The Church Lobby Karl Vaters

A conversation with Matt Steen about the potential dangers of replatforming fallen pastors too quickly.
This is the first of three First Reaction episodes in which I talk to people who read advance copies of De-sizing the Church to get their response to some of the issues I raise in it.
As the co-founder of Chemistry Staffing, which helps churches find great staff members, and staff members find awesome churches, Matt has a unique insight about the right time to replatform pastors after they’ve failed morally.
Matt and I also address the issues of Platform Addiction, the effect on victims when we replatform fallen pastors too quickly (or at all), and the important idea that restoring someone back into ministry doesn't always mean getting them back on a platform again.
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Fame and celebrity have many downsides. But Daniel Darling brings a balanced approach to this subject by reminding us that fame is also what allows a good message to get through the clutter.
In this episode, Karl talks with Dan about a Twitter thread Dan wrote expressing appreciation for the fame of Tim Keller.
It was Tim Keller's platform and the celebrity status it gave him that allowed Dan and so many others to be introduced to Keller’s teachings. Dan’s perspective on the value of having a platform is an important balance to our conversations about the dangers of celebrity.
Dan Darling is the director of The Land Center, a columnist for WORLD and an opinion contributor for USA Today.

Links:

Daniel Darling Tweet from May 20, 2023

DanielDarling.com

Daniel Darling's newsletter

Daniel Darling books


Karl's new book, De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next, is now available wherever you buy books, either electronically or in print. If you’ve read the book and you’d like Karl to speak to your group about the issues he raises in it, reach out at KarlVaters.com/Contact Me.
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What happens when a pastor sets out, not to minister to people who look like him, but to purposely reach people who look as different from his current congregation as possible?
That’s what Dave Gibbons, the founding pastor of Newsong Church in Orange County, CA did. In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with him about the planting of Newsong, the challenges Dave faced when he decided to guide them to look more like the diverse county they were ministering in.
Dave talks honestly and vulnerably about how the Holy Spirit challenged him to reach out to the misfits and the marginalized. This challenged him and the church in huge ways, including a massive drop in attendance that he had to find his way through emotionally, financially, and spiritually.
 
Karl's new book, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next is now available wherever you buy books, either electronically or in print. If you’ve read the book and you’d like Karl to speak to your group about the issues he raises in it, reach out at KarlVaters.com/contactme.
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Meritocracy has become embedded in the American church. In this conversation, Karl Vaters talks with Scot McKnight about why this is dangerous, how to notice the warning signs of a toxic church culture, the problems with being or following a narcissistic leader, and more.
Scot McKnight is the co-author (with Laura Barringer) of A Church Called Tov: Forming a Goodness Culture That Resists Abuses of Power and Promotes Healing.

Karl's new book, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next is now available wherever you buy books, either electronically or in print. If you’ve read the book and you’d like Karl to speak to your group about the issues he raises in it, reach out at KarlVaters.com/contactme.
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Karl Vaters interviews Bob Smietana, a columnist for Religion News Service, and the author of Reorganized Religion: The Reshaping of the American Church and Why it Matters.
Bob and Karl discuss some of unintended consequences of the Church Growth Movement from Bob's unique vantage point. They also delve into the dangers of bigness and what we can do about it.
Then they discuss Smietana’s fascinating article, “There’s a Reason Every Hit Worship Song Sounds the Same,” and what it says about the current church culture.

Links

Reorganized Religion: The Reshaping of the American Church and Why it Matters

Religion News Service

There’s a Reason Every Hit Worship Song Sounds the Same


Karl's new book, De-Sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next is now available wherever you buy books, either electronically or in print. If you’ve read the book and you’d like me to speak to your group about the issues I raise in it, reach out to me at KarlVaters.com/contactme.
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If small church pastors have a modern patron saint, Eugene Peterson might be it.
In this episode, Karl Vaters talks with Peterson’s biographer, Winn Collier about the places where Winn’s book, A Burning in My Bones: The Authorized Biography of Eugene H. Peterson, Translator of The Message, overlaps with Karl's book, De-sizing the Church.
They talk about how Winn was entrusted to write Peterson’s authorized bio, why people (especially pastors) are still so fascinated by Peterson’s writings, his life, and the way he pastored. Then they narrow in on how Peterson accurately, but fairly critiqued the church growth movement and our obsession with bigness.
Finally, they address several parts of Peterson’s life and ministry that didn’t fit into De-sizing the Church, including:

How Peterson’s life connected with people even deeper than his writings did

The importance of pastoral presence

How Peterson pushed back against our size obsession and the institutionalism of a business-centered approach to church growth

The importance of those inefficient hours in a pastor’s life and schedule

And more


Links:

A Burning in My Bones: The Authorized Biography of Eugene H. Peterson, Translator of The Message

Working the Angles: The Shape of Pastoral Integrity


Karl's new book, De-sizing the Church: How Church Growth Became a Science, Then an Obsession, and What's Next, is now available wherever you buy books, either electronically or in print. If you’ve read the book and you’d like Karl to speak to your group about the issues he raises in it, reach out at KarlVaters.com/Contact Me.
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