Content + AI Larry Swanson

Chelsea Larsson



The arrival of generative AI gives content designers a whole new toolkit. As with any new set of gear, there's some learning that comes with the new capabilities that the tools afford.



At Expedia, Chelsea Larsson is leading her team of content designers into the AI design future with fresh takes on the planning, design, and evaluation skills that designers have always relied on.



We talked about:



her work as a senior director of experience design at Expedia

how she is facilitating with her teams the shift from product development design to AI design

how she has identified new capabilities that AI brings and is incorporating them into product road maps

how content strategists and architects help them decide whether to use generative AI or structured-content methods

their shift from front-end content design to working with back-end engineers and architects

how new LLM-driven applications of conventional content-evaluation criteria permit them to scale up their content design work

their goal of creating good-quality content at scale

how content designers are shaping the future of conversational ecosystems

how AI lets content designers do more strategic thinking, in particular about how to apply their insights at scale

her take on the recent rounds of tech layoffs

one of the new roles that are emerging for which content professionals are well-suited, like the new position of model designer

the origins of their AI program in a simple application of gen AI to partner content creation

how to bootstrap the implementation of AI content practices in your org

how to identify opportunities to help your customers by matching their content use cases with your AI capabilities

her message to content designers: "don't be afraid" and keep learning



Chelsea's bio

Chelsea Larsson is a Sr. Director of Experience Design at Expedia Group where she leads the B2B Content Design team, partners on strategic design initiatives, and builds AI travel tools. Chelsea loves to chat about Content Design in genAI and UX design for travel. She shares her thoughts on both topics via the Smallish Book newsletter and conference stages around the world. Her favorite book to gift loved ones is the delightful Chirri and Chirra series. Her favorite sandwich is a turkey club.

Connect with Chelsea online



LinkedIn

Smallish Book



Video

Here’s the video version of our conversation:



https://youtu.be/qKr7o5aKQrM

Podcast intro transcript

This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 27. The arrival of generative AI tools gives content professionals a whole new palette of design capabilities. Learning how to take advantage of these new opportunities so that they can shift from product-development design into content-driven AI experience design challenges many content folks. Chelsea Larsson sees these challenges as a chance for both her and her team at Expedia Group to stretch and grow and to scale their impact as design professionals.

Interview transcript

Larry:

Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 27 of the Content and AI Podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show, Chelsea Larsson. Chelsea is a senior director of experience design at Expedia Group. And welcome Chelsea, tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.



Chelsea:

Thanks for having me, Larry. As you said, I'm a senior director of experience design. I lead the B2B content design team at Expedia Group. So we call that the partner content design team, because we work with Expedia partners. I also lead the Generative AI Experience Design Program, which we'll get into later and lean in on a couple of strategic initiatives at Exped...

Patrick Stafford



Like most tech professionals, content designers are extremely interested in how AI might affect their work and employment prospects in the future.



Patrick Stafford and his colleagues at the UX Content Collective recently conducted research to explore the impact of AI on the future of the profession, as well as the attitudes and opinions of content designers about new AI tools and practices.



We talked about:



his work as the co-founder and CEO of the UX Content Collective

the high-level findings of his recent research on the impacts of AI on content design

the coincidental timing of the release of GPT-3 and the wave of layoffs in content design and other tech professions

his take on the current content design job market, that it's now a more typical market

comparisons of the job market in 2016-18, 2019-21, and and from 2022 through now

the decline in corporate training budgets recently

his take on working "with" AI as well as "for" AI products

the emerging critical role of content designers in ensuring the ethical use of AI

his observation that most of the new AI jobs being created are being staffed from within companies, not by hiring outside talent

the growing importance stated in many job postings of being familiar with AI tools

the main benefit of AI for content designers: the ability to scale

the important role of content designers applying best practices and design sensibility to gen AI output

how the UX Content Collective curriculum has evolved in response to the arrival of AI

the surprising finding in their research that 80% of people either feel the same or more hopeful about the industry after the introduction of LLMs and AI

the upcoming revival of his podcast Writers of Silicon Valley



Patrick's bio

Patrick Stafford is the CEO and cofounder of the UX Writers Collective. He is a former Lead Digital Copywriter for MYOB, the largest accounting software provider in Australia, and has consulted with several businesses on UX content strategy.

Connect with Patrick online



LinkedIn

UX Content Collective

The Future of AI and Content Design research report

Writers of Silicon Valley podcast (reboot coming soon)



Video

Here’s the video version of our conversation:



https://youtu.be/ijMMmsWQZKo



Podcast intro transcript

This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 26. The arrival of GPT-3 and the explosion of interest in generative AI caught many in the content-design profession by surprise. Arriving as it did around the same time that mass layoffs hit the tech industry compounded the anxiety around this new tech. Patrick Stafford and his colleagues at the UX Content Collective recently conducted research to explore the true impact of AI on the profession, as well as the attitudes and opinions of content designers about new AI tools.

Interview transcript

Larry:

Hi everyone. Welcome to episode number 26 of the Content and AI podcast. I'm really happy, today, to welcome to the show, Patrick Stafford. Patrick is the co-founder and CEO at the UX Content Collective, which you hope you've heard of. Anyhow, welcome Patrick. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.



Patrick:

Thanks, Larry. I'm really glad to be talking to you today. It's always a pleasure to speak to you. So yes, as Larry said, I'm the co-founder and CEO of the UX Content Collective. We started in 2019, and we offer a range of courses and workshops related to UX content. So that could be from a broad beginning in UX writing fundamentals to more specialist skills like content ops or even things like systems thinking, which is a workshop we have coming up,

Wouter Sligter



Figuring out how to best adopt new technology is difficult at any time for any organization. AI tech rachets up this challenge to new heights.



Wouter Sligter helps companies understand the capabilities and limitations of LLMs and related technologies to create trustworthy experience-delivery platforms.



Transparency is a key element in implementing solutions that evoke and support the authentic human experiences that underlie these systems.



We talked about:



his background as a UX-focused designer and his shift to conversation and AI design

the growing number of business use cases that his work supports as well as the growing palette of tech tools that he has to work with

how he creates authentic and trustworthy experiences with LLMs and adjacent tech

the benefits of RAG (Retrieval Augmented Generation)

the growing number of platforms that support building AI experiences

the huge failure rate of conversational AI implementations, and how better design might improve the success rate

the importance of being genuinely customer-centric when implementing AI projects

how his background in language and music helps his AI design work, in particular the benefits of "being comfortable with the uncomfortable"

the importance of companies being transparent about their AI implementations

how localization manifests in the AI world

the growing acceptance of chatbots by consumers

his advice to jump into AI now, beginning with due diligence about how you'll implement it in your organization



Wouter's bio

Wouter Sligter is a Senior Conversation Designer and Generative AI Engineer. He has been a committed team lead and has consulted for a large number of Conversational AI implementations, most notably in Finance, Healthcare and Logistics. He has an innovative mindset and a sharp sense for understanding user needs. Wouter always looks to improve the conversational user experience by following iterative design patterns and verifying outcomes through data analysis and user research. Both predictive NLU and generative LLMs and SLMs are part of Wouter's toolkit.



Wouter has a background in ESL and IELTS teaching at language centres and universities in Vietnam. He has developed a strong awareness for language and cultural peculiarities, with native fluency in English and Dutch and good conversational skills in Vietnamese, German, and French.

Connect with Wouter online



LinkedIn

YouandAI.global



Video

Here’s the video version of our conversation:



https://youtu.be/Ak0liSLR8_0



Podcast intro transcript

This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 25. One of main reasons that people have taken so quickly to AI tools like ChatGPT is their conversational nature. People like talking to each other - and to computers. In human conversation, we've developed skills and instincts that help us determine the trustworthiness of the person we're talking with. In tech-driven conversations, we often have reason to mistrust. Wouter Sligter helps companies build conversational systems that express the authentic humanity of their creators.

Interview transcript



Larry:

Hi everyone, welcome to episode number 25 of the Content and AI Podcast. I'm really delighted today to welcome to the show Wouter Sligter. I met him in Utrecht in the Netherlands. He's in the co-working space we both work out of. There, he is a conversational AI consultant. He does conversation design and he's a generative AI engineer. He has his own company called You and AI Welcome, Wouter. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.



Wouter:

Hi Larry. Very good to be here. Thank you for inviting me. What am I up to?

Lasse Rindom



Lasse Rindom both consults with enterprises on AI projects and talks with business and technology experts about their thoughts and discoveries.



In both his consulting practice and his podcast conversations, Lasse has discovered both tremendous opportunities and potentially pitfalls when adopting enterprise-scale AI solutions.



We talked about:



his work as an AI leader at Basico,

the origins of his AI-focused podcast, The Only Constant

the unexpected opportunities that arise from the new ability to work with unstructured content that AI affords

his quest for use cases that will help identify new governance structures and operational frameworks

some examples of AI workflows that enable new business capabilities, like the ability for non-coders to query an agent that can write SQL queries for them

his candor in his consulting practive about the possible pitfalls of AI tech, in particular the consequences of LLM hallucinations

how current LLMs fall short of natural language, acting more like "chaotic code"

the unfortunately common belief that generative AI can be applied

one way that he is addressing the "lying robot" problem: using multiple AI agents to correct each other (instead of fine-tuning the models)

the current strategic AI deficit in the market, resulting in consultants pushing untested engineering solutions

the differences between how enterprises and SMBs consume tech solutions

the importance of holistic thinking and staying focused on core problems as you explore AI solutions



Lasse's bio

Lasse Rindom is AI Lead at Basico and a leading expert on AI and automation. He has previously been global technology manager at facility management giant ISS and CDO of Baker Tilly Denmark.



Lasse is a frequent debater on LinkedIn, a Gartner Peer Community ambassador and is host of the podcast “The Only Constant” in which he has deep discussions with global thought leaders on what AI and technology means for us as humans and as businesses.



Connect with Lasse online



LinkedIn



Video

Here’s the video version of our conversation:



https://youtu.be/_fdAweq3Wuw

Podcast intro transcript

This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 24. I generally focus these interviews on content practices, but I'll zoom out now and then to explore the broader strategy and technology landscape. Today I'm talking with Lasse Rindom, a thoughtful and knowledgeable consultant who works with enterprises on big AI projects. He's also a podcaster who talks with business leaders around the world about AI and tech. In his conversations and consulting work, he has discovered a world of lying robots, chaotic code, and strategic deficits.

Interview transcript

Larry:

Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 24 of the content and AI podcast. I'm really delighted today to welcome to the show, Lasse Rindom. I'll have him pronounce his name correctly in just a minute. I don't speak Danish, apologies. But Lasse is the AI lead at Basico, a Danish consultancy that works with big enterprises in Denmark and other places, I'm assuming as well. But welcome to the show, Lasse, to tell the folks a little bit more about what you're doing there at Basico.



Lasse:

Hi, Larry, and thank you for having me on the show today. I'm really thrilled to be here. So my name is Lasse, Lasse Rindom. That's how you say it in Danish so people could know that. I always say it's okay to say Lasse. Everyone knows that, that's dog.



Lasse:

I am the a AI leader at Basico, which means I'm defining our go-to-market strategy and our products in the AI space, and we focus very much on the back office function. So that's your legal, facility management,

Gerry McGovern



As we navigate our paperless offices and admire our sleek compact computing devices, it can be hard to imagine the impact that our digital experiences are having on our communities and the planet.



Gerry McGovern studies the environmental impact of the digital industry. He has uncovered an alarming story of unsustainable growth, toxic side effects, and human misery, which he shares in his book, World Wide Waste.



We talked about:



how he became an environmental activist focused on the impacts of digital

the phenomenal pace of growth of digital infrastructure

the impact on local communities of the big data centers that house cloud infrastructure

how the compute-intensive nature of AI exacerbates

his observation of the long-standing lack of transparency in the AI industry

the "snake oil sales" aspects of AI

the troubling use of "forever chemicals" by the semiconductor industry

the material impact of computer chip manufacturing

how human over-consumption and the environmental impacts of AI overlap

his advice for actions you can take to mitigate your personal impact:



slow down and use your brain more

think local - local foods, local computer storage, etc.

prefer text over images and other high-bandwidth communications







Gerry's bio

Gerry’s latest book, World Wide Waste, examines the impact data waste and e-waste are having on the environment and what to do about it. Gerry also developed Top Tasks, a research method used by hundreds of organizations to help identify what truly matters.

Connect with Gerry online



Mastodon

LinkedIn

GerryMcGovern.com



Video

Here’s the video version of our conversation:



https://youtu.be/W5-BMTTEUik

Podcast intro transcript

This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 23. It's easy to think of digital media and experiences - including our new AI explorations - as ethereal things that magically traverse the computing cloud to enlighten and entertain us. Gerry McGovern is here to remind you that that's far from the case, that "digital is physical." The data centers that power cloud computing are lapping up water and consuming electricity at an alarming pace, and the arrival of AI is accelerating these troubling patterns of overconsumption.

Interview transcript

Larry:

Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 23 of the Content + AI podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show Gerry McGovern. Gerry is the author of the book The World Wide Waste: How Digital is Killing the Planet and What to Do About It. He's also probably better known ... and I originally met him almost 15, 20 years ago when he was talking about customer care words, and subsequently out of that arose, I think, his work on top task methodology. So anyhow, Gerry's a well-established figure in the discipline, has a lot of important stuff to tell us about the environmental costs of AI. But welcome, Gerry. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.



Gerry:

Thank you, Larry. It's lovely to be speaking to you again. I suppose what I'm up to mainly is ... In a sense, I never thought it would happen, but I've become a type of environmental activist focused on the impacts of digital and how to use digital in a better way, in a less damaging way. I don't think digital can be green in any sense, but I think it can be used to help more our environment and at least to reduce the damage it causes to our environment. So, that's the main stuff I'm focused on.



Larry:

Yeah. Well, I got to say, I love the idea that you're an environmental activist now, because we need plenty of that. But one of the things about your work that I think has r...

Mike Atherton



Mike Atherton is well-known in the content world for his work at institutions like the BBC and Facebook and for his co-authorship of the influential book Designing Connected Content. His latest content project appears at first to be less serious.



Newsbang is a daily AI-produced satirical news show. Its content is based on real historical news but delivered by AI-created stereotypical newscasters. The result is fun, but the process of creating the show has added real-world technical skills to Mike's professional toolkit.



We talked about:



his work as a UX writer and content designer

his experiments with AI tools, including the suite of generative tools he's using to create Newsbang, a completely artificial daily news program

how he accomplished his goal of creating an ensemble sketch comedy vibe

his workflow for the daily production of the "news" show

some of the surprising traits of his news characters that emerged as AI generated them

lessons learned about the cost of producing AI programming, like the costs of prompting

the variety of models he uses to build the show, including open-source models that have more lenient guard rails to permit more edgy comedic content

how he creates his own guardrails to achieve the effect he's looking for in the show while still creating a family-friendly show

how he developed the technical skills it takes to create Newsbang

how his work with Newsbang helps in his day job

his hope that more content professionals will follow him into the AI playground



Mike's bio

Mike Atherton brings years of experience to the UX, IA, and Content Design field, having tackled content challenges at big names like Meta and the BBC. Now, he's focused on developing UX writing systems, exploring the use of AI to do big things with tiny teams.



As well as the day job, Mike is the creative mind behind Newsbang, a daily satirical news podcast that's both written and produced using AI technology.



With Carrie Hane, he also wrote the book ‘Designing Connected Content’, sharing strategies for seamless digital experiences.



Mike lives in the British countryside and loves working from home.

Connect with Mike online



LinkedIn

Newsbang



Video

Here’s the video version of our conversation:



https://youtu.be/lpDa8szujWo

Podcast intro transcript

This is the Content and AI podcast, episode number 22. Most of the news coverage and social-media conversations around AI and content feel urgent and important. This is serious business, but you can have fun with this technology, too. Mike Atherton has done content work at places like the BBC and Facebook, and he still does proper content design in his day job. Newsbang, his daily, AI-produced satirical news show, has given him both an outlet for his inner comedian and a venue in which to hone important new work skills.

Interview transcript

Larry:

Hi, everyone. Welcome to episode number 22 of the Content and AI podcast. I am really delighted today to welcome to the show Mike Atherton. You might know Mike, he's probably best known as the... Well, he's best known for a lot of things, but he's worked at the BBC and a lot of other interesting stuff he's done. He co-wrote the book Designing Connected Content with Carrie Hane, which a lot of people in my world appreciate. But he's now a content designer and creative technologist based in the UK. Welcome, Mike. Tell the folks a little bit more about what you're up to these days.



Mike:

Well, hey, Larry, thanks for having me on. It's great to be back. Yeah, I'm a UX writer and content designer by day. I work with various product teams in different kind of companies to write everything from the micro...