highlighting the dynamics of both partners struggling with addiction but only one seeking recovery.

04:18 - 06:27: Recovery & Resistance—The listener's journey of recovery and her partner's resistance to seeking professional help.

06:27 - 08:36: Addiction & Hypocrisy—Mark & Steve share personal reflections on their own experiences with addiction, including the struggles with hypocrisy and denial in the face of needing help.

08:36 - 10:45: The Stigma and Fear of Exposure—Exploration of the stigma surrounding addiction and the overwhelming fear of exposure that prevents many individuals from seeking help.

10:45 - 12:54: Barriers to Recovery & the Power of Connection—The various barriers to recovery, including shame and fear of rejection, and the crucial role of connection and vulnerability in overcoming addiction.

12:54 - 15:03: Empathy, Support, & Relationship Dynamics—The importance of empathy and support in a relationship affected by addiction, and how the dynamics between the partners play a critical role in recovery efforts.

15:03 - 17:12: The Importance of Professional Help & Boundaries—The necessity of professional help in recovery and the establishment of healthy boundaries within the relationship for both partners.

17:12 - 19:21: The Potential for Recovery & Healthy Relationships— The potential for individuals and relationships to recover from addiction through committed work and mutual support.

19:21 - 21:30: The Role of Individual Recovery in Relationship Health—Highlighting how individual recovery efforts are essential for the health and sustainability of the relationship, and the dangers of co-dependency.

21:30 - 23:39: Love, Boundaries & Relationship Sustainability—Discussion on the balance between love and boundaries, and how unboundaried love can affect the sustainability of a relationship.

23:39 - 25:48: Facing Hard Truths & Making Difficult Decisions—The importance of facing hard truths within oneself and the relationship, and how difficult decisions may be necessary for long-term health and happiness.

25:48 - 27:57: Cultural & Social Perspectives on Addiction & Recovery—Reflecting on how cultural and social perceptions of addiction and recovery can impact individuals and their willingness to seek help.

27:57 - 30:06: D2C Program & the Importance of Community—Introduction to the Dare to Connect program, designed to provide a unique recovery experience through vulnerability, connection, and community support.

30:06 - 32:17: Conclusion & Encouragement for Listeners—Concluding remarks encouraging listeners to seek support, embrace vulnerability, and pursue recovery.

Learn more about Mark and Steve's revolutionary online porn/sexual addiction recovery and betrayal trauma healing program at—daretoconnectnow.com

Find out more about Steve Moore at:  Ascension Counseling

Learn more about Mark Kastleman at:  Reclaim Counseling Services