Nerd Journey: Career Advice for the Technology Professional John White | Nick Korte

When a people leader is laid off, they have a choice – stop everything, or continue to lead, even as you exit. Marni Coffey continued to model strong character and supportive leadership for her team until the end of her last day with PepsiCo. This is the mark of a great leader…a leader whose greatest skill is empathy.

After taking time to recharge and reset, Marni needed some help to move forward. This week in episode 280 Marni Coffey will share how she processed the layoff event’s impact on her and the former members of he team, the support she received during her job search, reflections on stress, and the series of good conversations that led her to McKesson.

Original Recording Date: 05-19-2024

Marni Coffey is the Senior Manager for Business Systems and Indirect Sourcing and Procurement at McKesson. If you missed our previous discussions with Marni, check out part 1 in Episode 278 and part 2 in Episode 279.

Topics – A Forced Job Search, Addressing the Layoff in Interviews, Noticing Stress

3:14 – A Forced Job Search



* When asked about joining McKesson, Marni tells us it’s about the way things “just happened” to get her there.



* “I knew who I was. At Pepsi, I finally knew who I was in that people manager role. I knew what was important to me, what I wanted to do. And I knew I wanted to elevate people. That’s what I wanted to do. I wanted to make them successful and get them where they were going. I wanted to be the one to work on that employee experience and navigate across a global company to get those things done for our employees, not just my employees…all of the employees…I want them all to have a good experience. And I know that sounds like some utopian wish, but that’s what I mean by continuous improvement. You’re never there. You just keep doing the next thing to make it better for them.” – Marni Coffey

* Marni knew what she wanted when working for PepsiCo. But the company went through a global transformation, and Marni was laid off. Her husband, who also worked at PepsiCo, was laid off as well.



* When Nick heard about what was happening at PepsiCo, he reached out to Marni to see if she was impacted. It turned out Marni was impacted, and her plan was to take the severance package and figure out her next move.

* “I had not been hunting for a job in so long I didn’t even know where to start…. I had really thought I was going to retire with Pepsi, so I thought I was just done with this job hunting stuff.” – Marni Coffey

* Marni mentioned Nick and others helped her get her resume into a format accepted today. She also took time to update her LinkedIn profile. Once both were updated, Marni began her job search.





* Marni took every interview she was able to get and went in with the mindset that many were just practice. Taking this approach made her feel more relaxed.



* For some companies, Marni knew after the first interview it was not the right place for her. If Marni was not passionate about what the company did or didn’t like the culture, it wasn’t a company for her.

* The style of an interview can turn off potential candidates. Marni shares the story of an interview style that made her not want to continue with the process.



* “It was unpleasant. They didn’t take the time to find out who I am and what I’m looking for, which I think is an important part of interviewing. You need to know who you’re interviewing. Are they a motivational fit for you? …Are they going to be happy with you? Are they going to fit in with you? Are you going to be happy with them?

Why is moving from individual contributor to technical lead or team lead such a hard leap? For Marni Coffey, it was about learning to develop the people around her. Developing others is something Marni chose to do as a team lead, and as a people leader she continues to do it. In Episode 279, you will hear how Marni approached the first set of one-on-one career conversations with members of her team after joining McKesson. We will also discuss change management and considerations for doing it within global organizations. Should good managers be doing a form of change management for the careers of their employees? See if you can formulate your own answer after listening to the episode.

Original Recording Date: 05-19-2024

Marni Coffey is the Senior Manager for Business Systems and Indirect Sourcing and Procurement at McKesson. If you missed part 1 of our discussion with Marni, check out Episode 278.

Topics – The Technical Lead as a People Developer, Change Management, Improving Employee Experience and Career Development

3:21 – The Technical Lead as a People Developer



* Marni mentioned being a technical lead. What should someone expect if they are an individual contributor seeking to take on a technical lead (or tech lead) role?



* “It’s a leap. Moving from individual contributor to technical lead is the hardest leap, the hardest leap I ever took.” – Marni Coffey

* As an individual contributor, Marni would learn how to do things and not stop until they are complete, delivering excellent solutions to internal customers and stakeholders.

* “Becoming a lead…you now have a team, and they all have individual tasks that they are going to contribute to. And you will have some of your own tasks, but mostly, you’re kind of going around and making sure everybody can do what they do…. You are supposed to enable them to do the job…. You don’t just take the task and do it. And too many technical leads do it…. That is not what the people on your team want you to do. They don’t want you to take their tasks. You may think that you’re doing them a favor. You are not. You should be developing them.” – Marni Coffey, on the role of the technical lead

* Others on a team may not be able to perform tasks as quickly as the technical lead, and the technical lead should understand this.



* The tech lead can peer review a team member’s work and provide feedback and coaching on how to make it better without doing the task for the team member.

* If a team member needs help, help them. Help does not mean taking the task and doing it yourself!

* The technical lead’s job is to develop the people on the team and ensure they can complete their work.





* Deadlines are also an important consideration in all of this because they must be met.



* Marni tells us sometimes people are working in the wrong role. Maybe a person is working in the data layer and needs to be working in the presentation layer.

* The tech lead needs to understand when people are in the wrong role and help get them in the right role. Someone on the team may be struggling or not enjoying the work they are doing, for example.





* “As a technical lead that was the hardest thing. The hardest thing is not doing it for them. It is teaching them to do it.” – Marni Coffey





* Does the technical lead essentially manage the team’s task workload to ensure deadlines are hit?



* Marni says yes, but the job of the technical lead (or team lead), it’s your responsibility to go and speak with stakeholders.

* If you are someone who is afraid to talk to other people who may be leaders within your company,

If asked about your greatest skill, how would you answer? Could you even answer the question? Our guest this week was asked to name her greatest skill in a job interview, and the answer is one of the most important skills of effective people managers.

Marni Coffey is a Senior Manager for Business Systems and Indirect Sourcing and Procurement at McKesson, and her greatest skill is empathy. In episode 278 Marni will share her early career as a web developer, why she didn’t like being a consultant, thoughts on creating an inclusive team culture, and the importance of connecting with the company where she works.

Original Recording Date: 05-19-2024

Topics – Meet Marni Coffey, Building Websites and an Internship, The Glamour of Consulting, Part of Something, Uncovering Empathy as a Skill, Relocation and Connecting with a Company

2:18 – Meet Marni Coffey



* Marni Coffey is the Senior Manager for Business Systems and Indirect Sourcing and Procurement at McKesson.



* McKesson is a healthcare company. They do pharmaceutical distribution, medical supplies and equipment, etc. Before Marni started working for McKesson she didn’t quite realize how much McKesson does.

* Nick remembers ordering from McKesson years ago when he worked at Wal-Mart Pharmacy.

* John mentioned McKesson is the brand of tissues he sees at his physician’s office.

* During the time Marni has been at McKesson she has been able to learn about all the things McKesson does. Marni has been able to hear stories of patients impacted by the work McKesson does, feeling it is inspiring to work for the company.







4:20 – Building Websites and an Internship



* Marni originally thought she was going to be a high school English teacher. After working as a substitute teacher at a private school while still in college, Marni realized teaching was not for her. This prompted a change of major to focus on Management Information Services or MIS (sometimes called Management Information Systems).



* Marni loved building websites and wanted to do something like it.

* While still working toward the English degree, Marni had taken on a project to bring a Chicano literature site into copyright compliance. She also took a job in the computer lab at her college to support an online class at one point.

* Marni considered majoring in computer science, but she felt there was too much mathematics required for it. That prompted the selection of MIS as her major.





* Marni’s interest in building websites came from deciding to build a Wonder Woman fan site, and she really enjoyed the process of building.



* She was also working for the school newspaper, and some of it was done online. Marni enjoyed the writing process and thought it would be fun to build her own website where she could do the same thing on her own. That site was never finished.

* As Marni built websites, she enjoyed playing around with all kinds of functionalities like theming. Then she learned about databases to have data-driven sites and loved that too.



* “And I just immediately turned into this giant programming nerd…. Most of what I learned I learned from just digging in and learning because by the time you get through your classes, what you learned there is already obsolete. It’s moving fast.” – Marni Coffey









* Marni had an internship with Logix Communications through her college focused on solving real-world problems like building an intranet site for Logix employees. She and one of her classmates were chosen to participate.



* Upon bringing some problems and situations from the internship back to her classes, no one seemed to be able to help Marni.

* Marni and her classmate were offered jobs with Logix in Oklahom...

Have you checked out the Packet Pushers Job Board? According to trends Ethan Banks of Packet Pushers is seeing, companies need experienced senior technical people who are comfortable working with a complex IT stack. If you are one of those people, you are in demand, even during times of industry layoffs.

It’s challenging for the business owner to continue doing the work they love because administrative tasks can get in the way. Ethan Banks, co-founder of Packet Pushers Podcast Network and our guest this week in Episode 277, has arranged his company so he can focus on the work he is uniquely suited to deliver – creating content. Ethan will share thoughts on industry talent shortages and how his role as a business owner has changed since we last spoke with him.

Original Recording Date: 04-19-2024

Ethan Banks is a network engineer, business owner, and one of the founders of Packet Pushers. If you missed part 1 of this discussion, check out Episode 276.

Topics – A Network Effect and the Need for Senior Personnel, The Changing Nature of Ethan’s Role as a Business Owner, Appreciating What’s Now

A Returning Guest



* It’s been 5 years since we shared Ethan’s career story on the show. You can find our earlier discussions here:



* Episode 42 – Ethan Banks and the Journey to Career Self-Awareness

* Episode 43 – Ethan Banks on Podcasting and Turning a Hobby into the Packet Pushers







2:58 – A Network Effect and the Need for Senior Personnel



* John asks Ethan what it has been like to create a business that has a network effect as opposed to a broadcast business.



* Ethan says the jobs board will work best once there are thousands of listings. But there are some challenges to this because it’s new, much like starting a new podcast or any new endeavor. It takes time to grow.

* The Packet Pushers team has started by letting people know the jobs board exists by listing it on their websites, using ads within existing shows, and putting it in their newsletter.

* “But over time it’s going to grow. We’re already seeing evidence of that. It’s not even been 6 months yet, and we’re already seeing substantial growth and some interesting jobs being listed.” – Ethan Banks





* What kind of gaps does Ethan see as a result of layoffs in our industry?



* “I can tell you this. Looking at the kinds of jobs we’re seeing listed on the job board, companies need seniors. Companies need people that have experience. Companies need people that have a lot of skills. Those are tough positions to fill.” – Ethan Banks

* For those with 10 or more years of experience and expert / professional level certifications who are used to working with a complex technology stack…



* “Companies are looking for you. You are hard to come by. You are rare and increasingly rare as the IT tech stack continues to grow in complexity.” – Ethan Banks, a message to senior technology professionals





* Many highly skilled former network practitioners have gone on to and work for technology vendors (like Cisco and Juniper to give a couple of examples). That takes them “off the board” as a practitioner.



* This trend can keep companies short staffed with network engineers, including consulting firms.

We often talk about lifecycle management in technology, but every job and personal or professional project has a lifecycle that needs managing from beginning to end. When we start a job or a career, we don’t know when the end of that lifecycle will come.

This week in episode 276 we’re joined by Packet Pushers co-founder Ethan Banks. As we talk through the lifecycle and evolution of podcasts on the Packet Pushers Podcast Network, we relate that to technology projects and personal experiences. Ethan will also share details on the new Packet Pushers Job Board and how it can be a helpful resource that pairs up the job seeker with companies needing specific technical talent.

Original Recording Date: 04-19-2024

Topics – Ethan Banks Returns, Pandemic Impact on Packet Pushers, Staying Broad and Going Deep, Longevity and the Lifecycle of Everything, The Packet Pushers Job Board

2:35 – Ethan Banks Returns



* Ethan Banks is a network engineer, business owner, and one of the founders of Packet Pushers. It’s been 5 years since we shared Ethan’s career story on the show. You can find our earlier discussions here:



* Episode 42 – Ethan Banks and the Journey to Career Self-Awareness

* Episode 43 – Ethan Banks on Podcasting and Turning a Hobby into the Packet Pushers







3:25 – Pandemic Impact on Packet Pushers



* In the past couple of years, John’s podcast listening has been pretty sparse. But how has Packet Pushers changed before and after the pandemic?



* The business model at Packet Pushers is monetization through sponsorships. Packet Pushers creates and provides podcasts for technical people, and often times technology vendors will want to sponsor a discussion or an ad to air on one of the shows on Packet Pushers.

* During the pandemic, technology vendors could not longer attend Cisco Live or VMware Explore because these kinds of events were cancelled, removing a major marketing channel for vendors. Packet Pushers became one of the outlets used for marketing during this time, and there was an influx of incoming sponsorships for probably a solid 2 years.



* “We went through a two-and-a-half year period of just absolute insanity trying to keep up with demand.” – Ethan Banks, on the influx of Packet Pushers sponsors during the pandemic

* As the pandemic died down, Packet Pushers went back to a more normal state, acting as one of many different marketing channels a technology vendor might use.





* As a result of this, Ethan and team realized there wasn’t enough inventory (in terms of different podcasts airing) on Packet Pushers Network.



* For example, if a podcast releases weekly, that is one show released per week that could be sponsored (i.e. one episode per week considered inventory).

* Some shows were being booked for sponsorship weeks, months, and close to years in advance during the pandemic. It did not make sense to increase the release cadence of any existing show, so they worked to add new shows to provide more sponsorship opportunities.

* “We’ve been trying to grow by adding more shows to the network so that there is availability for sponsors that want to work with us.” – Ethan Banks









* Did the flood of potential sponsors change the vetting process for sponsors in any way?



* Ethan says the vetting process for sponsors has been pretty standard since the very beginning.

What if deep down you are afraid of achieving a goal? Could the fear of success be the very thing that motivates you to abandon your goal? What could you be getting by not finishing?

With the finish line in sight, perfectionism throws up its final roadblocks. To reach the end, we must address the fears of what’s next, what now, and the fear of things not being perfect once we achieve the goal. We can also architect a work environment and choose a data collection method to support positive progress based on previous successes and failures.

In episode 275, we’re joined by guest host Jason Gass to discuss the following chapters from Finish by Jon Acuff and provide some final thoughts as this series comes to a close:



* Chapter 7: Use Data to Celebrate Your Imperfect Progress

* Chapter 8: The Day before Done



Original Recording Date: 04-07-2024

Topics – A Book Discussion Series, How You Work Best and Some is Better than Perfect, Chapter 8: The Day before Done, Final Thoughts

A Book Discussion Series



* This is part 3 of a book discussion series centered on Finish: Give Yourself the Gift of Done by Jon Acuff.



* If you missed part 1 of our discussion, check out Episode 272.In that first episode we discussed the following topics:



* Reasons Jason Gass (our special guest host in this series) recommended the book

* Chapter 1 – The Day after Perfect

* Chapter 2 – Cut Your Goal in Half





* If you missed part 2 of our discussion, check out Episode 273. In that second episode in the series we discussed:



* Chapter 3 – Choose What to Bomb

* Chapter 4 – Make It Fun if You Want It Done

* Chapter 5 – Leave Your Hiding Places and Ignore Noble Obstacles





* If you missed part 3 of our discussion, check out Episode 274. In that third episode in the series we discussed:



* Chapter 6 – Get Rid of Your Secret Rules

* Chapter 7 – Use Data to Celebrate Your Imperfect Progress











3:34 – How You Work Best and Some is Better than Perfect



* The next section discussed the idea of learning how you work best. John says this is more of a focused example of answering questions about the last time you tried a goal and whether you were successful or not.



* Acuff gives the example of people working well on planes. It may not be that for all of us. What specifically about the environment of being on a plane led to success? We can brainstorm on that for a second.



* Maybe it was the set start and end time, a poor internet connection, white noise, ease of focusing on work instead of socialization, etc.





* For Nick it was helpful to work at a Starbucks. What was it about the coffee shop that led to more progress toward a goal than perhaps working at home did?



* Maybe it was the ground coffee smell, the white noise of background chatter, no television in walking distance to act as a distraction, the unlikelihood of running into someone Nick knows, working from a single screen, etc.

* Maybe Nick could re-create part of that environment from Starbucks at home or when working from somewhere else (the sounds, the smells,