Positive Disintegration Podcast

Emma Nicholson and Dr. Chris Wells
Positive Disintegration Podcast

What can be positive about disintegration? Join us for an exploration of positive disintegration through conversation and shared stories. It’s a framework for understanding a variety of intense experiences that often look and feel like mental illness, but which can also be viewed as building blocks for creating an authentic personality. www.positivedisintegration.org

  1. 1 DAY AGO

    Myth, Neurodivergence, and Transformation

    In episode 69, Chris and Emma talked with Lian Brook-Tyler, shamanic healer, teacher of unity, podcaster, and co-founder of the Be Mythical podcast. In this rich and wide-ranging conversation, we dive into the intersections of mysticism, neurodivergence, spirituality, transformation, and awakenings—connecting these profound experiences to Dabrowski’s theory of positive disintegration. We explore: * How neurodivergence can shape mystical and spiritual experiences. * The connection between shamanic practices, inner work, and positive disintegration. * The importance of doing the work of inner transformation and embracing the unknown. * The parallels between psychological and spiritual frameworks in understanding human development. Lian’s mythical journey truly began when she was ruptured open to Spirit with the sudden death of her father—which led to her mysteriously recovering from 15 years of chronic pain, panic attacks and anxiety. That inexplicable transformation inspired her to leave a leadership role in the corporate world to immerse herself in discovering what creates pain and struggle, and conversely, how to create a life overflowing with love, magic, beauty and truth Lian also shares how her work at Be Mythical, together with co-founder Jonathan Wilkinson, supports old souls and visionaries on initiatory journeys of self-discovery, using myth and ancient wisdom to find purpose and truth. Their work, Be Mythical, is an alchemy of ancient ways for modern days. It weaves together eclectic wisdom teachings and natural traditions such as rewilding, magic and animist spirituality, embodiment, and self-illumination into a soul-led, heart-centred, sovereign path of reclaiming your wildness, actualising your deepest gifts, to live fully and die complete. Here is the Tree of Life image Lian discussed during the episode Links from this episode Be Mythical website Be Mythical podcast Be Mythical episodes we mentioned: * “Over-excitability”: A more truthful and constructive perspective on neurodivergence? (episode with Chris) * How to know if you're really "Doing The Work"? Sara J. Sanderson interviews Lian Brook-Tyler Positive Disintegration Episode 29: The Disintegrating Duck Courses: https://www.bemythical.com/godeeper Free fb group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1694264587546957 Fb page: https://www.facebook.com/bemythical YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@BeMythical Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/be.mythical/ Moonly Newsletter: https://www.bemythical.com/moonly Connect with us Positive Disintegration on Substack Visit the Dabrowski Center website Facebook Instagram The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook The Tragic Gift blog by Emma Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Find Positive Disintegration Merch If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! Tuesday, December 10, 2024, is Colorado Gives Day. Please consider donating to the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization, and help support the Dabrowski Congress, other events, and our archive. This year, a generous anonymous donor has pledged to match gifts up to $2,500 USD. Thank you for supporting our work! This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

    1h 5m
  2. 20 NOV

    Overexcitabilities and Dąbrowski's Theory

    In episode 68, Chris and Emma debriefed about Chris’s session from NAGC 2023 titled “Overexcitabilities and Dąbrowski’s Theory: Correcting the Course in Gifted Education.” We covered the five common myths or misunderstandings about the theory of positive disintegration that were addressed in the presentation. We’ve been sitting on this episode because we didn’t have time to get it out right after last year's conference. Michael’s episode was the priority following NAGC 2023 since his 90th birthday was approaching. We were also concerned that we had shared so many posts about NAGC in the lead-up to the conference that people might be burned out on the topic—but now, we are ready to share! Highlights 00:02:13 Debriefing about the conference 00:03:50 Previous sessions from Chris at NAGC 00:07:22 Positive impact of the 2022 OE panel session 00:10:02 Myth 1: There is little or no empirical evidence for TPD 00:14:54 Myth 2: TPD is a theory of giftedness 00:24:27 Myth 3: Overexcitability can only be understood within the context of positive disintegration 00:28:43 We do still need the theory as a non-pathologizing framework 00:35:27 Myth 4: Overexcitability and openness to experience are the same thing, and the five-factor model can replace TPD 00:39:45 Myth 5: Overexcitability can be differentiated from ADHD and autism 00:44:50 There's no clear line of demarcation for types of neurodivergence and OE. 00:48:08 Best practices for working with overexcitability 00:52:58 Main takeaways from the session 00:56:49 We care a lot We hope you’ll enjoy this episode! We’re releasing it ahead of NAGC 2024 in Seattle. Chris submitted no proposals this year and looks forward to attending NAGC without presenting for once. They feel it’s worth repeating this material from last year instead. Links from this episode Click here for the download Chris shared at NAGC with slides and relevant papers. View the post NAGC 2023: Overexcitabilities and Dąbrowski’s Theory from November 2023. The song “We Care a Lot” by Faith No More (1985), for those who are unfamiliar. It was mentioned during this exchange at the end of the episode. Connect with us Positive Disintegration on Substack Visit the Dabrowski Center website Facebook Instagram The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook The Tragic Gift blog by Emma Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Find Positive Disintegration Merch If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

    58 min
  3. 12 NOV

    Depathologizing Intense Experiences

    In episode 67, Chris and Emma were joined by Caitlin Hughes from the Divergent Dialogues podcast. Caitlin is an accredited mental health social worker and founder of Cathartic Collaborations, a neurodivergent-affirming private practice based in Brisbane, Australia. We dive deep into the complexities of multi-exceptional neurodivergent identities, the journey of self-discovery, and the importance of embracing our differences. We discussed the theory of positive disintegration as a liberating framework that offers an alternative to the pathology paradigm. Here are some highlights from our conversation: * The Power of Self-Understanding: Caitlin shares their personal journey of late diagnosis as an AuDHD PDAer, highlighting the profound impact this had on their self-perception. We talked about the importance of understanding ourselves and how this knowledge can lead to a transformative process of healing and self-acceptance. Our identities are multifaceted, and embracing our unique neurotypes can empower us to live authentically. * Depathologizing Difference: One of the core themes of our conversation is the need to depathologize neurodivergent experiences. Caitlin discusses how societal narratives often frame neurodivergent traits as deficits rather than strengths. By embracing neurodivergent identities and advocating for a more inclusive understanding, we can create spaces where individuals feel seen and validated. * The Role of Sensual Giftedness: Caitlin introduces the concept of sensual giftedness and how it plays a significant role in their practice. They explain how processing emotions and experiences through sensory modalities can lead to deeper healing. This perspective is particularly enlightening for those of us who may have felt misunderstood or marginalized due to our sensory sensitivities. Caitlin's insights remind us that our unique ways of experiencing the world can be powerful tools for growth and self-discovery. (Please note that at 23:44, Caitlin said granite when they meant to say “graphite” when referring to diamonds and granite). Caitlin uses their intersectional lived experience to therapeutically support neurocomplex & neuroqueer folks. They utilize somatic therapeutic modalities to support clients to heal systemic trauma and embrace their unique neurotype, strengths, and differences, empowering them to build a self-defined life of meaning and purpose. Caitlin has a Facebook group called "Neurodivergent Affirming Social Workers Collective" where they want to inspire and support other Social Workers to grow in their neurodivergent affirming practice. Caitlin is co-host of "Divergent Dialogues" a neurodivergent affirming podcast and blog on Substack which explores a blend of current research, lived and professional experience. Caitlin is currently completing a PhD with a strong interest in qualitative research in the area of autistic mental health. Links from this Episode Cathartic Collaborations Divergent Dialogues on Substack Episode 25: Multi-exceptionality, Overexcitabilities and Positive Disintegration with Chris and Emma Social media: @cathartic.collaborations (on Facebook and Instagram) Neurodivergent Affirming Social Workers Collective on Facebook 2024 Dabrowski Congress videos (available for $15 USD) Head Office, Making Sense of My Mind (Emma’s video) Mellow Out by Michael M. Piechowski is the book Chris recommended about overexcitabilities and personal growth Bring Me the Horizon — Mantra (song on YouTube) InterGifted Hearing Voices Network Excerpt from Fragments from the Diary of a Madman by Cienin Mr. Sparkle (fun behind-the-scenes fact: this was in reference to a Mr Sparkle t-shirt Emma was wearing during recording!) Connect with us Positive Disintegration on Substack Visit the Dabrowski Center website Facebook Instagram The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook The Tragic Gift blog by Emma Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gma

    1h 6m
  4. 28 OCT

    Three Years of Positive Disintegration

    In episode 66, Chris and Emma celebrated the podcast’s third birthday! We reflect on our highlights, challenges, and lessons over the last year. One of the most rewarding aspects of our podcast journey has been the incredible community we've built around the theory of positive disintegration. The relationships we’ve formed—both with each other and with our listeners—have been instrumental in our development. We’ve witnessed the transformation of individuals within our community, and it’s a reminder of how vital connection is in our personal and professional lives. We touch on letting go of perfectionism. We both know that growth is an ongoing process, and it’s okay not to have everything figured out. We share our experiences navigating challenges and how they’ve pushed us to rethink our values and boundaries. This journey of self-discovery is not linear, and embracing the messiness of life as we continue to evolve is essential. Our conversation also delves into the complexities of values and how they can clash, especially in today’s polarized world. We explore how different perspectives can lead to misunderstandings and the importance of recognizing that our values may manifest differently in our actions. This insight fosters empathy and understanding in personal relationships and broader societal contexts. Links from this episode Our previous birthday episodes from year 1 (Ep. 20, Values) and year 2 (Ep. 46). Episode 34, Mental health Awareness was mentioned Emma’s post Visualisation, Sel-Therapy, and the Shadow Beast Chris’s post Making Friends and Building Community Some of the highlights mentioned from our last year * Episode 47, Harry Potter and the Path of Disintegration with Katy McDaniel and Emily Strand * Episode 48, Piechowski’s Insights on Positive Disintegration with Michael M. Piechowski * Episode 50, Giftedness and Personality with Deborah Ruf * Episode 52: Voice as a Mirror of Inner States with Laura Stavinoha * Episode 54: Navigating the Tides of Change, from Gift-a-Palooza 2024 * Episode 55: Gifted Intersections and Transformation with Kaitlin Smith * Episode 56: Autoethnography for Personal Growth * Episode 57: Nurturing Giftedness and Overexcitabilities in the Classroom with Summer Cowick * Episode 58: Building Better Social Worlds with Theory with Sergej van Middendorp and Abbie VanMeter * Episode 60: Dabrowski 101, An Introduction to the Theory of Positive Disintegration * Episode 61: The Power of Professional Identity with Sarabeth Berk Bickerton * Episode 62: Discovering Your Inner Compass, our DC2024 workshop * Episode 63 Diverse Voices and Gifted Belonging with Sheldon Gay Videos from the 2024 Dabrowski Congress are available for $15 here. Connect with us Positive Disintegration on Substack Visit the Dabrowski Center website Facebook Instagram The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook The Tragic Gift blog by Emma Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Find Positive Disintegration Merch If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

    55 min
  5. 21 OCT

    Reflections on Giftedness and Dąbrowski's Theory, Part 2

    In episode 65, Chris and Emma continue their two-part conversation with Dr. Linda Silverman. Linda shares her insights on asynchronous development, emphasizing the importance of understanding IQ scores as minimal estimates and not definitive indicators of a person's potential. Linda also reflects on her involvement with the Dabrowski Congress and the evolution of the giftedness community. She recounts her role in developing the concept of asynchronous development with the Columbus Group and creating Advanced Development Journal, a unique publication dedicated to adult giftedness. Chris and Emma express their gratitude for Linda’s decades of work and share how her contributions continue to inspire new generations to explore the intersections of giftedness, neurodivergence, and positive disintegration. This episode explores the challenges and triumphs of advocating for a deeper understanding of giftedness and positive disintegration. Links from this episode Gifted Development Center website Advanced Development Journal Institute for the Study of Advanced Development (ISAD) For a deeper dive into asynchronous development, we suggest the book Off the Charts by Neville, Piechowski, & Tolan (Eds.) Download “Giftedness: The View from Within” by Martha J. Morelock (1992), the first published article about asynchronous development. It was published in the journal Linda mentioned, Understanding Our Gifted. Episodes with people we mentioned: * Episode 5, Researching Overexcitability, with Frank Falk * Episode 19, The Challenge of Levels, with Stephanie Tolan * Episode 48, Piechowski’s Insights on Positive Disintegration with Michael M. Piechowski Chris’s paper from ADJ: The Primary Importance of the Inner Experience of Giftedness Michael Piechowski’s Table of Forms and Manifestations of Overexcitability Giftedness as Neurodivergence, Not Functioning Label by Marni Kammersell and Katy Higgins Lee. The link is a YouTube video of their presentation from the 2024 Dabrowski Congress. Click here to purchase the 2024 Dabrowski Congress recordings for full access. For the remainder of 2024, the purchase price has been reduced to $15 USD. Thank you to everyone who has supported this event. Connect with us Positive Disintegration on Substack Visit the Dabrowski Center website Facebook Instagram The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook The Tragic Gift blog by Emma Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Find Positive Disintegration Merch If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

    43 min
  6. 14 OCT

    Reflections on Giftedness and Dąbrowski's Theory, Part 1

    In episode 64, Chris and Emma talked with Dr. Linda Silverman, a licensed clinical and counseling psychologist in Westminster, Colorado. Linda founded and directs the Institute for the Study of Advanced Development (ISAD) and its subsidiary, Gifted Development Center. This episode is Part 1 of a two-part series with Dr. Silverman. The first conversation explores Linda's discovery of Dabrowski's theory in 1979 and her role in establishing the Dabrowski Study Group with Dr. Frank Falk at the University of Denver. Listeners will also gain insights into the complexities of giftedness, including the controversial issue of IQ testing. Linda reflects on how societal shifts have shaped gifted education and the changes she has observed during her career. She offers a candid critique of the limitations of the field, highlighting the challenges of adequately identifying and supporting the unique needs of highly gifted individuals. Her work has had a profound impact on individuals as well as our broader understanding of giftedness. This discussion included many articles and resources, which we’ve shared below. Part 2 will be released soon! Links from this episode Gifted Development Center website Advanced Development Journal Institute for the Study of Advanced Development (ISAD) We’ve tried to include the following links in the order they were mentioned. Michael Piechowski’s chapter on Developmental Potential from New Voices in Counseling the Gifted. The other chapter mentioned was Giftedness as Multilevel Potential by Kay Ogburn-Colangelo. The book, edited by Nicholas Colangelo and Ronald T. Zaffrann, can still be found online. Click here to read Linda's review for Contemporary Psychology called “Gifts for The Gifted.” The Theory of Positive Disintegration and its Implications for Giftedness by Silverman & Ellsworth, from the 1980 conference Linda discussed attending. Interesting Quotes, Vol. 7 featured work by Marlene Rankel Episodes with folks mentioned in this episode: * Episode 5, Researching Overexcitability, with Frank Falk * Episode 35, Dąbrowski’s Theory in Practice with Patty Gatto-Walden * Episode 48, Piechowski’s Insights on Positive Disintegration with Michael M. Piechowski Chris discussed meeting Linda at the 2015 SENG Conference. SENG stands for Supporting the Emotional Needs of the Gifted. Making Friends and Building Community is the post that Chris mentioned. Two papers by Linda were mentioned: * The Two-Edged Sword of Compensation (Gifted Education International) * My Love Affair with Dabrowski’s Theory (Roeper Review) Nancy Miller’s MACS coding system and dissertation were mentioned. You can also read about MACS in this paper, which Nancy co-authored with Linda in Roeper Review. Sam Ammirato’s dissertation In a Different Voice by Carol Gilligan Linda mentioned her book Counseling the Gifted & Talented How the Gifted Cope With Their Emotions by Annemarie Roeper Linda talked about chapters by Michael Piechowski on emotional giftedness. His chapter from 1997 was the focus of Interesting Quotes, Vol. 2. She also pointed out that his book Mellow Out is an excellent source for learning about emotional and spiritual giftedness. “When Does Water Become Steam?” was presented by Linda in 2018 at the Triple Nine Society’s annual ggg999 meeting. Ann Klein’s book A Forgotten Voice is a biography of Leta S. Hollingworth. “A Feminine Perspective on Giftedness” is the chapter Linda said is currently being updated. Connect with us Positive Disintegration on Substack Visit the Dabrowski Center website Facebook Instagram The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook The Tragic Gift blog by Emma Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Find Positive Disintegration Merch If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotif

    55 min
  7. 25 SEPT

    Diverse Voices and Gifted Belonging

    In episode 63, Chris and Emma talked with Sheldon Gay, a serial entrepreneur with a background in engineering and a tech-focused MBA. As a late-identified gifted and, therefore, neurodivergent Black man, Sheldon uses his experiences to help others embrace their unique identities and foster community through his podcast, I Must Be BUG’N. In this episode, we dive into the complexities of giftedness, the importance of diverse voices in the gifted community, and the journey of self-discovery. Here are three key takeaways from our conversation: The Power of Mirroring: Sheldon emphasizes the critical need for representation and mirroring within the gifted community, especially for marginalized populations. Many gifted individuals often feel isolated, believing they are the only ones experiencing their unique challenges. By elevating diverse voices, we can create a more inclusive environment where everyone feels seen and understood. This mirroring is essential for fostering authentic connections and validating our experiences. Self-Reflection as a Tool for Growth: Throughout our conversation, we explore the importance of self-awareness and self-reflection in navigating the complexities of giftedness. Sheldon shares his journey of discovering the theory of positive disintegration and how it opened the floodgates to understanding himself better. This process of introspection is not just about identifying where we stand but also about recognizing the areas where we can grow. It’s a reminder that our paths are not linear, and embracing the messiness of self-discovery is part of the journey. Challenging Traditional Definitions of Giftedness: Part of our conversation touches on the traditional definitions of giftedness, which often focus on IQ and academic performance. Sheldon challenges this by suggesting giftedness is a multifaceted experience that encompasses emotional depth, creativity, and unique perspectives. By broadening our understanding of what it means to be gifted, we can create a more inclusive understanding that celebrates diverse talents and abilities. We also discuss levels of development, self-awareness, and multidimensionality. Doing inner work and exploring our depths. Sheldon introduces the concept of "shadow thoughts," which are the unspoken beliefs and internal narratives that shape our self-perception. These thoughts often originate from external influences, such as societal expectations or familial messages, and can hinder authentic self-expression. By confronting and understanding these shadow thoughts, individuals can begin to dismantle the barriers that prevent them from fully embracing their giftedness. This is a rich conversation, and we invite you to join us. We also suggest you follow Sheldon’s podcast, which we’ve linked to below. Links from this episode Sheldon’s podcast I Must Be BUG’N We mentioned the episode It Must Be Them, Not Me, Part 1 (with Visuals) Sheldon’s website Our Wild Minds Episode 55 with Kaitlin Smith Episode 48 with Michael Piechowski The Origins paper Chris mentioned writing with Frank Falk Connect with us Positive Disintegration on Substack Visit the Dabrowski Center website Facebook Instagram The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook The Tragic Gift blog by Emma Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Find Positive Disintegration Merch If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

    1h 12m
  8. 10 SEPT

    Discovering Your Inner Compass: Our DC2024 Workshop

    In episode 62, Chris and Emma delivered the audio from the DC2024 workshop they previewed in episode 58. The Dabrowski Congress was a special experience, and this workshop was no exception. So, we’d like to say a big thank you to the people who shared their thoughts and questions with us during the session because they really helped make it amazing. We hope you’ll enjoy our workshop, too, and participate with us as you listen! Values are at the heart of the theory of positive disintegration. They play a crucial role in personal growth and understanding your identity, serving as an inner compass to guide behavior and decision-making. We emphasize the significance of understanding personal values, their evolution, and their impact on our behavior. Values are the principles or standards that inform our behavior, driven by what we perceive as important in life. They are not static—they shift and evolve as we grow and encounter new experiences and challenges. This dynamic nature is essential for personal development, as it allows us to reassess and redefine what is meaningful to us over time. Just as a compass provides direction, values help us navigate our lives, particularly during times of disintegration or uncertainty. Establishing and understanding your hierarchy of values is critical for the processes of autopsychotherapy and self-education. The journey toward authenticity is facilitated by recognizing and aligning with our core values. The session aims to help participants discover their core drivers, define their values, and embark on a journey toward authenticity, so there are reflection exercises and questions through the workshop. A quote we shared from an interview Dr. Dabrowski gave in 1979, which was published as “The Heroism of Sensitivity” in 1994: “Creating new values is a fundamental part of development. When we grow, we start to have a different view of reality and that leads us to reorder our value system. We create values by our self-observation, by our thinking, and by putting our ideals into practice. Discovering in ourselves higher levels of development, higher tendencies, and sensitivities, we simultaneously create them.” Listeners are encouraged to participate actively by taking notes and reflecting on prompting questions throughout the workshop. There will be places during the episode for you to pause and reflect on the questions being asked. Workshop slides are available for further reference by clicking the button below or from the resource list. Links from this episode Click here to download the PDF of our slides Watch the video of our session on YouTube Visit the 2024 Dabrowski Congress page Purchase DC2024 recordings Connect with us Positive Disintegration on Substack Visit the Dabrowski Center website Facebook Instagram The Positive Disintegration YouTube Channel Adults with Overexcitabilities group on Facebook The Tragic Gift blog by Emma Email us at positivedisintegration.pod@gmail.com Please consider supporting the podcast to help fund this work through the Dabrowski Center, a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization. Find Positive Disintegration Merch If you enjoyed this episode on Apple or Spotify, please remember to click on the stars and leave a rating or write a review. Thank you! This is a public episode. If you’d like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.positivedisintegration.org/subscribe

    58 min

About

What can be positive about disintegration? Join us for an exploration of positive disintegration through conversation and shared stories. It’s a framework for understanding a variety of intense experiences that often look and feel like mental illness, but which can also be viewed as building blocks for creating an authentic personality. www.positivedisintegration.org

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