Refuse Fascism Refuse Fascism

This week Mark Tinkleman guest hosts the pod, covering SCOTUS decisions on the abortion medication mifepristone as well as gun control, Trump’s support from powerful people, the Southern Baptist Convention's attack on IVF, and a listener’s feedback.

Then Sam welcomes researcher Teddy Wilson back on to discuss how the MAGA movement is weaving Trump's conviction and Jan. 6 into a lore of violence and victimization. They discuss the historical similarities between the events surrounding Jan. 6th and other episodes of political violence in American history and understanding the roots of the US fascist movement.

Follow Teddy's Substack, Radical Reports and listen to his new podcast “Insurrectionist Cookbook."



Find out more about Refuse Fascism and get involved at RefuseFascism.org. We're still on Twitter (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RefuseFascism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and other social platforms including Threads, Mastodon and Bluesky. Plus, Sam is on TikTok, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@samgoldmanrf⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠



Mentioned In This Episode:

There’s a Time Bomb Hidden In the Supreme Court’s Abortion Pills Decision by Madiba Dennie on Balls and StrikesThe Right’s Politics of Revenge by Thomas Zimmer



Related Interviews:

Teddy Wilson on the Metastasizing Fascist Base

Teddy Wilson: Fascist Violence Accelerated

The Convicted Felon & “Day One” Dictator

Ian Millhiser on Trump’s Trials + Paul Street on Jan 6 Anniversary


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Sam interviews filmmaker Stephen Ujlaki about his latest film Bad Faith: Christian Nationalism's Unholy War on Democracy. This feature-length documentary is available for streaming on Apple TV+, Amazon Prime, Google Play & YouTube. See trailer here. For information about the film, including a listing of screenings & how to organize a screening in your community visit badfaithdocumentary.com.

From the Variety review of the film:

"The Christian Nationalist movement was the driving force behind the January 6 insurrection, and what we saw there was a preview of their ideals and methods: a frothing hostility toward the U.S. government, coupled with the willingness to use violence. Russell Moore, the editor
of Christianity Today, talks about how the new wave of Christianity is “a church growth movement, but for angry people. A sense of theatrical anger feels, to some, like depth of conviction.” Yet even on Jan. 6, these “rebels,” participating in their own form of action-movie cosplay, were, like Trump himself, at least somewhat constrained. What “Bad Faith” captures is that Christian Nationalists now have the potential to be the shock troops in a second and far more threatening Trump presidency."

Plus, Sam discusses the increasingly dire situation for women across the country where abortion has been banned, the latest developments for immigrants, the perfidious US-Israeli war crime that just killed 200 Palestinian civilians, and more.



Find out more about Refuse Fascism and get involved at RefuseFascism.org. We're still on Twitter (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RefuseFascism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and other social platforms including Threads, Mastodon and Bluesky. Plus, Sam is on TikTok, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@samgoldmanrf⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Music for this episode: Penny the Snitc

Sam discusses the historic guilty verdict that was just rendered by a jury against Trump this past week (34 felonies for falsifying business records to cover up hush money payments to Stormy Daniels, all for the purposes of ensuring his illegitimate election in 2016), along with the slew of unhinged fascist threats and rants that have come in the aftermath of the verdict.

Then, as this guilty verdict has in no way stopped his campaign for power again, she talks with two contributors to the June issue of The New Republic titled What American Fascism Would Look Like. Emmanuel Guerisoli discusses his essay The “Day One” Dictatorship (co-authored by Federico Finchelstein). Emmanuel is postdoctoral fellow at the Zolberg Institute on Migration and Mobility at the New School. He can be followed at @emmaGuerisoli.

Then, Francisco Goldman discusses his essay From Texas to Massachusetts: On the border in a fascist America. Francisco is a novelist and journalist. His most recent novel is Monkey Boy, a Pulitzer Prize finalist. He can be followed on ex-Twitter at @PacoGoldman or on Instagram @franciscogoldman.



Mentioned in this episode:

Escalator Redux by Jeff Sharlet (Scenes From a Slow Civil War)

The United States Looks Like a Sick Joke, The Paul Street Report

Trump’s Online MAGA Army Calls Guilty Verdict a Declaration of War by Tess Owen for Wired

Right-Wingers Are Already Promising Vengeance After The Trump Verdict by Matt Shuham and Christopher Mathias for HuffPost

“Make Them Pay”—The Far Right Responds to Trump’s Conviction By Kiera Butler for Mother Jones



Find out more about Refuse Fascism and get involved at RefuseFascism.org. We're still on Twitter (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RefuseFascism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and other social platforms including Threads, Mastodon and Bluesky. Plus, Sam is on TikTok, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@samgoldmanrf⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

You can also send  your comments to samanthagoldman@refusefascism.org or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@SamBGoldman⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Record ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠a voice message for the show here. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Connect with the movement at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠RefuseFascism.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and support:

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Sam interviews historian Dr. Jefferson Cowie, author of Freedom’s Dominion: A Saga of White Resistance to Federal Power (winner of the 2023 Pulitzer Prize). Jeff serves as the James G. Stahlman Chair in the Department of History at Vanderbilt University. He was recently honored with a 2024 Guggenheim Fellowship - in part, in anticipation of his upcoming project, tentatively titled Crosswinds of a Common History. You can find more of Jeff's writing including information on his other three books here. 



Find out more about Refuse Fascism and get involved at RefuseFascism.org. We're still on Twitter (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RefuseFascism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and other social platforms including Threads, Mastodon and Bluesky. Plus, Sam is on TikTok, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@samgoldmanrf⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

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Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠



Mentioned in the episode:

The ‘Unified Reich’ Scandal is a Feature Not a Bug of Trump's Brand of American Fascism by Annika Brockschmidt for Religion Dispatches

Refuse Fascism episode 181: The Evangelical Prophets Anointing Trump with Matthew D. Taylor 

Straight White American Jesus Special Episode: Justice Alito Let's His Appeal to Heaven Flag Fly

The Supreme Court's new voting rights decision is a love letter to gerrymandering by Ian Millhiser for Vox

Refuse Fascism episode 197: Choices: A Post-Roe Abortion Rights Manifesto

Fascism in America? (Part 1 of a deep dive into the "fascism debate") by Thomas Zimmer

The Anti-Liberal Left Has a Fascism Problem (Part 2 of a deep dive into the "fascism debate") by Thomas Zimmer


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This week Sam Goldman (@SamBGoldman) and Coco Das (@Coco_Das)  have a wide ranging conversation with Dr. Clarence Lusane and Sunsara Taylor over what it will take to stop fascism in the United States.  We discuss the 2024 elections in the context of the prospect of civil war, the genocide in Gaza and the uprising to stop it, the threat of today's wars spiraling out of control, the nature of the fascist threat, and the possibility of wrenching a better future out of this moment.

Dr. Clarence Lusane is a political science professor and interim political science department chair at Howard University, and independent expert to the European Commission Against Racism and Intolerance. HIs latest book is Twenty Dollars and Change: Harriet Tubman and the Ongoing Fight for Racial Justice and Democracy. Read more from Dr. Lusane here

Sunsara Taylor (@SunsaraTaylor) is the co-host of the RNL (Revolution Nothing Less) Show on YouTube. She helped initiate Refuse Fascism in the aftermath of the election of Trump. Sunsara led tens of thousands into the streets against the overturn of Roe v Wade w/ RiseUp4AbortionRights.



Find out more about Refuse Fascism and get involved at RefuseFascism.org. We're still on Twitter (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RefuseFascism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and other social platforms including Threads, Mastodon and Bluesky. Plus, Sam is on TikTok, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@samgoldmanrf⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

You can also send  your comments to samanthagoldman@refusefascism.org or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@SamBGoldman⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Record ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠a voice message for the show here. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Connect with the movement at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠RefuseFascism.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and support:

· ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠paypal.me/refusefascism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

· ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠donate.refusefascism.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

· ⁠⁠⁠⁠http://patreon.com/RefuseFascism⁠⁠⁠⁠

· Venmo: Refuse-Fascism

· Cashapp: $RefuseFascism

Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠



Related Episodes: 

The Cataclysm of a Second Trump Term

Sunsara Taylor: Forced Motherhood = Female Enslavement

This American Fascism: A Retrospective


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Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/refuse-fascism/message

Sam discusses the events of this past week including Trump's trials (including what's getting prosecuted and what's being postponed indefinitely), the escalating genocide in Gaza as the Israeli military started to invade Rafah and the ongoing bravery of students across the country who continue to demand an end to this genocide.

Then, we share an interview with acclaimed historian and returning guest Dr. Federico Finchelstein to discuss his latest book The Wannabe Fascists: A Guide to Understanding the Greatest Threat to Democracy. Dr. Finchelstein serves as Professor of History at the New School for Social Research and Eugene Lang College in New York City. He is also the author of From Fascism to Populism in History (published 2017/2019)  A Brief History of Fascist Lies, (published in 2020) and Fascist Mythologies The History and Politics of Unreason in Borges, Freud, and Schmitt (published in 2022). Follow him on Twitter at @FinchelsteinF.

Find out more about Refuse Fascism and get involved at RefuseFascism.org. We're still on Twitter (⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@RefuseFascism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠) and other social platforms including Threads, Mastodon and Bluesky. Plus, Sam is on TikTok, check out ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@samgoldmanrf⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

You can also send  your comments to samanthagoldman@refusefascism.org or ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠@SamBGoldman⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Record ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠a voice message for the show here. ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Connect with the movement at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠RefuseFascism.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and support:

· ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠paypal.me/refusefascism⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

· ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠donate.refusefascism.org⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

· ⁠⁠⁠http://patreon.com/RefuseFascism⁠⁠⁠

· Venmo: Refuse-Fascism

· Cashapp: $RefuseFascism

Music for this episode: Penny the Snitch by Ikebe Shakedown⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠



Mentioned in this Episode:

U of C student interviewed by FOX 32 from the frontlines about what the student movement is fighting for.



Related Episodes:

Fascist Lies with Federico Finchelstein

Federico Finchelstein: "White Replacement Theory" & Fascism 


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Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/refuse-fascism/message