We Need To Talk About Lucy Letby

Peter Elston and Michael McConville
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We Need To Talk About Lucy Letby

We Need To Talk About Lucy Letby is a podcast series hosted by statistician Peter Elston and retired doctor Michael McConville. Lucy Letby was a neonatal nurse at The Countess of Chester Hospital in NW England who was convicted in August 2023 of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder a further six on seven occasions, though she was found not guilty on two counts of attempted murder and verdicts could not be reached in another six. In this series, Peter and Michael discuss the many aspects of the case and the steps over more than ten years that led to Lucy ending up in HMP Bronzefield serving 14 full life terms. But could it be the worst miscarriage of justice in British legal history?

  1. 20. Magic Eye

    30 JUN

    20. Magic Eye

    Hospital management finally learns of the extent of the increased mortality over the previous year or so, thouigh why they did not know earlier is a mystery. Immediately they decide to no longer admit babies below 32 weeks gestation and to invite the RCPCH to conduct a service review. The consultants also demand that Lucy is taken off the ward on the basis of no evidence whatsoever.

    54 min
  2. 19. Toytown

    23 JUN

    19. Toytown

    June 2016 proves to be a particularly frenetic month at The Circus of Chester. There is no essential medicine for a baby with haemophilia. 33 week triplets are admitted but do not receive the care promised the mother. Two of them die and the third is transferred to Liverpool Women's Hospital. The mother later says the two hospitals were "as different as night and day".

    50 min
  3. 18. Occam's Razor again and again. And again. And again.

    16 JUN

    18. Occam's Razor again and again. And again. And again.

    Michael and Peter continue to discuss Rachel Aviv's article in The New Yorker. They note how time and time again Countess consultants dismissed obvious explanations for deaths and honed in on Lucy. But, docs, if you thought Lucy had killed babies as you say you did from the getgo, why didn’t you order forensic autopsies? Were you worried they might find you culpable rather than a nurse?

    52 min
  4. 17. Beyond baffling

    9 JUN

    17. Beyond baffling

    Babies A, C and D die in June 2015 and hospital consultants immediately identify an association with Lucy Letby. They did not associate the deaths with the acute pneumonia, phospholipid syndrome, emergency caesarian, low birthweights, lack of antibiotics, lack of fluids, delay in transfer to neonatal unit, crossed pulmonary arteries, multiple birth issues, effect of anaesthetic, high blood pressure, problems with two long lines, dangerous placenta condition, and sepsis. The pathologist did. Why didn't you, docs?

    51 min
  5. 15. New York, New York!

    7 JUN

    15. New York, New York!

    The New Yorker publishes a 13 thousand word article about the holes in the Lucy Letby case. In episode 15, Michael and Peter discuss various aspects of the article, such as it having been 'geoblocked' in the UK, and whether the UK's contempt laws in relation to reporting restrictions that are designed to prevent upcoming trials being prejudiced are fit for purpose. Aviv's article touches on the infamous roster data table shown to jurors, which your co-hosts discuss in detail.

    57 min
  6. 16. Victorian plumbing, Victorian medical care

    2 JUN

    16. Victorian plumbing, Victorian medical care

    There is much in Rachel Aviv's New Yorker article to digest. In this episode Peter and Michael continue to discuss the piece, specifically what Aviv writes in relation to the 1970s origins of the neonatal unit at The Countess, its poor plumbing, and the cramped conditions that increased likelihood of infection spreading. They also discuss the many many medical issues faced by Baby A and wonder why jurors decided they didn't explain his death.

    55 min
  7. 14. Infighting

    19 MAY

    14. Infighting

    In this episode, Michael and Peter pick up the timeline of key events in June 2016 with the deaths of the two triplets, Babies O and P. Lucy is put on admin duty and submits a grievance against the consultants. The RCPCH and Jane Hawdon are brought in. Lucy wins her grienace and the consultants are threatened with a GMC referral. They fight back, and the police are called in to investigate the high mortality.

    43 min
  8. 13. Chaos

    12 MAY

    13. Chaos

    Peter and Michael go through a timeline of key events from June 2015 to May 2016. Why did lead paediatric consultant Stephen Brearey hone in on Lucy so early on? What was his October email about and who was it to? Then came the damning 'chaos' email from consultant Alison Timmis to hospital management.

    49 min
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About

We Need To Talk About Lucy Letby is a podcast series hosted by statistician Peter Elston and retired doctor Michael McConville. Lucy Letby was a neonatal nurse at The Countess of Chester Hospital in NW England who was convicted in August 2023 of murdering seven babies and attempting to murder a further six on seven occasions, though she was found not guilty on two counts of attempted murder and verdicts could not be reached in another six. In this series, Peter and Michael discuss the many aspects of the case and the steps over more than ten years that led to Lucy ending up in HMP Bronzefield serving 14 full life terms. But could it be the worst miscarriage of justice in British legal history?

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