It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine iHeartPodcasts

Can grief be an opportunity for growth and self-understanding? The answer, of course, is yes: but it’s a bit more complex than that. This week, author, philanthropist, activist Rachel Cargle on survival optimism, the resilience narrative, and why questioning the stories you tell yourself - with curiosity and kindness - is a powerful path of healing. 

 

In this episode we cover: 

 


How was grief modeled for you growing up, and how does that affect later grief?
Can your memory of childhood grief be… entirely wrong? (or at least, inaccurate)
Can you do grief wrong?
The difference between curiosity and judgment
Is it ok to feel relieved when a sick person dies? 
Rachel’s new book, A Renaissance of Our Own

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.



Related episodes:

Gabor Mate on why we celebrate trauma, aka: resilience 

Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch on the power of storytelling as an act of healing



About our guest:

Rachel Cargle is a writer, entrepreneur and philanthropic innovator. Her new memoir, A Renaissance of Our Own, centers the reimagining of womanhood, solidarity and self. In 2018 she founded The Loveland Foundation, Inc., a non-profit offering free therapy to Black women and girls. 

 

She’s also the founder of Elizabeth’s Bookshop & Writing Centre, a literacy space designed to amplify, celebrate and honor the work of writers who are often excluded from traditional cultural, social and academic canons. For more on her many endeavors, visit rachelcargle.com.

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional Resources:

Read Rachel’s new book - A Renaissance of Our Own

 

The Great Unlearn – a self-paced, donation-based learning community

 

The Great Unlearn for Young Learners – an online learning space for young folks launching in 2022

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What would a meaningful life look like for you? According to Death Doula Alua Arthur, conversations about death can be the most enriching conversations we have. 

 

It’s not about accepting death, or avoiding grief - it’s about building a relationship with yourself and others that doesn’t hold anything back. Why should you listen? Yeah, because you’re mortal and one day you'll die, but more importantly: because one day, hopefully in the far off future, you’ll look back at this life you’ve lived. Conversations about death can make that life so much better. 

 

Alua’s new book is Briefly Perfectly Human: Making an Authentic Life by Getting Real about the End. For more info visit aluaarthur.com

 

In this episode we cover: 

 


What’s a Death Doula? 
Does being honest about death give you access to joy?
Should you tell someone that they’re dying, or does that remove hope? 
Why living each day like it’s your last is unrealistic (and what to do instead) 
The linking of death and grief: Death and grief are married, but grief definitely dates around. 

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.



Related episodes:

Trauma Surgeon Dr. Red Hoffman on the surprisingly broad umbrella of palliative care

 

The co-founders of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care on supporting burnout & stress among healthcare professionals & caregivers



About our guest:

Alua Arthur is a Death Doula, recovering attorney, and the founder of Going with Grace, a Death Doula training and end-of-life planning organization that exists to support people as they answer the question, “What must I do to be at peace with myself so that I may live presently and die gracefully?” She’s been featured in the LA Times, Vogue, Refinery29, The Doctors, and alongside Chris Hemsworth on the docuseries, Limitless. Find her at aluaarthur.com and on Instagram at @going_with_grace 

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional Resources:

Read Alua’s new book - Briefly Perfectly Human

 

Going with Grace

 

Megan mentions this book -  Pronoia Is the Antidote for Paranoia

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry? 

 

In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly. 

 

In this two-part episode we cover: 

 


What is the right amount of anger?
Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful 
What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??) 
Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief”
How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want
Finding your best community by embracing your anger

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

About our guest:

Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in TIME, The Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional Resources:

We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com

 

To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK.

 

If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed. 

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry? 

 

In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly. 

 

In this two-part episode we cover: 

 


What is the right amount of anger?
Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful 
What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??) 
Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief”
How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want
Finding your best community by embracing your anger

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

About our guest:

Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in TIME, The Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional Resources:

We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com

 

To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK.

 

If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed. 

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What should you do if someone wants to be friends, but you’re not into it? Boundaries are part of all human relationships, but they are TRICKY. 

 

Welcome to part two of our show about boundaries - how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes, how to breach them - with special guest Dr. Alexandra Solomon, host of Reimagining Love.

In this episode we cover:

 


Starting over in a new place with new friends 
Why we so often confuse boundaries with being mean or rude
The power of social observation to gather data (Megan’s go-to move!) 
Scripts for saying “no thank you” to a potential friendship when that feels both mean and necessary

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

About our guest:

Dr Alexandra Solomon is one of the most trusted voices in the world of relationships. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University  and the author of two bestselling books: Loving Bravely and Taking Sexy Back. 

 

You might know her from her popular instagram channel @dr.alexandra.solomon, or from her podcast, Reimagining Love. Find her at dralexandrasolomon.com 

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional Resources:

Want to train with Dr. Solomon? Check out her current training courses at dralexandrasolomon.com

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

 

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do you do when someone cuts you out of their life? How do you back away slowly from someone you really don’t want to be around? Boundaries are part of all human relationships, but they are TRICKY. 

 

This week on It’s OK, part one of our show about boundaries - how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes, how to breach them - with special guest Dr. Alexandra Solomon, host of Reimagining Love.

In this episode we cover:

 


Why relational self-awareness is the key to all good relationships
Can step-parents and adult step-kids get along after a loss in the family? 
How to negotiate the relationship you want when the other people maybe don’t want you around
The difference between “letting go of outcome” and setting yourself up for success

 

We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.

 

Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.

 

About our guest:

Dr Alexandra Solomon is one of the most trusted voices in the world of relationships. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University  and the author of two bestselling books: Loving Bravely and Taking Sexy Back. 

 

You might know her from her popular instagram channel @dr.alexandra.solomon, or from her podcast, Reimagining Love. Find her at dralexandrasolomon.com

 

About Megan: 

Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief

 

Additional Resources:

Want to train with Dr. Solomon? Check out her current training courses at dralexandrasolomon.com

 

Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here. 

 

Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed

Books and resources may contain affiliate links.

 

Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok.

For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.