The Forget The Funnel Podcast Forget the Funnel

We need to talk about voice of customer — because there’s been a misunderstanding.

Voice of customer isn’t just for huge companies. It’s also not an abstract, academic concept that’s too broad for teams to use. 

Done right, insights pulled from the words your customers use are practical and actionable. And they can help your team make better business decisions day in and day out. 

Best of all, you don’t have to undertake a massive, endless research project to start putting the words of your best customers, aka ‘Voice of Customer', to work for your business. You can tap into both quick-win and in-depth methods to capture and leverage those insights to attract way more great-fit customers.

Ready to tap into VoC? Listen to this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast as Georgiana and Claire dive deep into why the voice of the customer matters, how you can (and should) apply it to your business, and the methods you can use to get started.

Discussed:
Common misconceptions about voice of customer and how it fits into the foundational understanding of your customers.

Methods for capturing voice of customer, including customer interviews, qualitative surveys, signup flows, social listening and other quick-win tactics.

Practical applications for voice of customer, from your homepage copy to product positioning and onboarding experiences.Key moments:
1:12 - Claire kicks things off by defining voice of customer, and Georgiana explains some of the misconceptions that might hold companies back from capturing and using it.

5:16 - Georgiana takes a “then and now” look at the voice of customer concept. She compares how the term was first used in 1993 to how it looks today, with practical daily applications in areas like marketing.

8:38 - Georgiana explains how capturing voice of customer is part of foundational customer understanding. She also describes the output of those conversations: both high-level understanding and actual customer quotes.

12:05 - Claire asks Georgiana to share some methods for capturing voice of customer beyond customer interviews.

16:21 - Claire offers guidance for which methods to start with when gathering the voice of the customer and the importance of knowing that your insights are coming from your best-fit customers.

21:51 - Georgiana speaks to the importance of recording and manually transcribing customer interviews — and why you shouldn’t use AI to transcribe for voice of customer.

24:27 - Georgiana and Claire share an example of a customer who gathered the voice of the customer through qualitative surveys. What they learned completely changed their messaging, which led to a 93% increase in product sign-ups.

30:39 - Voice of customer is versatile and applicable well beyond your website homepage. Georgiana closes out the episode by sharing the many applications for the voice of customer.
Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/

Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/

Check out Forget the Funnel’s website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/

Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

It’s rough out there in SaaS—everyone’s feeling it. Whether you’re trying to lower your acquisition costs, make the most of organic inbound interest, or better meet the needs of your technical buyers, you might be ready to take a more product-led approach to growth.

But if you’re a sales-led organization, the transition to product-led can be bumpy, and the idea of switching probably raises more questions than answers.

How do you validate that there’s a real ‘product-led’ opportunity for your SaaS? How do you prevent cannabilizing your sales opportunities?  What would a shift like this mean for your team? What are some low-risk ways to leverage your product for acquisition?

If you’ve got questions like those, don't miss this Forget the Funnel podcast episode. Claire and Georgiana dig into all things product-led and share the indications that your SaaS is ready for a product-led approach, how to navigate company culture pitfalls, and the baby steps you can take to get started and validate the transition.

Discussed:
Key indicators that signal your SaaS is ready for product-led growth.

Cultural and team alignment are essentials for a smooth transition to PLG, and marketing, product, and other teams might need to change.

Practical starting points for integrating product-led tactics into your current business model. Key moments:
2:03—Georgiana breaks down the differences between sales-led and product-led growth and other approaches to growth.

4:01 - Claire asks Georgiana to walk through the signs that a company might need to move toward product-led growth or that it’s time to transition away from founder-led sales.

9:14 - Team culture is critical in shifting to a product-led approach. Claire and Georgiana explore some potential growing pains when moving away from the sales-led structure (and where to focus on overcoming those).

13:50—Claire shares the cautionary tale of a company where the CEO wanted to move to a product-led approach but didn’t do the legwork to get buy-in from the rest of the leadership team.

15:06 - Georgiana explores how the move to product-led growth might look for different teams  — and how, in particular, the expectations of product and marketing need to shift.

19:14—Georgiana explores tangible ways companies can start the transition from a purely sales-led to a product-led approach, including learning from their customers to better leverage their product.

20:52 -  Claire and Georgiana break down examples of tactical entry points to PLG, like a video from the CEO when someone books a demo and sandboxes or other low-touch customer experiences.

28:38—The pair closes out the episode by emphasizing how important it is to know your customers intimately before you can leverage product-led growth.
Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/

Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/

Check out Forget the Funnel’s website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/

Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

“We don’t need customer research; we already know our customers.” “Research takes too long.” “Is qualitative research even valuable enough?” 

These objections to customer research are super common—every day, founders and teams use these excuses (and oh so many more) not to learn more from their customers. 

Maybe you’re wrestling with these objections yourself or trying to move others past them to get internal buy-in for customer research. Either way, here’s the bottom line: There’s no better way to gain the intel you need to grow your SaaS and improve conversions than by getting inside your customers' heads.

In this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast, Claire and Georgiana break down the four most common myths about customer research they’ve encountered. They talk through where they come from, how to get past them, and why foundational customer understanding is critical for every business decision you make.
Discussed:
The top four customer research objections.

The importance of building a foundational customer understanding based on 10 to 12 conversations with recent, paying, and happy customers—and why you don’t need to spend endless months and tens of thousands of dollars on research.

How do changes in your customers, market, product, and team make customer research all the more urgent? Key moments:
1:32 — Claire sets the stage for the episode by outlining the four most common objections to customer research.
3:18—Georgiana discusses the most common research objection: “We already know our customers.” Claire explains why founders often feel this way and the problem with leaning on early-stage intuition long-term.
6:22 — Georgiana speaks to the similar objection that customer success or product teams frequently research or interviews with customers and why this misses the forest for the trees.
10:42 — Claire shares the second most common customer research objection: “Research takes too much time.” Georgiana breaks down where this objection comes from. (Hint: It’s usually prior experiences with research projects on a massive scale.)
13:18 — Georgiana explains what it can look like to gain foundational customer understanding with 10 to 12 customer interviews, along with quicker wins like running a qualitative customer survey or adding a question to your sign-up form.
18:49 — Georgiana introduces the third objection, which shows up when people think 10 interviews couldn’t possibly be enough or want quantitative proof. Claire breaks down the context you need when running customer interviews and the importance of pattern saturation, which you can get from 10 to 12 interviews.
25:01 —  The fourth and final objection comes when a product moves into a new market, and the team doesn’t think they can learn from their current customer base. Georgiana explains why this objection has become more common in recent years.
33:54 — The pair ends the episode by pointing to other episodes of the podcast and resources that explore these topics and objections more in-depth.
Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/

Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/

Check out Forget the Funnel’s website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/

Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

From competitive analysis to NPS surveys to UX research, research can help you grow your business and revenue.

But you're wasting your time if you jump into those research types without a foundational understanding of your ideal customer and what they’re trying to accomplish. You’ll end up down unhelpful or misleading paths that leave you with more questions than answers. As they say, you’ll be ‘missing the forest for the trees’.

Starting with qualitative customer interviews—conversations with your best customers about what led them to your solution in the first place and the value you’re driving for them now–is the gold standard for a reason. 

Customer interviews are how you reverse engineer their experience to find and acquire more customers like them.

In this episode of the Forget the Funnel podcast, Claire and Georgiana get super tactical about the art of interviewing customers. They explain what it takes to interview well, the critical elements of a Jobs-to-Be-Done interview, and the pitfalls to avoid when you’re new to customer research.

Discussed:
How to pick the right customers to interview and the skills that make someone a great customer interviewer so you can choose the right team member to run them.

The elements of an effective Jobs-to-Be-Done style interview and questions to ask.

Mistakes you should avoid in customer research, how a question script can help, and how bringing in an outside expert can be an advantage for deeper learning with the added benefit to the team.Key Moments:

1:32—Georgiana asks Claire to clarify why you would choose customer interviews over other customer research methods. Claire shares how learning from your ideal customers is the foundational research that helps you make strategic decisions.

5:02—Claire explains how one client with a broad customer base chose the right customers to interview: They started with a survey to gather key data points and identify who had embedded a critical feature into their workflow.

9:27 - Claire explains the “unfair advantage” some of your team members may have for customer interviews: a knack for active listening and navigating unpredictability without getting flustered.

10:10 - Georgiana asks Claire to break down the elements of a Jobs-to-Be-Done-style interview, and Claire shares about guiding the customer to explain what their life looked like before they “hired” your solution. 

17:21 - Claire breaks down the pitfalls to avoid if your team is new to customer research. She recommends having a question script (one you adapt as you go) or outsourcing customer interviews to an expert.

19:22—Georgiana talks about why sensing a customer’s energy makes interviewing a task that AI won’t be able to take over for humans anytime soon.

22:20—The pair finishes out the episode with their advice to founders about outsourcing customer interviews: You get the benefit of external expertise, and someone from your team can ride sidecar to upskill and do it themselves in the future.
Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/

Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/

Check out Forget the Funnel’s website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/

Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

One study found that 70% of people who sign up for a product log in once… and then never again. 

That’s why customer-led KPIs aren’t just about measuring when someone becomes a “customer” — they’re about measuring the critical customer outcomes that lead to high retention. To do that, you must focus on genuine customer value: getting them from their first moment of value to value realization, continued value and beyond. 

So, how do you define your own customer-led KPIs? You need to know what “job” your customers are hiring your solution to solve for them. You need to understand what matters to them to map that value to the specific parts of your product that deliver that value.

In this episode of the Forget the Funnel Podcast — the second of two episodes on customer-led KPIs — Claire and Georgiana share how to build your KPIs around moments of value for your customers. They explain how to map the customer experience, share examples of customer-led KPIs, and explore how to rally your team around your new KPIs.
Discussed:
What your customer journey map isn’t telling you and how the three phases of the customer experience will help you operationalize growth.

The critical importance of getting the evaluation phase KPIs right and how to leverage Jobs-to-be-Done to measure value realization.

How to rally your team around customer-led KPIs and maximize their impact on growth.Key Moments:

1:47 - Claire and Georgiana explore the difference between customer journey mapping and customer experience mapping.

3:31 - Georgiana shares why the evaluation phase of the customer experience is critical for setting customer-led KPIs — and how many teams get it wrong. She also breaks down the importance of first value and value realization at this stage.

7:09 - Claire asks Georgiana to talk through examples of customer-led KPIs, and Georgiana walks through a hypothetical example of how to tie a particular product feature to a moment of value.

9:52 - Georgiana defines value realization (AKA reaching true product engagement) and what a corresponding KPI looks like.

11:10 - Before your customers get to value realization, your only job is to help them hit those value-focused KPIs — so you shouldn’t be throwing every possible feature at them. Georgiana explains that once they’ve hit value realization, you can shift to helping them get additional value through additional features or expanding to other team members.

14:06 - Claire asks Georgiana to speak about how to rally people around customer-led KPIs instead of letting those metrics sit on the shelf. (Hint: Customer-led KPIs are way more motivating than transactional measures of success.)

16:27 - Another way to embed customer-led KPIs for your team? Evaluate your current customer experience and figure out what’s misaligned with your new KPIs, which will open new opportunities.

17:48 - Claire finishes the episode by sharing advice for more mature and nimble companies to gather data to implement and track customer-led KPIs.


Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/

Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/

Check out Forget the Funnel’s website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/

Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook

If you’re measuring everything, you’re measuring nothing. It’s so important for you to pick a handful of key performance indicators (KPIs) for your team to focus on — or they won’t end up moving the needle on anything.

But how do you pick KPIs that matter, so you can motivate and incentivize your team to drive customer value (and ultimately, growth)?

Instead of transactional measures of success, focus on customer-focused KPIs that let you measure moments of value. You need to know which parts of your product drive customer value and measure your ability to move them from one milestone to the next.

In this episode of the Forget the Funnel Podcast — the first of two episodes on customer-led KPIs — Claire and Georgiana define customer-led KPIs and share why metrics that focus on helping customers solve problems are more actionable and motivating for your team.

Discussed:
The definition of KPIs and why each team needs them.

Why focusing on transactional measures is a problem — and why measuring experiential moments in the customer relationship is the way to go.

The prerequisites for setting customer-led KPIs and the importance of knowing which parts of your product drive value for the customer.Key Moments:
2:30 - Georgiana defines KPIs and shares why they’re a critical metric. She explains that when you measure everything, you’re measuring nothing, so your team needs to focus on a few KPIs. 
3:47 - Claire and Georgiana differentiate transactional measures of success — like trial-to-paid conversions or entering a credit card — from customer-focused KPIs, which measure experiential moments in the customer relationship. 
6:40 - Georgiana explains why transactional measures of success can be problematic KPIs (even though lagging indicators like MRR and churn do matter).
10:37 - Claire shares why it’s a mistake to measure your growth team by lead numbers rather than focusing on lead quality or the value they can get down the line. Gia also speaks to success indicators that can be misleading, like daily, weekly, and monthly users, and breaks down MQLs, SQLs, and PQLs.
16:10 - Claire asks Georgiana to share about the prerequisites for defining customer-led KPIs that tie your team’s success to customer value.
19:29 - Georgiana talks about how common it is for product teams to get so excited about their offering that they throw the kitchen sink at new customers because they’re not sure about what parts of their product they should introduce to customers in which order.
21:30 - The pair ends the episode by talking about converting customers in a low-touch way: You need to know the parts of the product that drive value and measure your ability to help customers get from one milestone to the next. 
Follow Georgiana on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/georgianalaudi/

Follow Claire on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/clairesuellentrop/

Check out Forget the Funnel’s website: https://forgetthefunnel.com/

Get the free Forget the Funnel workbook to help you implement Customer-Led Growth: https://forgetthefunnel.com/workbook