Ordinary Radicals Jonathan Hayashi and Brandon Boatner

In this episode of the Ordinary Radicals podcast, Jonathan Hayashi, and Brandon Boatner about what it means to be basically human as minister and pastors of the gospel.
Here’s a discussion on from two pastors on the topic of “Pastoral Proverb”
 
Some highlights from today’s episode.

Be willing to look stupid, but don’t be stupid.
I am only human.I’m just flesh and blood (even though I got a Spirit), I can only do so much.
We are not God, but sometimes pastor try to be omnipresent, omniscient, or omnipotent.

People are not human doing, but people are human being.

I am reminded once again, that I am first and far most not a “pastor” but a “child of God”
My wife only gets one husband. My children only get one dad.
The church will always be there, and it can wait.

It’s ok not to be ok.

In churches, we people more like acquaintance rather than friends. With friend you can cry.
Speak the unspoken.
We don’t express in unhealthy ways, or even suppress it or repress it but confess by lamenting.
The unspoken rule is that leaders cannot make any mistakes.
As long as God gives you airs in your lungs, don’t give up.

Be humble and yet you can be confident.


 
Here’s the breakdown outline from today’s conversation.
1. Life Lessons in Pastoral Ministry
– Be willing to make mistakes but learn more those mistakes.
– Because you are human, it’s ok to make mistake. Don’t be afraid. Fall forward.
– Be willing to step out and don’t reinvent the wheel all over.
– We are not action-based church be a being church.
– More coffee is not always the answer!
 
2. People are Not God
– Sometimes, we don’t try to be someone that we are not.
– Being available to everyone and anyone is contradictory to being human.
– We are better together. Our churches are better link to reach the community for Christ.
– How do we often introduce ourselves? By our occupation and what we do.
–  I had to learn these lessons the hard way, I wish I learned it quicker through a book.
 
3. Proper Boundaries in Humanity
– Take a Sabbath! Take a day off from work.
– It’s ok not to be ok.
– “How are you?” it is a custom here in the States it’s an introduction.
– In counseling, I identify their pain, give it a name, and gently touch it.
– How many do you have friend you can cry together at 2:00 am? That’s a real friend.
– Ministry is a performance driven atmosphere.
– Art of lamenting which has been lost within the churches.
– Feed the elephant that is in the room.
 
4. I Will Make Mistakes, Even Big Mistakes.
– We are not perfect, though sometimes we act like we are perfect.
– The truth is this, there is no rules in the rules of ministry.
– The best structure, system or strategy doesn’t really matter because there are no rules.
– Be ok with the element surprise even though we don’t see the future.
– “A righteous man falls seven times but rises again” (Prov 24:16).
– Make mistakes and learn from your mistakes.
– As longs as God give you a pulse, he has a purpose for you today.
 
5. God Gives me Grace
– John speaks of God giving us grace upon grace.
– “There’s nothing like the school of suffering” – Charles Spurgeon
– A new day will come (this is the truth). Until Jesus returns, the sun still rises.
– Jesus meets us where we at. He invites us to his table.
– “It is doubtful God can bless a man richly until He has hurt him deeply” – J.I. Packer
– Where sin abounds, grace abounds even more! Though sin is many, His mercy is more.
 
Resources mentioned in today’s podcast

The Majesty’s Men

 

Feedback
If you have a question, you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at jonathanhayashi.com.
Thanks for listening! If you have found this podcast helpful, go to iTunes and leave a rating & review! That is one simple way you c

In this episode of the Ordinary Radicals podcast, Jonathan Hayashi, and Brandon Boatner about pride and humility in leadership.
What do you do when you find “pride” in your pastor? How would you feel when you find out your “lead pastor” is maybe a control freak?
 
Some highlights from today’s episode.

Deep down in the heart issue, the problem is between “pride” and “humility” in leadership.
Some people just feel uncomfortable to give “control” to others. They rather do it all themselves. Guess what? You will kill yourself in ministry.
There must be a balance in communication and level of delegation in leadership structure.

The experience of “hurt” at times morphs into making them rely more on “self”

A prideful leader has a sense of “elevation of self” with “my way or the highway”
Arrogant people use it in “manipulation” to get what-they-want.
When we think ministry only happens only between the “four walls”, we’re in huge problem.
Arrogant pastors will hurt people eventually.
Prideful leaders, if you would like Satan, have become puffed up with pride. They are satanic.

Arrogant leaders; (1) hide sin, (2) minimize sin, (3) justify sin, (4) rationalize sin.

Repeated apology is not “repentance”
Everyday with Jesus is better than the day before.
Accountability and authenticity are important for gospel conversation for lost and Christians.
Arrogance can ruin a ministry and it is important to speak into those situations.

Don’t do it by being the master manipulator just like the arrogant leader from a hurtful heart.

The past can make you either bitter or the past can make you better.
Be careful who you let on the ship, cause sometimes if they can’t be the captain, they are willing to sink the whole ship down.
Don’t lose hope, God can work in anyone’s heart. Keep praying for your leaders.

Don’t get caught up in your self-pity soaking mode. That will make you more depressed.
 

Here’s the breakdown outline from today’s conversation.
1. Why Are Certain People are “Control Freaks”?
– Not all these cases we are able to say “black-and-white” distinction issues. It’s gray.
– Marriage counseling with “Abuse” finds similar characteristics.
– Authoritarian Leader who are “King of the hill” or the “CEO of the home”
– The heart of the problem is always the problem of the heart.
– Pride is huge in ministry, where people are that way out of “hurt”
– Arrogance just simply likes to rely more on “self” because they know better than other.
 
2. Characteristic of Arrogance and Pride?
– Secular definition, “narcissistic personality disorder”
– Biblical definition, “Scoffer” is the name of the arrogant, haughty man who acts with arrogant pride. (Prov 21:24).
– Prideful leaders are good at justifying what they want and desires.
– “Pride goes before destruction, and a haughty spirit before a fall.” (Prov 16:18).
– “God opposes the proud but gives grace to the humble.” (Jam 4:6).
– “For from his fullness we have all received, grace upon grace. For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.” (John 1:16-17).
– In marriage cases, prideful leaders will “gaslight” the conversation and exaggerate issues.
– Pharisees cared so much about their own thoughts, good at pointing fingers at others.
 
3. Humility and Humble Heart of Leader
– There needs to be a certain amount of discernment when we deal with the heart of a leader.
– Humility comes along with other characteristics of a leader (Gal 5:22).
 
4. How to Deal with Prideful Leaders (Pastors)?
– The cure to “pride” is repentance, which is byproduct of the gospel.
– Progressive sanctification, sometimes if repentance is not there, the leader may not be “saved”
– Begin with the gospel
– Repentance is not just words. It is not just head, but the heart is truly broken before the Lord.
– The standard of

In this episode of the Ordinary Radicals podcast, Jonathan Hayashi, and Brandon Boatner talk about winning over wayward Christians.  
What do you do when the one you love is wayward? How do you go about having gospel conversation with family members? 
 
Some highlights from today’s episode.
• We sadly see this scenario quite common. 
• It is IMPOSSIBLE for us to restore someone to faith. Only God can. 
• The modern church movement with A.B.C. of salvation. They have water down the gospel. 
• If they truly believe, they will never walk away from the faith. 
• Denying the holiness of God in the heart? Takes a constant struggle there with the action. 
• People can say, “I do not like you” that can quickly turn to, “I don’t believe in you” 
• What is going on? As men, we are taught to absorb our own emotions. That’s a problem. 
• Not only men cry, but God cries. So, we should experience those emotions. 
• Life is not just a bunch of snap shots of pictures. It is more like a movie clip that moves forward. 
• False thinking process, “God allows that to happen, therefore, God doesn’t care for me” 
• A person may have genuinely not been born again, or they could have hardened their hearts in sin. 
• Dialogue, “Oh yeah, Jesus doesn’t understand pain, betrayal, or hurt cause he hasn’t felt it”  
 
Here’s the breakdown outline from today’s conversation.
1. How Do You Share the Faith to One who has Denied Christ? 
– Common scenario: Husband who leaves the faith and wife who stays faithful. 
– Is the person in exile? Sojourn? Is it even possible? 
– The passage on apostasy (Heb 6:1-5). 
– Lordship Salvation & Easy Believism. 
– “He who has begun a good work will complete it by the day of Jesus Christ” (Phil 1:7).
 
2. Empathy with those in Lamentation. 
– Psalms, majority of them are not happy. 
– Grieving the Holy Spirit that can eventually lead to quenching the Holy Spirit. 
– The parable of the Four soils (Matt 13:1-23). 
– Hebrews 12:15-16 speaks of the issue of the root of bitterness. 
 
3. What is the Plan to Go about with Wayward Christian? 
– Counseling approach by, “Taking time” with the person. 
– “Men don’t cry.” Well, the shortest verse in the Bible, “Jesus wept” (John 11:35). 
– Let people cry and have a shoulder to cry on. 
– “He who gives an answer before he listens, it is folly and shame.” (Prov 18:13). 
– Give the benefit of the doubt. “What is going on down in the heart?” 
– People don’t overcome problems in just an hour. Give some time to walk through the narrative. 
– Every situation is different. You can’t just expect to take two tablets and move forward. 
 
4. Burden person walking into a church? 
– Spiritual warfare could be going on. There may be a dysfunction in their theological belief. 
– Evangelism & Apologetics comes into the conversation. 
– Restoration: The heart of the gospel from the garden and God bringing us back to the cross. 
– “Blessed be the God of all comfort and the God of all mercies” (2 Cor 1:3-4). 
 
Resources mentioned in today’s podcast
• The Majesty’s Men

Feedback
If you have a question, you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at jonathanhayashi.com.
Thanks for listening! If you have found this podcast helpful, go to iTunes and leave a rating & review! That is one simple way you can help me get this in the ears of as many people as possible. Thanks for the help!
Ordinary Radicals Podcast is a member of the HNR.GD Network

In this episode of the Ordinary Radicals podcast, Jonathan Hayashi, and Brandon Boatner about church hurt.
It’s a serious, isn’t it? There’s church hurt in people in general, but how does that all lay out? Why does this “hurt” seems unique? How does it manifest itself?
 
Some highlights from today’s episode.


Hurt is something we all go through because of sin.

Preach the word in and out of seasons.
Don’t want to be stuck in past circumstances, that influences the present moments, which unbales you to move towards the future opportunities.

Dealing with maturity can help move beyond church hurt.

Churches can be like counselor. It may take time for you to find a healthy church.
Criticism with concern is constructive. Criticism without concern is combative.
Casting stones, that hurts. That is the reason we can sympathize with those who hurt.
Church is not like family. Church IS FAMILY. That is why it hurt.

When we choose to forgive and move on, we are emulating Jesus to people.



Here’s the breakdown outline from today’s conversation.
1. What Does Church Hurt Look Like?
– Hurt Process: (1) Hurt (2) Anger (3) Bitter (4) Revenge.
– “See to it that no one fails to obtain the grace of God; that no “root of bitterness” springs up and causes trouble, and by it many become defiled” (Heb 12:15).
– Fruit of flesh vs. fruit of the spirit (Gal 5).
 
2. How Do We Best Minister to Those who Experience Church Hurt?
– Grace-filled moments? Preach the gospel to ourselves.
– Put on Christ vs. Put Off Self.
– Revitalization with those who experienced church hurt.
– Sit and talk about past issues may help at times to navigate difficult pain.
– Hurt people hurt people.
– “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort,” (2 Cor 1:3).
 
3. What Might We Tell People Stop Going to Church?
– I cannot be Jesus to everyone. I cannot be Messiah for people.
– Church is not museum of saints but hospital for sinners.
– “Do not neglect the assembly of believers” (Heb 10:24).
– There’s no perfect church. No judgement-free church.
 
4. Every Pastor Learned to Live with Church Hurt
– Everyone lives in a glasshouse. For a pastor? It’s up on top of a hill.
– “It is doubtful whether God can bless a man greatly until he has hurt him deeply” – A.W. Tozer
– Forgiveness is hurtful when we don’t want to forgive.
– “Forgive them for they know not what they do” (Luke 23:34).
 
Resources mentioned in today’s podcast

The Majesty’s Men

Feedback
If you have a question, you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at jonathanhayashi.com.
Thanks for listening! If you have found this podcast helpful, go to iTunes and leave a rating & review! That is one simple way you can help me get this in the ears of as many people as possible. Thanks for the help!
Ordinary Radicals Podcast is a member of the HNR.GD Network

In this episode of the Ordinary Radicals podcast, Jonathan Hayashi, and Brandon Boatner about the heavy topic of sexual abuse in the church. 
This is a topic that should be a burdensome and grievous topic for all of us. Difficult topic, yet by the grace of God and His help we want to talk about this idea of sexual abuse despite the secrecy surrounding this topic. 
How do we help those who feel helpless and hopeless in these situations? What about those who are weak and weary souls of fighting this uphill battle? Can we find answers? 
 
Some highlights from today’s episode.
• When was the last time you heard a pastor preach through the Song of Solomon? NEVER! 
• The secrecy of sex needs to stop.  
• Faith-based organizations are often huge targets. Why? For we live in a broken world. 
• Communicate to the body that, “We take zero-tolerance in regards to sexual abuse” 
• Even with background checks, predators will work through the systems. 
• Action doesn’t get a pastor out, but often it’s an accusation that gets pastors out. 
• Many of the cases of abuse have come from the hands of leadership. You need accountability. 
• Always err on the side of loving people well and protecting people that are coming. 
• We need to first lament and say, “Lord, have mercy” 
• If you’re outraged about all this, we are too.  
• Let’s find hope and help in the name of Jesus. 
 
Here’s the breakdown outline from today’s conversation.
1. The secrecy with the Topic of Sex in the Church  
– Sex is a topic that nobody wants to talk about and is suppressed often even in the church. 
– Sex happened before the garden and it is good. 
– “So, when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was a delight to the eyes, and that the tree was to be desired to make one wise, she took of its fruit and ate, and she also gave some to her husband who was with her, and he ate.” (Gen 3:6). 
– The secrecy of sex needs to stop.
 
2. How to Protect the Survivors in the Church 
– Listen and lament (sympathize) with those who bring the concern. 
– Predators will groom the people in the process. 
– Begin with awareness by teaching and training the body. 
– Everyone is a mandated reporter.
 
3. Guardrails for Protection 
– Billy Graham’s rule: Not to be alone with the opposite sex who is not your wife. 
– The protection of the system is not to meet alone with even children. 
– Abuse is a multifaceted issue that brings issues from all directions. 
– If something comes into the light, report it quickly. 
– It is better to be safe than sorry. 
– Sexual predators: this is not the first time, there’s usually a pattern already seen. 
 
4. SBC: Sexual Abuse Task Force (SATF). 
– “Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and God of all comfort” (2 Cor 1:3). 
– God’s Word is sufficient to help us in biblical reconciliation and restoration. 
– SBC polity, there’s no hierarchy to fire pastors or remove people like other denominations. 
– This is part of taking out the fire. We deal with it and let’s move forward together on a mission. 
– 
Resources mentioned in today’s podcast
• The Majesty’s Men
 
Feedback
If you have a question you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at jonathanhayashi.com.
Thanks for listening! If you have found this podcast helpful, go to iTunes and leave a rating & review! That is one simple way you can help me get this in the ears of as many people as possible. Thanks for the help!
Ordinary Radicals Podcast is a member of the HNR.GD Network

In this episode of the Ordinary Radicals podcast, Jonathan Hayashi, and Brandon Boatner about “Sharing the Pulpit”
This seems like an odd topic, but for Brandon and me, we have not seen this done very often or even very well.
Why is that so? Why don’t pastor like to share the pulpit? What are the benefits from having multiple different people speaking from the pulpit up front?
 
Some highlights from today’s episode.


Tradition itself is not bad. It can be good. In this case, this tradition is not so good.

Seminary can train people in classroom, but churches have great opportunity to give preaching.
Preachers, they need a break! Whether that is a reality or not, it is a true statement.

“Wait, why is the pastor not preaching? I thought we pay him to preach?”

Charles Spurgeon shared the pulpit with D.L. Moody. They both opposite theological spectrum.

A shepherd must “guard” the flock from those who are outside.

“Hey if you need anyone to preach, I am available” That is RED FLAG! Protect the pulpit.

 
Here’s the breakdown outline from today’s conversation.
1. Why Don’t People Share the Pulpit?
– There is a feeling that you share the pulpit, “This is MY SPACE!”
– Pulpit represents power and authority.
– Jewish synagogue: a rabbi will give a message up front (tradition of the Jews).
– Plurality of pastor is a biblical model. Not a solo pastor. Why? Cause there’s no perfect pastor.
2. What are the PROS to sharing the Pulpit?
– We are giving people experience.
– Give a break for the regular preaching pastors.
– Diverse gift set of spiritual gifts from multiple preachers.
– “Limited Grace Period” = time to learn and grow in preaching.
– “How pleasant it is when brothers united in harmony” (Ps 133:1).
3. What are the CONS to sharing the Pulpit?
– People may say something you disagree with.
– “He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil” (1 Tim 3:6).
– Internship program, residency training, pastoral leadership pipeline can be good training.
– Learn the basics by teaching how to focus on the Bible.
4. Moving Forward…..
– Homiletical Movement in the preaching outline. These are very helpful.
– Not only bible colleges or seminaries, but the local church should train next generations.
– I wish I had the training of preaching. If pulpit sharing happened, I would’ve been prepared.
Resources mentioned in today’s podcast

The Majesty’s Men

 
Feedback
If you have a question you would like answered on the show, fill out the form on the podcast page here at jonathanhayashi.com.
Thanks for listening! If you have found this podcast helpful, go to iTunes and leave a rating & review! That is one simple way you can help me get this in the ears of as many people as possible. Thanks for the help!
Ordinary Radicals Podcast is a member of the HNR.GD Network