CELab: The Customer Education Lab

CELab
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CELab: The Customer Education Lab Podcast

CELab is the Customer Education Lab for Innovative Customer Success, Enablement, and Marketing Teams. Our mission is to explore how to build Customer Education programs, experiment with new approaches, and exterminate the myths and bad advice that stop growth dead in its tracks.

  1. 19 SEPT

    CELab - Ep 140 - Dan Ennis - Bridging the Gap - Collaboration Between Digital Customer Success and Customer Education

    Adam Avramescu and Dan Ennis discuss the evolving field of digital customer success, emphasizing its focus on leveraging digital-led programs to improve customer outcomes, retention, and growth. Dan highlights the importance of proactive and reactive digital programs, such as email and in-app series, to engage customers at scale. He stresses the need for clear definitions and metrics, including leading indicators like adoption and performance metrics like open and click-through rates. Collaboration between digital customer success and customer education teams is crucial, with regular feedback loops ensuring alignment on customer outcomes. Adam Avramescu and Dan Ennis discuss the role of digital customer success in improving customer outcomes, emphasizing the use of proactive and reactive digital-led programs like email and in-app messaging to engage customers at scale. Ennis highlights the importance of measuring success through leading indicators such as adoption rates and performance metrics like open and click-through rates, stressing the need for continuous iteration. The conversation also explores the collaboration between digital customer success and customer education teams, with regular feedback loops ensuring alignment on goals and customer outcomes. Ennis invites listeners to connect on LinkedIn, encouraging collaboration in the digital customer success space.

    47 min

  2. 5 SEPT

    CELab - Ep 139 - Melissa Kruminas @ Docebo - Building Value-Led / Product-Supported Customer Education

    In the evolving world of business, customer education plays a crucial role in driving success. Yet, creating impactful, scalable programs can be challenging. Traditional methods often fall short, requiring innovative approaches to enablement and education. We’re joined by Melissa Kruminas, a global enablement leader, now at Docebo, where she focuses on customer education that connects business outcomes with learning. Join us as we explore Melissa's approach to value-led, product-supported education, and how she’s driving initiatives in community learning and customer success. Summary: Melissa emphasizes that customer education goes beyond teaching product features; it's about helping customers realize the full value of their investment. She discusses her focus on scalable learning through experiential events, certifications, and knowledge management. Melissa highlights the importance of balancing creativity with efficiency in customer education, drawing parallels to delivering a five-star meal versus providing quick, actionable resources. She shares insights on building communities, capturing institutional knowledge, and scaling learning solutions. Ultimately, Melissa's work centers around helping customers achieve long-term success by aligning education with their business goals, while fostering a culture of collaboration and continuous learning.

    51 min

  3. 22 AUG

    CELab - Ep 138 - Michele Wiedemer - The Learner-Centered Design Model - Part 2

    In business, the need for engaging learning experiences is staggeringly important. Yet the “how” is elusive.  Conventional educational approaches don’t work well.  You can be tempted to fall back on trusted methodologies only to find them to be too slow, unwieldy, or frustrating. We’re joined by Michele Wiedemer, Customer Education consultant and expert who’s hard at work to learn more and to expand her already impactful approach to learning in B2B SaaS.   Join us as we dive into the Learner-Centered Design approach that she and many of us leverage to build amazing content! Summary for Part 2 Michele Wiedemer discusses Michael Allen's framework for designing effective online learning experiences, which involves providing context, challenges, and activities to help learners solve problems and receive feedback. Wiedemer and Derington explore the idea of creating engaging, subscription-based learning content, similar to how people learn from video game tutorials and explanations. Wiedemer recommends several books and resources for customer education professionals, including "Non-Designers Design Book" by Robin Williams and Michael Allen's work on effective learning components. Derington praises Wiedemer's research program and encourages the audience to follow her on LinkedIn, emphasizing the importance of putting oneself in the learner's shoes. Overall, the discussion focuses on strategies for creating learner-centered, engaging, and effective customer education programs in rapidly changing business environments.

    49 min

  4. 8 AUG

    Ep 137 – Michele Wiedemer - The Learner-Centered Design Model - Part 1

    In business, the need for engaging learning experiences is staggeringly important. Yet the “how” is elusive.  Conventional educational approaches don’t work well.  You can be tempted to fall back on trusted methodologies only to find them to be too slow, unwieldy, or frustrating. We’re joined by Michele Wiedemer, Customer Education consultant and expert who’s hard at work to learn more and to expand her already impactful approach to learning in B2B SaaS.   Join us as we dive into the Learner-Centered Design approach that she and many of us leverage to build amazing content! Summary for Part 1 Dave Derington and Michele Wiedemer discuss their backgrounds in computers, education, and learning technologies.  The importance of focusing on learning rather than just teaching, citing Malcolm Knowles quote about the need for lifelong learning. Michele’s experience and research interests around adult learning in a rapidly changing world, including the diffusion of innovations theory. Challenges of creating effective customer education programs in fast-paced business environments,  The importance of a learner-centered mindset, viewing learning experiences as valuable products, and gathering input from various stakeholders to inform the design. Strategies for creating structured content and onboarding programs, including topic-based authoring and repurposing existing materials. Tips on improving writing quality through editing, peer feedback, and testing with learners, as well as setting realistic expectations for program development. They discuss the use of visual design principles, templates, and AI tools to enhance the creation of engaging e-learning content. Books Cited in this Episode: Non-Designers Design - Robin Williams Michael Allen’s Guide to E-Learning Geoffrey Moore - crossing the chasm Malcolm Knowles - Self-Directed Learning

    53 min

  5. 25 JUL

    Ep 136 - Mini - Who's Going To Arrest Me When I Get My Certification Program Wrong?

    Certification - it's a challenging and sometimes contentious topic for Customer Education professionals. At CELab, we hear this question come up quite a lot. Chances are good that you may be asked to create a certification, or decide that you want to offer one. So how do you get started? Should you even be trying to build such a program? In this "mini" episode, Adam Avramescu answers that question down including: Setting up certification programs, legal basis, and terminology Certification programs for complex software jobs Validity and fairness in certification exams Creating certification programs without high stakes Certification program legal risks and best practices We've covered this topic a number of times here at CELab, so make sure you check out the following episodes: Episode 22 – The Myths and Misconceptions of Certification – Part 1 Episode 23 – The Myths and Misconceptions of Certification – Part 2 Episode 62 – Debbie Smith – Certification for SaaS Businesses In addition, we recommend bookmarking and reading Debbie Smith's article (found on LinkedIn) called "The 13 Principals for Certification". Essential reading for anyone working towards developing their own certification! Disclaimer: We are not giving legal advice in this episode. Make sure you consult with your company's legal team to understand their risk posture - especially if you're going to develop a legally defensible high-stakes cert.

    24 min

  6. 11 JUL

    Ep 135 - Lila Meyer - From Vanity Metrics to ROI: How Gainsight is Connecting Education to Business Impact

    Customer Education is evolving rapidly. We've come a long way from the days of "smile sheets" and attendance metrics being our guide to success. Gainsight, is one such innovative business that's showing how education data and usage data connect so we can measure its impact on business outcomes. Lila Meyer shares her journey at Gainsight, from early roles when the organization was new to her current position leading the Education Services team. We cover a lot of ground including the importance of developing transferable skills and collaboration within the customer education community. Key points: Traditionally, customer education programs focused on vanity metrics like course completion rates. Gainsight is now connecting education data (LMS) with user data (telemetry) and customer data (CRM) to demonstrate the ROI of education programs. This allows them to see how training impacts product usage, retention, and customer health. This data is valuable for internal teams like sales and customer success, who can use it to demonstrate the value of education services to clients. This approach represents a significant shift in the way customer education is measured and valued within organizations.

    1h 3m

  7. 27 JUN

    Ep 134 - Geoffrey Moore - Crossing the Chasm with Customer Education

    As technology evolves at lightning speed, how can we keep up with educating our customers? We pose this question to the legendary Geoffrey A. Moore, author of the iconic book "Crossing the Chasm". Geoff argues that while technology outpaces traditional education methods, the core customer problems remain the same. In this episode we'll discuss Geoff's perspective for understanding different customer segments and adapting education approaches. We'll also get his take on balancing product knowledge with true customer empathy. "Education starts with the student, not with the teacher. You're trying to change the behavior of the student, not trying to execute your own agenda." Geoffrey Moore - 8:45 And what about AI? Will it be our savior or our downfall in education? Stick around for the whole discussion - you don't want to miss his sage advice on connecting educators with executives to maximize impact. Make sure check out Geoff's books including Crossing the Chasm and Zone to Win.

    32 min

  8. 14 JUN

    Episode 133 - Zoe Ludwig on Driving Brand Advocacy and Product Led Growth through Education

    How do you get from 6th grade science to a role leading Customer Education at Notion? It's a great story that's behind the evolution of customer education at Notion, where our guest - Zoe Ludwig - focused on bridging the gap between product adoption and user success. From emphasizing the importance of understanding the audience's needs - to codifying knowledge to create a single source of truth for users check out this episode with so many topics including: Transitioning from teaching to customer education leader at Notion. Customer education strategies for a consumer-grade product. Product education and user adoption strategies for a digital note-taking tool. Using education content to drive marketing goals Infusing education with storytelling and brand elements to make Notion content engaging Creating high-quality content for Notion, including visuals, guidelines, and community partnership for new feature launches Leveraging user-generated content in Notion's education programs Using education to drive product usage and measuring ROI through experimentation Product education and experimentation with different content formats Using AI for content development, including generating bullet points, expanding on ideas, and rewriting in a specific tone. Using Notion for content development workflows. Here's a link to the Education Template mentioned in the episode!

    1h 1m
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CELab is the Customer Education Lab for Innovative Customer Success, Enablement, and Marketing Teams. Our mission is to explore how to build Customer Education programs, experiment with new approaches, and exterminate the myths and bad advice that stop growth dead in its tracks.

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