Without Works Amity Armstrong and Lemuel Gonzalez

Show Notes
Lemuel: I am Lemuel Gonzalez, repentant sinner, and along with Amity Armstrong, your heavenly host, I invite you to find a place in the pew for today’s painless Sunday School lesson. Without Works.

Amity: The amount of research that goes into each show makes it difficult to release episodes in a timely manner. By the time that we gather enough information for an informed opinion on a subject, it has been replaced with another fresh assault on the public accountability of faith. We are experimenting with a new idea: a single subject to discussion, each of us sharing our opinions.

This week it will be Not Necessarily the Good News, and our discussion will be on the recent changes in the Methodist Church.

Not Necessarily the Good News.

Amity: The Methodist Church, the communion founded in the late eighteenth century by brothers John and Charles Wesley, has recently followed the example of the Episcopal, Presbyterian and Lutheran Churches and ended bans on gay clergy, and same sex marriage.

The current United Methodist Church was created in 1968 by joining two associated branches with roots in Wesley’s teachings, the Methodist Church and the Evangelical United Brethren Union together to a 12.5 million strong communion worldwide.

Outside of sharing the basic tenants of the faith, the methodist Church has three principles, which we could sum up this way:

Do no Harm.
Do good, of every possible sort.
Engage in daily, rigorous spiritual practice, like reading the scriptures, and prayer.

Based on these foundational principles the Methodist Church faced conflicts with conservative spiritual forces, most notably the Anglican Church. The Methodists followed the example of John Wesley who in 1774 published a sermon on the evils of slavery. By 1780 Methodist pastors were compelled to deliver anti-slavery sermons, and by 1785 any member who had purchased a slave, except with the express purpose of setting that person free, was expelled from the Methodist fellowship.

This caused a rift with slave state Methodists who wanted to hold on to what they considered property. A similar rift has been caused by the acceptance of gay clergy and gay equality in marriage. Language adopted by the United Methodist Church in 1972 condemned its gay members, declaring the gay lifestyle incompatible with Christian teaching, and banning gay members from ordination while extending to them the love of Christ. The United Methodist Church, in its recent conference, reversed the language and the decision, but that has lead to many churches to disaffiliate.

DISCUSSION:
With over seven thousand of the thirty thousand Methodist Churches committed to disaffiliating, will the Methodist Union survive?

The inclusion and reconciliation with gay members consistent with the principles of founders John and Charles Wesley. Is there any grounds for churches separating for the communion?

Amity: That brings us to the end of this week’s episode. If you like it, please subscribe and leave us a review - and share it with a friend.

Lemuel: We have an internet home: withoutworkspodcast.com. Our show notes and links to stories we talk about can be found there.

Amity: All of our social links are on the website so if you want to reach out go there for all that information.

I’ve been Amity and he’s been Lemuel, and we urge you to go out and do something good.

Episode Notes
Lemuel: I am Lemuel Gonzalez, repentant sinner, and along with Amity Armstrong, your heavenly host, I invite you to find a place in the pew for today’s painless Sunday School lesson. Without Works.

Amity: Today we will have an open discussion on the controversies around a recent film, “The Book of Clarence,”  a recent comedy about fictional characters who live in Jerusalem at the time of Christ, and interact with Jesus and his disciples. 

Lemuel: The stories’ protagonist is a feckless young man played by LaKeith Stanfeild. Accompanied by his best friend Elijah, played by RJ Cyler, the two travel a picaresque route through Jerusalem, meeting the disciples, the Holy parents, John the Baptist, Mary Magdalene, and Jesus himself. 

Amity: The questions we will be asking are these:

How does the film address the story?  

Is the film sacrilegious or misrepresent the Bible story?

Is it ever appropriate to make fun of sacred topics?

Why the controversy? Is it because of the light tone taken to sacred subjects, or is it because the film represents nearly all of the biblical characters as African?

Show Notes
Lemuel: I am Lemuel Gonzalez, repentant sinner, and along with Amity Armstrong, your heavenly host, I invite you to find a place in the pew for today’s painless Sunday School lesson. Without Works.

Amity: Today we will look at the new speaker of the house and his opinions in Not Necessarily the Good News and Lemuel will look into the woman who started it all in Pillars of Wisdom.
Necessarily the Good News 

Amity: Current speaker of the House , Republican Mike Johnson expressed his point of view this way: 

“I am a bible believing christian. Someone asked me today, in the media, they said, ‘It’s curious, people are curious. What does Mike Johnson think about any issue under the sun?’ I said, ‘Well, go pick up a Bible off your shelf, and read it. That’s my worldview.’”

This is problematic for many reasons. There are many biblical translations, accepted by many parts of the church.  Speaker Johnson is a Protestant, and beyond that a Baptist. There are 57 Baptists currently serving in the House of Representatives, the second largest Christian denomination represented, the largest being the Catholic Church, with 122 members.

When a speaker says that the Bible is his opinion, what does it mean, and why is it important to us?

SUMMATION: In the end I would say this: When Pilate asked Jesus if he was a king, Jesus responded: “My kingdom is not of this world … “ The separation of Church and state is a construct instituted by Jesus Christ. Maybe Speaker Johnson’s bible doesn't include this verse. 
Amity:  And now, in honor of the season, we try to understand a little more about the woman central to the Christian Church. 

Pillars of Wisdom: 
Amity: “At the center of this mystery, in the midst of this wonderment of faith, stands Mary. As the loving mother of the redeemer, she was the first to experience it. ‘To the wonderment of nature you bore your Creator." -Pope John Paul the Second, Redemptoris Mater

Lemuel:  She is designated with the title Theokotos in the Eastern Christian Church: the God - bearer. The Immaculate Conception in the Roman Church where she is also referred to as the Queen of Heaven, Our Lady, and Star of the Sea.

There are few more important persons in the Christian world than Mary. For a person who changed the world we don’t know very much about her. She was betrothed to Joseph, a carpenter, perhaps a good deal older than her and may have even been a widower with other children from his first marriage. We know that she had a maternal aunt, Elizabeth, a devout, much older woman who also brought a miraculous child into the world. 

Mary received a visitation; she was informed that she, among all the women of the world, was chosen to bring God into the world, if she chose to receive it. With her consent, she brings this child into the world. 
The rest of that story becomes her son’s story; his mission, and sacrifice, but she remains in the background. She urges him to spare a newly married couple the embarrassment of running out of wine at their wedding feast.  She was present at the crucifixion; Jesus tells her that John, the youngest disciple, was to act as her son. 

The years after this, she drops away from focus. She begins reappearing in illustrations in catacombs at the beginning of the second century. She is given some of the titles mentioned earlier. Some of the titles were borrowed from earlier Goddesses, and some of the depictions as well. A woman with a baby, a woman weeping for her murdered son. 

There are no canonical stories about her after she is a part of the miraculous gathering on the day of Pentecost, but that story implies that she was a leader in the early church. Her death is never described, but her Assumption, (her body being taken intact into heaven) is a doctrine in much of the high church. 

Ancient peoples come to us as ciphers, and most of the biblical people we meet are shadowy figures with unexplained motives. We don

Show Notes
Lemuel: I am Lemuel Gonzalez, repentant sinner, and along with Amity Armstrong, your heavenly host, I invite you to find a place in the pew for today’s painless Sunday School lesson. Without Works.

This week, we are going to discuss the events occurring in the Gaza strip, the history of the region, and the evangelical view of the situation. This is being recorded on October 28, 2023 and we are doing our best to give the latest information.

Amity: I have tried to keep this as straightforward and clear as possible. I am extremely emotional about this topic and have spent much of the past twenty days watching the news coming directly out of Palestine, sharing Palestinian voices and calling my representatives to demand a ceasefire and humanitarian aid to the people of Palestine. 
First things first - we have to state unequivocally the following:


Zionism is not Judaism, and a person can be anti-Zionist and not anti-semetic, as many, many American jews are. We will come back to this in a few minutes.
The attack on Israel on October 7, 2023 is abhorrent and terrible and we grieve with the survivors and families of those who were killed. May their memories be a blessing. 

Events leading up to October 7

Let’s start with some history, which I have put together from several sources. This is a very broad, very simplified overview of the history. In the show notes, we have included an extensive reading list to get a rounder view of the subject. 
Israel and Palestine: In the late 19th century, the Zionist movement called for the creation of a homeland for the Jewish people to escape persecution in Europe. Immigration and the purchase of land in Palestine, then part of the Ottoman Empire, was encouraged. The land known as Palestine at the beginning of the 20th century encompasses a 25,000 square mile piece of land bordered on the west by the Mediterranean Sea, on the East by what is now Syria and Jordan on the south by Egypt and on the north by Lebanon.

After the First World War and the collapse of the Ottoman Empire, Britain was granted a mandate to govern the region of Palestine and Jewish immigration increased as Nazism took hold in central Europe. This brought tensions in the area with the Arab population, and after the Second World War a new plan was drawn up and agreed by the United Nations to create two separate Arab and Jewish states with Jerusalem remaining international.

The Arab state would include Gaza, an area near the border with Egypt, a zone near the border with Lebanon, a central region which includes the West Bank, and a tiny enclave at the city of Jaffa.But this was never implemented after Arab opposition.
At midnight on 14/15 May 1948, the Mandate for Palestine expired and the State of Israel came into being. The Palestine Government formally ceased to exist, the status of British forces still in the process of withdrawal from Haifa changed to occupiers of foreign territory, the Palestine Police Force formally stood down and was disbanded, with the remaining personnel evacuated alongside British military forces, the British blockade of Palestine was lifted, and all those who had been Palestinian citizens ceased to be British protected persons, with Mandatory Palestine passports no longer giving British protection.

Over the next few days, approximately 700 Lebanese, 1,876 Syrian, 4,000 Iraqi, and 2,800 Egyptian troops crossed over the borders into Palestine, starting the 1948 Arab–Israeli War. The war, which was to last until 1949, would see Israel expand to encompass about 78% of the territory of the former British Mandate, with Transjordan seizing and subsequently annexing the West Bank and the Kingdom of Egypt seizing the Gaza Strip.

The 1948 Palestinian expulsion and flight, known to Palestineans as the Nakba took place both before and after the end of the Mandate.

The foundational events of the Nakba took place during and shortly after the 1948 Palestine war, as that 78% of Mandatory

Show Notes
Your Own Personal Jesus

1.Was Jesus a pacifist?
Jesus taught non-violence. That’s what we have been told. Is it true?
You have heard that it was said, "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth." But I say to you, Do not resist the one who is evil. But if anyone slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if anyone would sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. Give to the one who begs from you, and do not refuse the one who would borrow from you.
Matthew 5:38–42

This is what comes to mind when discussing Jesus’ response to violence. It was an example mentioned in both the Gospels of Matthew and Luke, in contexts that suggest that he mentioned in on two separate occasions. That would make it a teaching he meant to reinforce through repetition. What does it mean?

These teachings had a profound effect on Christian thinking over the centuries. Think about the break with the Mosaic law that Jesus’ words created, the teaching that reinforced the Lex Talionis.
Christian Anarchy is political-religious movement. It teaches, among other things, that any earthy government is inherently evil. It teaches that the principles of Jesus’ teaching demand a rejection of hierarchical power structures used by the organized church, and state. One of the most vocal and popular of it’s proponents was author Leo Tolstoy, who described the mainstream church and state, and its contrast with Christian Anarchy:

“That this social order with its pauperism, famines, prisons, gallows, armies, and wars is necessary to society; that still greater disaster would ensue if this organization were destroyed; all this is said only by those who profit by this organization, while those who suffer from it – and they are ten times as numerous – think and say quite the contrary.”

Tolstoy’s book, “The Kingdom of God is Within You,” (1894) taught that the proper way to interpret Jesus’ statement, “turn the other cheek,” was as a call to non-violent resistance. This interpretation has had lasting effects. Tolstoy’s correspondence with a young Mohandas Gandhi, and the absorption of those teachings by American civil rights leaders like Dr. Martin Luther King bore this idea out.

This seems to be the best way to interpret Jesus’ teaching, but is the idea of turning the other cheek situational? In other words, is there a time that reacting without violence is counterproductive?

Here is an example of Jesus’ teachings shifting over the span of his brief period on earth. Earlier in his ministry he sends his disciples out to evangelize alone, to tell neighboring villages about the good news.

Do not get any gold or silver or copper to take with you in your belts— no bag for the journey or extra shirt or sandals or a staff, for the worker is worth his keep. **
Matthew 10: 9-10**

Shortly before his death and glorification, Jesus reminds his disciples of the time that he spent apart from them.

Then Jesus asked them, “When I sent you without purse, bag or sandals, did you lack anything?”
He said to them, “But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don’t have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
Luke 22:35-36

It seems that Jesus is telling his disciples to be prepared if they must defend themselves. Maybe he meant that there is no glory in being victimized.

Here is example of Jesus personally behaving in a way that could be considered violent:

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

“Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the gr

Show Notes
**Not Necessarily the Good News **

On June 8, 2023, Televangelist, three times decorated veteran, political consultant, media mogul, presidential hopeful, philanthropist, founder of Regent University and the Christian Broadcast network died in his home at the age of 93. 

He had a few close calls in the closing years of his life. He had taken a bad fall from a horse in 2017,  suffered an embolic stroke in 2018, and suffered another fall in 2019 in which he broke three ribs. Despite all this, he continued mostly regular appearances on his syndicated television program, The 700 club, which he had hosted since it began in 1961. 

The 700 Club was the first television program of his Christian Broadcasting Network, which went from a local Virginia Beach station to a cable network in 1977, and eventually to The Family Channel, which remained on the airwaves until 1997.

Robertson was affiliated with the Southern Baptist fellowship, 

Welton Gaddy: Interfaith Alliance’s former longtime-president, Rev. Dr. C. Welton Gaddy, has died at the age of 81. Welton was a beloved leader, and an inspiration to everyone who cherishes both religious freedom and democracy. Welton’s journey took him from being a rising leader in the Southern Baptist Convention to one of the most respected voices seeking to ensure the first amendment’s promise extends to all Americans regardless of faith or belief. It does not go without notice that we are remembering Welton just as the LGBTQ+ community is celebrating Pride Month. Welton wrote about full inclusion and dignity for LGBTQ+ people long before many other religious leaders. Across so many areas, Welton used his platform to project a vision for America that was inclusive of different beliefs and respectful of every individual’s inherent dignity. He was unwilling to accept that any religious tradition in this country should take precedence over another. Over the course of seventeen years, starting in 1997, Welton led Interfaith Alliance and established it as one of the leading advocates for religious freedom. Under Welton’s leadership, “interfaith work” was not about a bunch of people from different faiths coming together just for the sake of optics. It was about building relationships between communities so that together we could have an impact on the critical issues facing our nation. Among Interfaith Alliance’s many accomplishments under Welton’s leadership were his incisive paper making a case for marriage equality from a faith perspective; his passionate advocacy challenging antisemitism, anti-Muslim bigotry and other forms of hate targeting religious minorities; and the protection of the vital boundaries between religion and government as he pushed successive administrations from both parties to avoid unnecessary entanglements. Rev. Gaddy increasingly focused his ministry on the relationship between faith and public life. He joined the board of Americans United for Separation of Church and State and served as its president before leaving to lead Interfaith Alliance in 1997. There are few people that have made such a lasting impact on America, and I continue to be in awe and so thankful for Welton’s life in the ministry

In 1991, he became senior pastor at Northminster, a church affiliated with the progressive Alliance of Baptists, which now proclaims to people visiting its website that “every part of you is welcome here — your gender, your race, your politics, your theology, your sexuality.”

https://interfaithalliance.org/interfaith-alliance-mourns-the-passing-of-rev-dr-c-welton-gaddy/
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John%204&version=NIV
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/16/us/the-rev-c-welton-gaddy-dead.html
https://youtu.be/IBysfGR90us

The More You Know

There are many ideas about heaven in the Old and New testaments.  Like Christian ideas about Hell, they have developed over time. In many cases it is ambiguous, in others it is very detailed