Management Caf‪é‬ Virtual not Distant

Several times recently in the Management Café our hosts have talked about regrets. Those formative management experiences where they look back and wish they had acted differently. Making mistakes is part of our learning journey but some situations weigh on us more than others. Revisiting them can bring a range of challenging emotions like regret, guilt and shame.

Regret is an uncomfortable feeling, it's something we avoid. The discomfort can be heightened for managers who have a duty of care over their team and the extra weight that comes with an official title and position within the hierarchy.

Yet we can't just ignore it and move on. Regret carries valuable knowledge. It helps us understand what truly matters to us. It makes us aware of what behaviours need to change to in order to match our values. And it doesn't want to let go until we've acknowledged the lesson. This can be a slow and painful but very worthwhile process.

Pilar and Tim share a few of their (many) regrets as managers and talk how these experiences changed them. For our hosts this conversation is, in the words of Hector Santiesteban, restorative and therapeutic.

SHOW NOTES


00:30 mins In episode #74 "Leading in the Flow of Work", Pilar and Tim each talked about how they previously tried to live a life without regrets. But with age and more experiences this changed. Inevitably there are lots of regrets.

2:20 Regret can be a very helpful emotion for managers. It tells us that our actions in a particular situation weren't in line with our values. And it is important that in the future we handle these situations differently. Regret is a guide for our behaviour. When a situation comes up again we can be reminded of our regret. This helps us make better decisions in the moment.

4:15 Regret is uncomfortable but knowing that we can learn from bad experiences can make them a little more bearable. Regret wants us to understand why we feel bad about our actions and to try behaving differently in the future.

5:15 We experience regret because we care about what happened. If we pay attention to our regret and explore why we cared so much about a particular situation, it helps us better understand our values and how we want to live.

6:30 Tim used to tell himself that he'd never regret something if he felt he'd made a good decision based on what he knew then. But he came to realise that a lack of knowledge or awareness didn't necessarily excuse his actions and decisions. He'd still experience regret.

7:15 If we reject our regrets and hide behind phrases like "it's just business" then we are denying ourselves a valuable opportunity to learn.

8:00 Pilar highlights two different learning experiences. The first is regret from doing something we know we shouldn't do. The second is more nuanced - we think we're doing the right thing but we aren't. We are lacking the knowledge or experience to know better. So regret comes in to teach us.

8:50 Tim shares a story of one of his big regrets, when he reacted poorly to one of his team members who was struggling during a difficult period. The way Tim handled this situation nagged away at him for a long time. Looking back he can see he turned away from an opportunity to connect with and support the person. As a result they both suffered more.

12:00 This realisation took a long time to arrive and revealed itself in stages.

14:00 Talking about these situations with others can help us see things differently.

15:30 Pilar has a big regret from her period teaching A level students for Theatre Studies. A situation came up where her natural approach of positive reinforcement didn't work. She can still picture her student's face when it went awry! But for Pilar, the lesson was learnt and she decided to get better at corrective feedback.

20:15 Another of Pilar's regrets came from ignoring her gut instinct when taking on client work. The next time her gut started to tell her "no",

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Let's face it, management has a mixed reputation. It seems like everyone has a story to tell about their manager doing something poorly. But when we break it down, often times it's that we've had a bad experience with a manager. That person might actually be an ok manager overall or even a good manager. But in this instance they did something wrong.
Something we keep coming back to in the Management Café is how managers' mistakes impact the humans they manage. And these impacts are not trivial. People's jobs are important to them. They are linked to financial security, to their plans for the future, to their sense of self-worth and wellbeing. Bad experiences and bad managers can affect the employees for a long time afterwards.
There are many reasons why managers make mistakes. Some people just aren't suited to the job. Some aren't a good fit for a particular company or team or individual or situation. Some are still learning. It might not even be in the manager's control - for example bad behaviour might originate from someone more senior or the organisation itself. And of course managers are fallible just like everyone else. Sometimes they just mess up. 
Most confusing of all is that these conditions are fluid. And it is about perception. A good manager for employee A might be a bad manager for employee B. The manager might think they did the right thing and their superiors or peers or team members might agree. But the affected employee can still disagree. Any they might all be right! As always, it's a tough job being a manager...

SHOW NOTES


00:00 mins Content warning! Talking about bad management can be triggering.

00:30 Pilar talks about her father, a senior engineer who did not like management.

2:00 People often grumble about management in general, but in reality they are talking about bad managers. There is a big difference.

3:40 It might take just one mistake for an average manager to be viewed as a bad manager. And once they are perceived as a bad manager it can be difficult to shift.

6:00 Nobody comes into management fully formed. We learn as we go and we make mistakes - many of which have an impact on the people we manage. So a person who is learning and growing as a manager will feel regret and guilt. This is not given enough importance by organisations. It's a difficult job and managers should be better supported.

7:20 Some managers take a defensive stance to protect themselves against the human impact of their actions. The phrase "It's not personal, it's just business" comes to mind...

8:15 Context is so important. If we want someone to do their best work, the environment and fit need to be right. This will be different for different people. And it can change with the circumstances. Tim shares an anecdote of managing someone who started off thinking he was a good manager, but ended up thinking he was a bad one.

10:45 When interviewing candidates, Tim could sometimes see the scars left on people through their experiences with bad managers. As Pilar points out, this experiences are carried forward into future interactions. It forms part of the psychological contract that we create with our workplace. (Check out episode #5 for more on this.)

13:40 If an employee has only experienced micromanagement, that becomes their expectation of what management is.

14:00 Manager "readmes" can be helpful for employees and managers to make their expectations and needs more explicit.

15:30 There is often a big disconnection between the people making a decision and the people impacted by that decision. Pilar shares an example from the Harvard Business Review article "Leading in the Flow of Work" (the bulk of this article was discussed in episode #74), where a hospital's administration suddenly introduced a meeting during a critical part of the day for the clinicians and staff required to atten

Tim and Pilar discuss an article featured in the Jan/Feb 2024 edition of the Harvard Business Review: "Leading in the Flow of Work" by Hitendra Wadhwa, Founder of the Mentora Institute.

Hitendra posits that "rather than (being) a trait to be acquired, leadership is a state to be activated" through preparation, self awareness and reflection. By managing our internal state and matching our actions to the context, we will function better and more authentically as leaders.

The article especially focusses on conversations and how leaders can get better outcomes by making conscious choices about what to do. It's an attractive premise, to be able to skilfully navigate the challenges of fluid interactions by pausing and then choosing, in the moment, an appropriate action for the situation.

This model lists five core energies: Purpose (committed to a noble cause), Wisdom (calm and receptive to the truth), Growth (curious and open to learning), Love (connected with those you work with and serve) and Self-realisation (centered in a joyful spirit). This is supported by 25 actions which help activate these core energies.

For our hosts this discussion is bittersweet. There is excitement at the prospect of making better decisions during important interactions. And there is also regret that our past selves didn't have the advantage of our current knowledge. Ironically of course it is that same regret which makes us the older and wiser person we are today...



0:30 mins Pilar appreciated several examples from the article of someone turning a potential confrontation into a better situation via the person shifting their approach.

2:30 Tim had previously associated flow states with sports - quite a different interpretation which is about acting without conscious thought or decision, just using instinct and muscle memory. But within the context of the article the flow state is where we are "calmly aware of our inner and outer conditions and able to adapt our behaviour as needed". Pilar describes this as a split personality between being present and reviewing what's going on. And being able to shift behaviour based on this conscious awareness.

5:25 We can all relate to the feeling of something not going the way we expected. When we unpack it afterwards we gain new insight and realise we should have acted differently. Alas, the moment has passed. Certainly both our hosts have experienced this many times!

6:25 The article shares a compelling example, from Jonathan Aitken's biography of Margaret Thatcher, about a pivotal meeting between Thatcher and Mikhail Gorbachev. At a crucial point Gorbachev was able to change his approach and in the process, change the course of history. He reminded himself of his intention coming into the meeting. He reframes his perception of how Thatcher is acting. And he finds alignment with her on principles.

8:20 Pilar shares that a realisation that has been transformational for her: that people are generally not acting with malice - they are trying to do what they believe is right.

8:50 We can practice and get better at understanding and acting within the moment itself. But it takes a lot of effort. And time.

10:50 Letting go of our everyday habits and ego can free us to choose the best way to act. It also requires the empathy of understanding what is happening for the other person.

12:15 Our hosts wrestle with the regrets that come with learning and evolving. But our experiences make us the person that we are today.

14:15 Leadership is not a static state: "The personality and behaviour of someone will change with the context that the person is in, the thoughts and feelings that individual is experiencing and who else is present". Pilar shares a story about how a change in context made a big difference in her performance.

17:00 This framework reminds us that our habitual behaviours aren't always going to work. If we are able to be aware and present in the mome

In 2024 Generative AI is still an a rapidly emerging technology. We know it's going to impact lots of jobs and work behaviour. But it's not yet apparent how that impact will be felt.

There is a big difference between ChatGPT helping you with a task (e.g. summarising your notes or drafting a communication) vs using it to entirely perform the task (e.g. using AI generated output without editing). Managers need to be mindful of how they are using AI, especially as it is increasingly embedded in digital workplace communication tools.

Transparency is also key - people should know why something might sound a little different than your normal style. Ultimately with a technology as prevalent and seductive as Gen AI, it's critical that we use it as an aid. We must not lose ourselves or our human connection to those we manage and work with.

Show notes:
02:00 mins Our ability to experiment with new technology is much influenced by our context. Freelancers or those with lots of autonomy have an easier time experimenting with new tech. But those working in large, heavily controlled environments might have to wait a lot longer before they get to play.

3:45 AI is also showing up in software tools for example Helpscout bought an AI company to automatically draft replies to inbound support requests.

4:25 Kona have created an AI powered management coach in Slack. Tim is very uneasy about this - he feels that an authentic response, even if it isn't perfect, is still better than a "best practice" response. But Pilar rightly points out that some managers will just google "five tips for how to..." and then follow that advice. Is AI any worse?

6:15 AI can be even easier to ask than a human, e.g. if you had an external support network like we discussed in #65. AI is always available and quite forgiving. You don't even have to say please or thank you. Pilar has had to guard against becoming lazy because of the help she can get from ChatGPT.

8:10 Tim takes a "get off my lawn" approach that hard things, like writing a performance review, should be hard. Struggling through them makes you better at them and that experience is valuable. He also worries about the message it sends to your employees if they received a performance review written by ChatGPT.

10:00 Pilar outlines a different scenario where someone who has all the skills of a great manager but struggles to produce a well structured written summary. ChatGPT can help that manager draft the document. If the manager should be transparent with the employee that ChatGPT was used in creating the summary, the result can be a good one. After all back in the day a senior manager might have gotten their secretary to write up a performance review for them based on notes provided.

13:45 To get the best outcome the input needs to be detailed and high quality. And the final product must be edited and reviewed by the creator so that it reflects the reality of what they were trying to communicate.

16:15 Mindful use of generative AI takes a bit of work, but it means that you really are using it to represent your own thoughts and ideas.

17:55 The key for Pilar is transparency. Creators should disclose where they have used AI.

19:30 A danger with ChatGPT is it can disincentivise us from getting better at some valuable skills.

20:30 Rapidly emerging technology can create issues between those who are onboard with it and those who are not. People's awareness and tolerance and adoption happen at different paces.

21:30 Tim is concerned that use of AI by managers can damage authenticity and connection. It takes conscious effort to maintain human connection in a digital workplace, technology doesn't provide this by default. And yet AI is increasingly embedded in our communication tools.

23:00 Pilar agrees, but advocates for the benefits of mindful use. For example, someone who isn't very proficient in English could get great benefits from ChatGPT helping th

Following on from coffee #71 about the impact of technology on our leadership practice, Pilar and Tim talk about emoji as a communications tool for managers. Tiny and ubiquitous, it's easy to underestimate their importance.

But when used skilfully, emoji give us a visual language that can provide faster and more concise communication. Within the context of our teams and companies this communal language and interpretation can be another way for us to bond.

Unfortunately when used without context, emoji can struggle to overcome ambiguity. Some reactions, like anger, can be jarring when delivered via a tiny cartoon.

And in a world of "likes", the absence of an emoji can be felt as much as it's presence. "Did nobody read my message?" "Why did she like their post but not my post?" "They posted a slightly smiling face but why didn't they post the crying tears of laughter smiley face..."


01:00 mins Our hosts start with the question of whether to "thumbs up" or not "thumbs up".

02:00 Tim is very pro-emoji.

2:50 Pilar rarely uses the thumbs up, her favourite emoji is the thinker.

3:00 With the ease and popularity of quick reactions via emoji it can be addictive to "post for the likes". This can diminish communication if the primary aim is to get approval. This was covered by Basecamp on the Rework podcast "Please Don't Like This" and "Update: Please Don't Like This".

4:30 Pilar points out that because emoji are inherently playful it's not given the attention it deserves. And for Tim this is true, he primarily uses emoji in a light-hearted way.

5:50 Pilar shares an example of the dissonance which comes from using cartoons to express something serious.

6:45 Emoji are a very important tool that isn't given enough importance.

8:30 Pilar changes her position - Tim wishes he could give this a thumbs up in the café.

9:40 Mindless use of emoji is a problem but when used with intention they can help managers find new, nuanced ways to express themselves.

10:30 Emoji are, in each workplace, a language that is co-created. The person sending the emoji needs to know how it will be interpreted by those who see it.

11:45 Our hosts fantasise about a book "The Emoji Manager, how to manage your team using just 50 emoji".

12:45 How we use emoji in our teams is part of our team norms and culture. It can be a way for managers to bond their teams around a common language and behaviours.

13:45 Emoji make it easy for us to react. Pilar puts it best, that emoji allow us to "cut down on the time we're investing but not cut down on the effect of the communication".

16:20 Tim shares an example of how the managers in his leadership team started using emoji to facilitate their meeting preparation.

17:15 Much like an emoji, things get a little lighthearted and playful.

What about you, dear listener? How do you use emoji? We'd love to hear from you!
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We hear a lot about tech. Tech disrupts businesses and creates unicorns. Tech changes workplaces and creates new ways to interact. But what about the impact of technology on our management practices?

Our hosts talk about the difficulties that come if we allow technology to dictate how we manage. And the unintended consequences if we don't align our technology tools with the problems we are experiencing.

00:30 mins Tim still writes everything into notebooks that he carries around and claims he is a "grumpy old man" with regard to technology - which is somewhat ironic given his previous company couldn't have existed without modern tech.

01:00 Pilar also prefers writing over typing but she uses a Remarkable tablet which makes it easier to share with others.

3:00 Over the last 15 years Tim has made the shift from early adopter to laggard.

5:30 It can be tempting to introduce technology "for technology's sake", using an application because it's popular or easy to implement. But if it's not solving a problem - what is the purpose? For example, several times Tim tried and failed to introduce Slack at his previous company. It only succeeded once the team had grown and the volume of internal emails became unsustainable. The moral is to not adopt something without first being clear on what problem you're trying to solve.

7:15 It's particularly important to remember as team leaders that a new piece of tech might solve a problem for us, but if it isn't also improving things for our team... adoption is going to be difficult.

8:20 Tim shares why some of the internal tools at Shield GEO were popular with staff even though the systems were ugly and clunky (hi Salesforce!).

9:00 Similarly technology, especially software, needs to be adapted to the needs of your team and the problem you're trying to solve.

10:20 Pilar gets us back on track by posing the question, "Did introducing technology change the way we managed people?"

11:15 Going back to Tim's memories of using Salesforce at Shield GEO, he talks about trying to drive behaviour in his team through using some default statistical reports. And finding unintended consequences, it drove the opposite behaviour to what was intended.

14:30 Slack changed how Tim managed his direct reports. It enabled much more structured and filtered communication.

16:15 Open communication tools like Slack can create their own set of problems. It can be distracting due to the volume of information flying past. It can lead us to get involved in discussions that don't need our input. And it can lead us to be more reactionary in communication.

18:25 How many likes are appropriate for a manager to sprinkle about? Pilar and Tim have differing views.

20:30 Overuse of the Slack "like" emoji pales into comparison with the horror of a reply-all email appreciation thread.

21:45 What are the impacts of your "like" strategy? If you are an intermittent liker, how will your likes be interpreted? And what will people think about the posts or comments you didn't engage with?

22:30 We've hit a nerve, stay tuned for a future episode on "managing by emoji".

What about you, dear listener? Has tech changed the way you manage? We'd love to hear from you!
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