Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine

Innovation in beer has been accelerating for the past decade as breweries—excited by new styles and techniques, and feeding a culture of newness incentivized by social apps—churn out a relentless quantity of new beers in new formats with new labels. However, to hear Bill Cherry tell it, the choices he’s made at Switchback over the past two decades have been driven more by slowness than speed.


Packaging in 22-ounce bombers so they could dial in packaging before moving to more popular formats, or pursuing innovation in smoked beer because demand (and competition) in that niche are small, have afforded the brewery time and space to figure it out and build demand organically, always focusing first on the beer and its quality.


The results have paid off over recent years, with 2022 gold and 2023 bronze medals at the World Beer Cup for Katie’s Love Poem, their grodziskie. But that’s just the kindling, as their broader Flynn on Fire series has seen them tackle and learn from a vast array of different smoked beers. Cherry loves smoked beer because they’re harder to sell to consumers—there isn’t a built-in market for them, so they have to create one, and he loves that challenge as well as the runway for lower-stakes experimentation.


In this episode, he talks through that counterintuitive strategy and how it relates to their approach to innovation, including:



designing Switchback Ale based on pieces of other inspirational beers
growing slowly to make sure beer quality is always top priority
packaging draft only for the first 10 years of the brewery until they could afford a quality bottling line
homing in on smoked because because “nobody likes smoked beers, but they should”
creating the smoke-o-meter scale for conveying smokiness to consumers
step-mashing for flavor, not just attenuation
maintaining a living yeast pitch that’s going on 2,000-plus generations
balancing hop flavor and smoke aroma in smoked IPA


And more.


“if you can get people to drink something that they don’t know they want, that’s true craft,” says Cherry.


This episode is brought to you by:
G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): At G&D Chillers they always strive to Build Great Chillers. Partner with them as you Build Great Beer. Choose G&D Chillers on your next Expansion or Brewery start up and receive 1 free year of Remote control and Monitoring of your new G&D Chiller!
ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) By partnering with ProBrew, brewers can fill and seam their canned product at ranges from 100-600 cans per minute. Our unique filling process also ensures low dissolved oxygen pickup and focuses on product quality during the entire process. Visit probrew.com or email us at contactus@probrew.com.
Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Berry Blend, Blood Orange, Lemonade, and Tart Cherry are the latest additions to our lineup of flavored craft juice concentrate blends. To learn more and request your free samples, head over to oldorchard.com/brewer
Omega Yeast (https://omegayeast.com): Streamline efficiency with Omega Yeast’s Diacetyl Knock Out series. The DKO series is comprised of 8 familiar yeast strains engineered to knock out the formation of diacetyl before it starts. The strains you know, now better. Contact Omega Yeast today at omegayeast.com.
ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com). ABS Commercial are proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and preventative maintenance parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact them today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs.
Yakima Chief Hops Varietees (https://varietees.com). VarieTees Supply Co. offers hop apparel inspired by hop varieties, art, and community. Shop designs from various artists inspired by your favorite varieties including Citra, Simcoe, Sabro, and Mosaic! Shop VarieTees and use promo code CBB20 for 20% off at varietees.co

While popular movies tell finite stories, the real lives of the people they feature don’t stop when the final credits roll. So, it was up to the von Trapp family—whose story was told with huge dramatic license in The Sound of Music—to write their own next chapters. They did so by establishing a popular, Austrian-inspired family lodge in northern Vermont—then, about 15 years ago, they opened a brewery just down the hill.


They launched with the goal of producing finely crafted European-style lagers, befitting the family’s heritage. Craft lagers weren’t exactly lighting up the sales charts at the time, but it was a long-term bet from a family that thinks in generations rather than quarterly returns. Now, with a beautiful automated Rolec brewhouse and an attached beer hall, they’re producing award-winning lagers at scale—including the Oktoberfest that we named one of our Best 18 Beers in 2018—all while making very intentional decisions about process and ingredients.


In this episode, brewing operations director Tom Everett and quality manager Jack Van Pappegem talk through their approach to ingredients and process, including:



avoiding decoction of many pale lagers, despite having an automated and dedicated decoction vessel
finishing pale lagers dry, but not too dry
using small amounts of specialty malts to build character
managing the grain crush
keeping a tight focus on pH
strategies to promote healthy fermentations
selecting yeast for the ideal character
lagering in cylindroconical unitanks
brewing Oktoberfest lager as well as dark lagers


And more.


This episode is brought to you by:
G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): At G&D Chillers they always strive to Build Great Chillers. Partner with them as you Build Great Beer. Choose G&D Chillers on your next Expansion or Brewery start up and receive 1 free year of Remote control and Monitoring of your new G&D Chiller!
ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) By partnering with ProBrew, brewers can fill and seam their canned product at ranges from 100-600 cans per minute. Our unique filling process also ensures low dissolved oxygen pickup and focuses on product quality during the entire process. Visit probrew.com or email us at contactus@probrew.com.
Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Berry Blend, Blood Orange, Lemonade, and Tart Cherry are the latest additions to our lineup of flavored craft juice concentrate blends. To learn more and request your free samples, head over to oldorchard.com/brewer
Omega Yeast (https://omegayeast.com): Streamline efficiency with Omega Yeast’s Diacetyl Knock Out series. The DKO series is comprised of 8 familiar yeast strains engineered to knock out the formation of diacetyl before it starts. The strains you know, now better. Contact Omega Yeast today at omegayeast.com.
ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com). ABS Commercial are proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and preventative maintenance parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact them today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs.
Yakima Chief Hops Varietees (https://varietees.com). VarieTees Supply Co. offers hop apparel inspired by hop varieties, art, and community. Shop designs from various artists inspired by your favorite varieties including Citra, Simcoe, Sabro, and Mosaic! Shop VarieTees and use promo code CBB20 for 20% off at varietees.com.
OPA Design Studio (https://designopa.com): The architects at OPA Design Studio are your partners in developing the unique design you need. With over a decade of experience designing breweries, the folks at OPA are here to serve as your trusted experts from start to finish. Visit designopa.com to set up your no obligation introductory consultation today.
Craft Spirits & Distilling Podcast (https://spiritsanddistilling.com/podcasts/): If you’re a distiller or curious about it, check out

Welcome to Las Vegas, craft brewers! In this final of three CBC preview episodes, Crafthaus head brewer Cameron Fisher joins to discuss their approach to making cold IPA (and more) in the desert of Southern Nevada. Whether it’s Czech-style lager served on a Lukr faucet in their Arts District taproom or a throwback hoppy red ale poured with love from their Henderson taproom at the brewery, the beers Crafthaus makes have earned a reputation for quality, breadth, and accessibility. In this episode, Fisher touches on:



Connecting beers to audiences through familiarity and experience
Using flaked maize and white wheat in cold IPA
Pushing big IBUs in the first wort addition then cool pooling
Layering hop formats with concentrated pellets and T-90’s
Avoiding generic hop flavors by editing down hop blends
Dry hop saturation
Fermenting with characterful lager yeast that leaves more body
Creating coffee beers with different roasters and coffees


And more.


This episode is brought to you by:
G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): At G&D Chillers they always strive to Build Great Chillers. Partner with them as you Build Great Beer. Choose G&D Chillers on your next Expansion or Brewery start up and receive 1 free year of Remote control and Monitoring of your new G&D Chiller!
ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) “ProBrew is changing the game at this year’s CBC in Las Vegas. Visit go.probrew.com/CBC24 or contact us at contactus@probrew.com to schedule time with one of our subject matter experts at Booth #1783 at this year’s show.”
Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Berry Blend, Blood Orange, Lemonade, and Tart Cherry are the latest additions to our lineup of flavored craft juice concentrate blends. To learn more and request your free samples, head over to oldorchard.com/brewer
Omega Yeast (https://omegayeast.com): Streamline efficiency with Omega Yeast’s Diacetyl Knock Out series. The DKO series is comprised of 8 familiar yeast strains engineered to knock out the formation of diacetyl before it starts. The strains you know, now better. Contact Omega Yeast today at omegayeast.com.
ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com). ABS Commercial are proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and preventative maintenance parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact them today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs.
Yakima Chief Hops (https://yakimachief.com). As a global preferred supplier of NZ Hops, Yakima Chief is the source for the pronounced bright and tropical aromas New Zealand hops are known for, adding a rush of exotic fruits and zesty citrus to your recipes. NZ Cryo is now available, learn more at yakimachief.com
OPA Design Studio (https://designopa.com): The architects at OPA Design Studio are your partners in developing the unique design you need. With over a decade of experience designing breweries, the folks at OPA are here to serve as your trusted experts from start to finish. Visit designopa.com to set up your no obligation introductory consultation today.
Craft Spirits & Distilling Podcast (https://spiritsanddistilling.com/podcasts/): If you’re a distiller or curious about it, check out the Craft Spirits & Distilling podcast. Click on the link and subscribe from your favorite podcast platform.
Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast

This special fresh hop–focused episode of the podcast is brought to you interruption-free by the the freshness experts at RipeLocker. RipeLocker has patented a radically innovative storage solution to revolutionize the post-harvest industry with technology to extend the shelf-life of perishables such as fresh hops while preserving quality and taste. The company’s low-pressure chambers prolong freshness after harvest by weeks, often months, and for brewers, this opens up new ways to think about fresh- and wet-hop beers.


This episode focuses on fresh-hop brewing, from harvest through brewing and then marketing them to end consumers. Joining for the conversation are Brendon Anthony, RipeLocker senior director of fruit science, Tyler Sabin, Oasis Farms hops manager, and Bart Gumpert, Coronado Brewing’s R&D and innovation brewer.


There are as many different ways to brew fresh-hop beers as there are brewers doing it, but RipeLocker technology opens up some avenues for thinking about fresh-hop brewing in new and fresh ways. Through this conversation, the panel discusses everything from how the hypobaric chamber works to pick windows for fresh-hop varieties, the variability of rates of aging for different hop varieties, brewers’ favorite fresh-hop varieties and combinations, the hub and spoke distribution strategy, innovative ways brewers are taking advantage of the opportunities that RipeLocker allows, and ways that this technology may impact fresh-hop brewing in the future.


Visit https://ripelocker.com for more information, or visit https://oasisfarmsfreshhops.com to explore the ways you can use fresh hops from Oasis Farms preserved in RipeLocker chambers in your fresh-hop beers this upcoming harvest.


(Sponsored Content)
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Dave Pascual, head brewer for longtime Las Vegas brewery Big Dog’s, takes a methodical approach to running the brewhouse, even if it doesn’t feel out-of-the-ordinary to this longtime brewer. Running a clean and organized brewery is just how it’s done. Despite how obvious some of these little things may appear, it’s the sum of all those professional details that’s helped cement Big Dog’s legacy as a consistent award winner in categories as diverse as English-Style Brown Ale and Belgian-Style Tripel.


In this episode, Pascual discusses his approach to creating recipes and brewing award-winning beers, including:



brewing light lager with two-row instead of pilsner
tasting and comparing, consistently
dialing in hops in very light lagers
building a full-spectrum malt bill for brown ale
achieving pleasant fermentation notes in Belgian-style beers
changing medal-winning recipes
wood-aging barleywine
building a team that consistently focuses on excellence


And more.


This episode is brought to you by:
G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): At G&D Chillers they always strive to Build Great Chillers. Partner with them as you Build Great Beer. Choose G&D Chillers on your next Expansion or Brewery start up and receive 1 free year of Remote control and Monitoring of your new G&D Chiller!
ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) “ProBrew is changing the game at this year’s CBC in Las Vegas. Visit go.probrew.com/CBC24 or contact us at contactus@probrew.com to schedule time with one of our subject matter experts at Booth #1783 at this year’s show.”
Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Berry Blend, Blood Orange, Lemonade, and Tart Cherry are the latest additions to our lineup of flavored craft juice concentrate blends. To learn more and request your free samples, head over to oldorchard.com/brewer
Omega Yeast (https://omegayeast.com): Streamline efficiency with Omega Yeast’s Diacetyl Knock Out series. The DKO series is comprised of 8 familiar yeast strains engineered to knock out the formation of diacetyl before it starts. The strains you know, now better. Contact Omega Yeast today at omegayeast.com.
ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com). ABS Commercial are proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and preventative maintenance parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact them today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs.
Yakima Chief Hops (https://yakimachief.com). As a global preferred supplier of NZ Hops, Yakima Chief is the source for the pronounced bright and tropical aromas New Zealand hops are known for, adding a rush of exotic fruits and zesty citrus to your recipes. NZ Cryo is now available, learn more at yakimachief.com
OPA Design Studio (https://designopa.com): The architects at OPA Design Studio are your partners in developing the unique design you need. With over a decade of experience designing breweries, the folks at OPA are here to serve as your trusted experts from start to finish. Visit designopa.com to set up your no obligation introductory consultation today.
Craft Spirits & Distilling Podcast (https://spiritsanddistilling.com/podcasts/): If you’re a distiller or curious about it, check out the Craft Spirits & Distilling podcast. Click on the link and subscribe from your favorite podcast platform.
Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast

In this first of a three-episode miniseries on Las Vegas brewers, timed to give you more local knowledge as you head to the desert for this year’s Craft Brewer’s Conference, Able Baker Director of Brewing Matt Marino discusses his evolving approach to modern West coast IPA and hazy session IPA. Through the conversation, he touches on:



brewing oversized batches at high gravity to maximize output from their 15bbl brewhouse
pushing extreme attenuation to hit a 1.4-1.6°P finishing gravity in a 7% ABV IPA
making the move from 2 row malt to pilsner malt
selecting hops and hop formats for survivability and efficiency
fermenting with non-diacetyl-producing yeast
recirculating while dry hopping to maximize extraction in West coast IPA
the constant evolution of recipes for the brewery’s most popular brands
blending to create new beers
the best beer-related (and non-beer-related) things to do while visiting Las Vegas


And more.


This episode is brought to you by:
G&D Chillers (https://gdchillers.com): At G&D Chillers they always strive to Build Great Chillers. Partner with them as you Build Great Beer. Choose G&D Chillers on your next Expansion or Brewery start up and receive 1 free year of Remote control and Monitoring of your new G&D Chiller!
ProBrew (https://www.probrew.com) “ProBrew is changing the game at this year’s CBC in Las Vegas. Visit go.probrew.com/CBC24 or contact us at contactus@probrew.com to schedule time with one of our subject matter experts at Booth #1783 at this year’s show.”
Old Orchard (https://www.oldorchard.com/brewer): Berry Blend, Blood Orange, Lemonade, and Tart Cherry are the latest additions to our lineup of flavored craft juice concentrate blends. To learn more and request your free samples, head over to oldorchard.com/brewer
Omega Yeast (https://omegayeast.com): Streamline efficiency with Omega Yeast’s Diacetyl Knock Out series. The DKO series is comprised of 8 familiar yeast strains engineered to knock out the formation of diacetyl before it starts. The strains you know, now better. Contact Omega Yeast today at omegayeast.com.
ABS Commercial (https://abs-commercial.com). ABS Commercial are proud to offer brewhouses, tanks, keg washers, and preventative maintenance parts to brewers across the country as well as equipment for distilling, cider-making, wine-making, and more! Contact them today at sales@abs-commercial.com to discuss your customized brewery needs.
Yakima Chief Hops (https://yakimachief.com). As a global preferred supplier of NZ Hops, Yakima Chief is the source for the pronounced bright and tropical aromas New Zealand hops are known for, adding a rush of exotic fruits and zesty citrus to your recipes. NZ Cryo is now available, learn more at yakimachief.com
OPA Design Studio (https://designopa.com): The architects at OPA Design Studio are your partners in developing the unique design you need. With over a decade of experience designing breweries, the folks at OPA are here to serve as your trusted experts from start to finish. Visit designopa.com to set up your no obligation introductory consultation today.
Craft Spirits & Distilling Podcast (https://spiritsanddistilling.com/podcasts/): If you’re a distiller or curious about it, check out the Craft Spirits & Distilling podcast. Click on the link and subscribe from your favorite podcast platform.
Support Craft Beer & Brewing Magazine Podcast