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I first came across the work of Laura Waterman while conducting research on the origins of the Appalachian Trail. As many of our listeners are surely aware by now, I completed a thru-hike of the Appalachian Trail in 2022, and am currently working on a 10-episode documentary radio series about the AT’s history and cultural influence in partnership with New Hampshire Public Radio. I was seeking information about the history of trail building in the Northeastern US, where the first modern long distance hiking trails were born, and I found everything that I was looking for in “Forest and Crag” by Laura and Guy Waterman.
“Forest and Crag” is a comprehensive history of Mountain climbing in the Northeast - it is dense with information, but with a writing style that is accessible and compelling. Despite being first published over 35 years ago, it remains the best resource on this topic by a long shot. I was looking for someone to interview for my podcast series, so I also conducted research on the authors of this book - Laura and Guy Waterman. What I found was a story even more fascinating than the history of trail building laid out in “Forest and Crag”.
I began reading Laura Waterman’s first memoir, “Losing the Garden”, and the story of Laura and Guy’s truly unique life together began to unfold in front of me. While the two of them were writing “Forest and Crag”, they were living in a rural Vermont homestead in a cabin they built themselves with no electricity or plumbing. They lived like they were in the 19th century for almost 30 years, until Guy’s depression intensified, and he decided to take his own life in the year 2000.
But this wasn’t a typical suicide. Guy drew Laura into the planning of this effort to take his own life, and Laura, seeing no other option, went along with Guy’s plan. Guy ultimately chose to die by exposing himself to the elements on a winter hike of the Franconia Ridge - the site of the iconic New Hampshire ridge-line trail that Laura and Guy had maintained for almost 20 years.
Laura published her first memoir “Losing the Garden” in 2005, but felt that she had left unanswered questions about her decision to go along with her husband’s plan to commit suicide. Her second memoir, published just a few months ago, “Calling Wild Places Home”, seeks to answer these questions, adding depth to the story of Laura’s truly unique life. Now 84 years old, Laura shares her reflections on the past, on aging, and the evolution of her writing style. It was truly and honor for me to have the opportunity to speak with Laura Waterman, and I hope that you enjoy the conversation as much as I did!
-Matt Podolsky


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Imagine descending into the abyss, leaving behind the sunlit waters and plunging into the dark, mysterious depths of the ocean. Here, sunlight fades away, and the pressure increases with every meter. This is the realm of the deep sea, an environment so extreme and alien that it's often compared to outer space.
Under the weight of that much water and so far from the surface, you might envision the truest definition of darkness. But what if I told you there was an abundance of light just at the edge of darkness. Light that we are just beginning to understand.

Dr. Edith Widder has dedicated her career to exploring these under-explored depths. She was one of the first scientists to capture the mesmerizing phenomenon of bioluminescence in its natural habitat. Bioluminescence is the emission of light by living organisms, a survival mechanism in the pitch-black ocean depths. It creates an otherworldly spectacle where creatures use light to communicate, hunt, and evade predators.

From the hypnotic glow of jellyfish to the pulsing firework displays of deep-sea fish, bioluminescence transforms the dark ocean into a place of living light. Dr. Widder’s groundbreaking work not only showcases the beauty of these glowing organisms but also helps us understand the vital ecological roles they play.
Join us as we journey with Dr. Edith Widder to uncover the secrets of the deep sea. Discover how these extraordinary light displays serve as both a beacon and a camouflage in the vast, dark expanse of the ocean. She shares her incredible experiences and insights into one of the most captivating phenomena of the natural world.

Dr. Widder
ORCA


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In my echo chamber, gender, race, nationality, and gender are intersections that are spoken about and how they relate to environmentalism (still nowhere near frequently enough), yet one that was completely absent until recently was disability. I only truly became aware of this when I saw an article pop up featuring my guest on next week’s episode, who had gone to COP26 to ensure the voices of those living with disabilities were involved in climate discussions. Umesh Balal Magar is a young Nepalese disability and climate campaigner who, when he’s not working on improving climate related-water issues in Nepal, is fighting for more inclusive and equitable climate discussions and legislation.
Artwork by Jasmine Hortop
His story is so powerful and I wanted to use this platform to share it, to do something to amplify Umesh’s important messages and calls to action, as well as those of others working within this space.
When I started researching this topic, I instantly became aware of a word that I hadn’t encountered before - eco-ableism. This is described by Friends of the Earth Scotland as, ‘‘a failure by non-disabled environmental activists to recognize that many of the climate actions they’re promoting make life difficult for disabled people’. They also listed examples, such as:
- banning plastic straws without accepting that some disabled people need them to drink safely and conveniently
- removing disabled parking bays to make way for cycle lanes
- promoting active travel without realising that some disabled people cannot walk, wheel or cycle.
These are very much local examples of eco-ableism within the UK and most probably many other countries too, but the reality is that it is very much a global issue.
Something that Umesh raised during our episode, which horrified me, was that disabled people are currently completely left out of plans for disaster response, such as during evacuations. Umesh and his community are fighting for legislative change that will ensure that this does not continue, but progress is frustratingly slow and time is not on humanity’s side when it comes to climate change.
Here’s a few resources that go into more detail about eco-ableism, as well as a written interview with Umesh.
Friends of the Earth Scotland - Eco Ableism and the Climate Movement
Disability Rights UK - Climate change
Curious Earth - What is Eco-ableism and how can we counter it?
British Council - Discussing inclusive climate action with Umesh Balal Magar


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I first came across Erin’s work at Terra Incognita Media a few years ago when I was doing research on National Parks and the influence of John Muir. I was on a learning journey that would lead me to a series of revelations about the history of environmentalism and the generational harm caused by John Muir and his ideas.
I had recently interviewed Mark David Spence, the author of “Dispossessing the Wilderness”, for an episode of Earth to Humans. Spence’s book exposes the deeply racist origins of the National Park system, as well as the role played by John Muir in advocating for the forced removal of indigenous people from what would become Yosemite National Park. After speaking with Mark and reading his book, my perspective on National Parks, and protected landscapes in general, made a dramatic shift. I was beginning to understand that these treasured “wilderness” landscapes were a fabrication of white supremacy. The land that makes up these protected parks was inhabited by Indigenous people, as it had been for thousands of years previous, and the establishment of National Parks provided the US government with a convenient excuse to forcibly remove these people from their homelands. These new National Parks were specifically designed, developed and established for wealthy, white visitors.
During the lead up to Yosemite receiving “protected” park status, there was a vigorous debate within the budding conservation community in California over whether the Indigenous community that called the Yosemite Valley home should be allowed to stay. John Muir was quite vocal in his opposition to allowing these Indigenous people to remain in the newly created park. He used his skill as a writer to bring others over to his side, and his success set a precedent for land protection that is maintained to this day. Indigenous people all around the globe have been, and continue to be, forcibly removed from their homelands in the name of conservation and land protection, as documented by journalist Mark Dowie in his book, “Conservation Refugees” (check out our interview with Mark Dowie here)
Erin’s article about John Muir referred to him as, “a toxic masculine, egocentric, eco-jock” and encouraged her readers to share posts tagged #FuckYouJohnMuir. I was eager for this message, and began to dig back through many of Erin’s previous posts on Terra Incognita’s website. What I found was an open dialogue about Erin’s path towards becoming a advocate for an anti-racist, anti-capitalist brand of environmentalism. Her willingness to talk about the missteps and mistakes that she made along the way made her perspective all the more appealing to me. I was on a similar learning journey, making my own embarrassing mistakes, and the insight provided by Erin’s writing was extremely helpful to me.
I hope that you gain the same level of insight and inspiration from Erin’s work as I have! I’m incredibly excited to share this interview with all of you!
-Matt Podolsky



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I’m super excited to bring you this bonus episode of the podcast! We’re still a few months away from launching our new season of Earth to Humans - that will happen in April for Earth Week - but I wanted to feature this conservation with the director of our latest Wild Lens Collective co-production, Children of the Wolves.



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As 2023 comes to a close, our Earth to Humans team took a look back at some of the episodes that were the most meaningful to us.
We closed out our end-of-the-year roundtable conversation with a discussion about COP28. All of us agreed that just about everything that we’ve been hearing coming out of the COP thus far has been deeply disheartening - we struggled to find any kind of positive message. This is the balancing act that we play here on Earth to Humans on a regular basis - we yearn to tell hopeful stories, but refuse to peddle false hope. The situations surrounding COP28 and our continued struggle to make progress on climate is the reality that we live in, and we’ll continue to seek out stories that highlight this struggle.
This is the final episode of this season of Earth to Humans. We’ll be back with new episodes in mid April of 2024 - just in time for Earth Day.



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