The VBAC Link Meagan Heaton

Katie joins us today to tell us about her two birth experiences in Germany. Although she strongly advocated for herself during her first birth, Katie was extremely mistreated. Her labor and horrible C-section experience left her with intense PTSD straining her relationship with both her baby and her husband. 

Katie knew that if she wanted to have another baby, she had to plan for an out-of-hospital birth. She continued to advocate for herself by not only learning the evidence but by showing it to providers and defending it. Though she wasn’t able to find a supportive backup hospital, Katie labored beautifully at home with her husband, doula, and midwife until she knew it was time to transfer. 

When she transferred, Katie was able to go to the hospital she wanted to go to and was finally treated with respect. Her wishes were honored and she felt heard. Though this labor was also over 40 hours and had its own unexpected twists, Katie experienced so much healing from her VBAC. She was able to achieve the glorious feeling she hoped she would have from a home birth even in the hospital.  

TOLAC in Germany Article
Evidence-Based Birth Blog: Friedman Curve
Informed Pregnancy - code: vbaclink424
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

04:41 Review of the Week
07:27 Katie’s stories
11:14 Start of labor
16:55 Going to the hospital
20:22 Interventions
29:44 Katie’s C-section
32:06 Preparing for VBAC
34:34 Second pregnancy
42:01 Labor begins
47:11 Getting support from her birth team
50:12 Transferring to the hospital
53:32 Feeling intense scar pain
56:23 Asking for the vacuum
58:42 Katie’s advice for listeners
1:01:47 The Friedman Curve
1:06:16 Trusting your intuition
1:08:56 Doula support


Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength! We have a story for you today where a mama gave birth in Germany. So I love, love, love when we have out-of-the-country birth stories because we often get messages from people outside of the country wondering if VBAC is still possible and the answer is YES. 100% it is possible and we have our friend Katie today. Hello, Katie!

Katie: Hi.

Meagan: She is going to just be sharing her story showing that it is possible to VBAC. Now, one of the things that I actually really love about Katie’s story is that it shows that things can change, and even when things change it doesn’t have to be bad. I sit in that because I personally wanted to birth out of the hospital and when I was in labor, in my mind, if I had to transfer, I was for a little while telling myself that that was a bad thing. And that it wouldn’t happen, or people would be looking down, or whatever. 

I was spiraling. I was just going through a moment in labor. But something that stood out to me with Katie’s, is she talks about how after a really long labor at home, planned home birth, her intuition, which we talk about a lot, knew that she needed to make another choice in her labor and that was to go to the hospital. Right, Katie?

Katie: Exactly. Yep.

Meagan: And so I love that we can talk about how plans can change and that doesn’t mean it has to be the be-all end-all. Is that how you say it?

Katie: Yeah.

Meagan: It doesn’t mean it has to be over or it doesn’t mean your chances of VBAC are done. If you are planning a home birth and you make the choice, or even if it was medically necessary, like sometimes it is, right? That doesn’t mean that it has to be bad. And so I love that part about her story and that she listened to her intuition. 

And then also another highlight, is that intervention happened, right? And that sometimes in this community we fear the intervention. I understand why we don’t all usually want the intervention, we just want it to be left alone. But sometimes intervention comes into play and sometimes those interventions help us get the birth that we wanted. 

And so I’m just going to end there because I want Katie to be able to shar

Jenny’s story is one of pure gratitude and joy. She is so grateful to be a mother, for the miracle of her pregnancies, for a breech baby who flipped late in her second pregnancy, for the chance to experience labor, and for a beautiful, successful VBAC. 

Jenny talks about all of the ways she prepped and how she even had to travel over a mountain pass during a snowstorm while in labor to get to her VBAC-supportive provider. Meagan shares some statistics about breech birth and why we so badly need more providers trained in vaginal breech delivery.

A long-time listener of The VBAC Link Podcast, Jenny shares her story with so much joy hoping to inspire other Women of Strength just as she was inspired by so many others. 

PubMed Article: Risk of Vaginal Breech Birth vs. Planned Cesarean
Heads Up Documentary
Informed Pregnancy - code: vbaclink424
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

02:58 Jenny’s first pregnancy with gestational diabetes
06:10 Low amniotic fluid, breech presentation, and a C-section
10:22 Healing in different ways
14:16 Getting pregnant again and doing all of the VBAC prep
22:52 Gestational diabetes test
27:59 Breech at 34 weeks
32:33 A head-down baby
35:11 Traveling the mountain pass in a snowstorm
39:43 Checking into the hospital
45:42 Fetal ejection reflex
49:20 Pushing out baby and postpartum blood loss
57:10 Jenny’s advice for breech mamas
1:00:22 Statistics on vaginal birth versus planned Cesarean for breech

Meagan: Hey, hey. You are listening to The VBAC Link Podcast and we have another amazing episode for you today. We have our friend, Jenny. Hello, Jenny. 

Jenny: Hi. 

Meagan: How are you today?

Jenny: I’m good. I’m so excited. This is just– I am reeling actually that this is actually happening today. 

Meagan: I am so excited that it is. You know, it’s so fun to get submissions in and then when we send them out, people are like, “Wait, what? Really?” 

Jenny: That is exactly how I felt. I was like, “This is never going to happen, but I’m just going to go for it. I’m just going to submit it.” I mean, The VBAC Link was such a huge part of my whole story and just to be on here and hopefully share something inspirational with somebody else, hopefully it helps somebody. That’s my goal today. 

Meagan: It will. It’s absolutely going to. The whole podcast, sorry if you guys hear any noise in the background by the way. I’m getting a new furnace today and he’s installing it downstairs literally below me. So sorry if there’s any extra background noise. But this podcast is literally something that I wish so badly that I had when I was going through my VBAC. 

Obviously, that’s one of the reasons why we were inspired to create it, but every single story, even though they all might have similarities or even be in similar places, they are so different and unique and I love that. I love that almost 300 episodes in, we can prove that every birth is different. 

It’s true. Every birth is different and you went through a lot with your births. I mean, I’ve got her list right here of things. You guys, this is going to be a jam-packed episode. She’s got gestational diabetes, breech, advanced maternal age, and trusting the process. We’re going to talk about traveling literally over a mountain pass. She drove over a mountain pass to find what she needed so I’m so excited to dive into your episode in just one minute after the intro. 
02:58 Jenny’s first pregnancy with gestational diabetes
Meagan: Okay, Jenny. Here we go. You are– are you ready? Are you ready? She is dancing in the background. You can’t see her but she is literally dancing. You can see she is so excited to share this amazing story with you. 

Jenny: I am so ready. Okay, so let me go back four years to my C-section baby. I can’t believe it’s been that long. Being a mom was never in the cards for me. I’m just going to sta

Macy’s first birth was a scheduled C-section due to breech presentation that required follow-up exploratory surgery due to an unknown cause of internal bleeding. Unfortunately, her surgeon had accidentally nicked an ab muscle. Macy’s recovery was very difficult.

With her second, doctors were nervous about her chances of VBAC and would only let her try if she showed up in active labor before 39 weeks. Otherwise, she would go in for a scheduled C-section. Macy agreed and her birth ended in another Cesarean. Her birth was beautiful and her recovery was smooth, but it still wasn’t the empowering experience she hoped for. 

Macy hit the ground running during her third pregnancy. When doctors were not supportive of a VBA2C, she knew home birth was her best option. She found a midwife who was willing to take Macy on as her first VBA2C client! We know you will absolutely love listening to this birth story. 

Like Meagan said, “It is so beautiful. It is so peaceful. It sounds like one of those births where you close your eyes and you envision birth and how peaceful, beautiful, and calm it really can be.”

The VBAC Link Blog: VBA2C
 Practice Bulletin - VBAC
Informed Pregnancy - code: vbaclink424
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

03:44 First C-section with internal bleeding and a follow-up exploratory surgery
09:04 Second pregnancy
11:37 Scheduled C-section and getting pregnant again shortly after
18:44 Finding a supportive home birth midwife
23:24 VBA2C prep during pregnancy
27:46 Labor begins
32:42 Breaking her own water and pushing for 17 minutes
36:47 ACOG’s statement on VBA2C

Meagan: Hello, hello Women of Strength. We are so excited to be sharing an HBA2C story and if you don’t know yet what HBAC means, that’s home birth after Cesarean and then HBA2C is home birth after two Cesareans. I feel like that’s kind of funny. It’s never really a term I used because I wasn’t at the hospital and I wasn’t at home, but I also kind of feel like I sort of had an HBAC. It was at a birth center. Maybe that’s a term, birth center birth after two Cesareans. I don’t know. 

But obviously, VBAC after two Cesareans are near and dear to my own heart and today we have our friend Macy from California sharing her HBAC story and just before we started recording, we were talking about how one of her messages that she wants to give is that you can do this. Right, Macy? You’re just like, you can. People can do this. 

Macy: For sure. 

Meagan: Yes. Yes. I am excited to hear your story and then I wanted to also just talk a little bit at the end about some evidence on VBAC after two C-sections. So if you’re wondering more about VBA2C, make sure you stick to the very, very end even after the story because we’ll talk a little bit about that. 

01:24

Meagan: We do have a Review of the Week and this is from Jenna. It is actually on our How to VBAC: Ultimate VBAC Prep Course. She says, “I just started but have already learned so much. After two C-sections and one where my doctor made me think it was very risky, I was terrified to try again. With this course, not only have I learned the truth about VBAC, but I am excited to attempt mine in August.” That’s coming up. I am so excited for Jenna. Thank you so much for the review and the support, of course, of taking the course. I am so excited that you are getting educated and definitely keep us posted. 

03:44 First C-section with internal bleeding and a follow-up exploratory surgery
Meagan: Okay, cute Macy. Welcome to the show. 

Macy: Thank you for having me. 

Meagan: Absolutely. I’d love to turn the time over to you and share whatever message you feel is important for our beautiful Women of Strength listeners. 

Macy: Okay, well like with all VBACs, my story begins of course with my first pregnancy. During my first pregnancy, I was pretty healthy. I didn’t love being pregnant, but I was

“Control what you can control.” 

Brooke’s birth experiences have not been without challenges. She first had an extremely difficult miscarriage during COVID followed by intense bleeding due to massive subchorionic hemorrhages during her other two pregnancies. Her first delivery was a very traumatic C-section from not being completely anesthetized. After that, Brooke committed to doing everything in her power not to have that experience ever again and to do everything she could to avoid a C-section. 

Along with another subchorionic hemorrhage, her third pregnancy presented another challenge when she found out her baby had a bowel obstruction and would need surgery along with a NICU stay immediately after birth. Brooke was disheartened learning that she needed a medically necessary induction, but she was still committed to doing everything she could to achieve her VBAC. 

Her efforts to surround herself with a powerful team paid off. Everyone around her championed her VBAC. Brooke was able to go from the most traumatic birth imaginable to the most beautiful, empowering, and healing birth she literally dreamed about. 

Brooke’s Website
Informed Pregnancy - code: vbaclink424
Needed Website - code: vbac20
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

04:36 Review of the Week
07:19 Brooke’s first pregnancy
11:18 Miscarriage
15:01 Brooke’s dream
17:20 Second pregnancy
21:26 Going into labor and getting admitted
28:06 An extremely traumatic C-section
32:53 Third pregnancy
38:17 Bleeding again
43:09 Finding a bowel obstruction in baby
46:57 Switching providers the day before her scheduled induction
50:57 Progressing to complete dilation
54:54 Getting an epidural and pushing for three hours
59:40 15 tips for birth
1:04:22 Control what you can control


Meagan: Good morning, good afternoon, good evening– whatever time it is that you are listening to this episode, I hope that you are doing great. We are excited to get into another VBAC story today from our friend. Okay, so I’m trying to think. Remind me. Are you in North Carolina now or are you in New York City now?

Brooke: No, I’m in North Carolina now, but the story starts in New York City. 

Meagan: The story starts in New York City. She’s in North Carolina now. Her name is Brooke. Tell me a little bit more. You are an educator. You are helping kids read, right? Is this what I’m getting from your website? 

Brooke: Yes. 

Meagan: Okay, so tell us more about what you do. 

Brooke: I worked in New York City public schools for 10 years. I was a teacher, a literacy coach, and an administrator so I have experience both in the classroom and in school leadership. After we welcomed my daughter and after the pandemic, we moved to be closer to family in the Raleigh, North Carolina area and here I’m an education consultant. 

Meagan: Education consultant. Awesome. We will make sure to have your website linked for anyone listening. What type of people would want to go to your website? 

Brooke: I offer a number of services. The first thing that I do is pretty classic consulting in elementary school. I provide literacy support. My expertise is in pre-K through 3rd grade so early reading foundational skills. I help schools with their reading programs. 

But additionally, there’s a big home school community in the Raleigh area. 

Meagan: I saw that on your website. 

Brooke: Yeah, I’ve had a really wonderful experience so far working with families getting set up on their homeschooling journey and supporting parents and caregivers in taking on the teacher role at home. 

Meagan: Awesome. Awesome. I think home school, especially since COVID has really taken off. I know a lot of people, some of my best friends in fact here in Utah even homeschool. It’s a great resource. 

In addition to all of the amazing, great things you do, you have a VBAC story to share with us after a Cesarean that was performed pretty ea

Today’s episode has a wealth of information you won’t want to miss! Dr. Kendra Ohora is a Licensed Clinical Marriage & Family Therapist and also a VBAC mom. From being told she would never have children to currently expecting her third baby boy, Kendra shares how prioritizing her mental health helped her through some really tough years. 

Kendra’s first birth was a planned breech home birth with an empowering labor. But when baby was not descending after hours of pushing, she felt at peace transferring to the hospital. Unfortunately, Kendra’s hospital experience was traumatic and resulted in a C-section under anesthesia. 

Through processing and healing, Kendra was able to prepare for and achieve the home birth she hoped for the first time with her second baby who was born only 14 months after her first. 

Tia, a VBAC doula from the Chicago area, joins Meagan as her cohost today and finishes the episode with the top three pieces of advice that she gives to all of her clients. 

Kendra's Website
Tia's Website
Informed Pregnancy - code: vbaclink424
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

03:24 Review of the Week
06:07 Kendra’s professional background
09:00 Kendra’s surprise pregnancy
10:54 First birth
13:14 Surrendering
16:15 Surprise baby number two
21:00 Kendra’s VBAC
29:30 Processing births
33:31 Erin’s e-courses
36:16 Benefits of therapy
41:39 Short interval between pregnancies
45:51 Tia’s top three tips
48:54 Hire a great support team 
51:38 Prepare your mind


Meagan: Hello, hello. We have another amazing episode for you guys today and guess what? We did this a couple of weeks ago and I thought it would be fun to do it again. We have a co-host with us today. It’s not Julie, but it is Tia. Hello, Tia. 

Tia: Hi. Thank you so much for having me. 

Meagan: Absolutely. Tia is amazing and she is actually one of our VBAC certified doulas. I want to turn the time a little bit over to you and tell us where can people find you. What is your business name? All of that. 

Tia: Yeah. I am in the Chicagoland area so I serve a wide radius about an hour from my hometown of Mount Prospect. My business is Chicagoland Birth and Baby. Most people can find me on my website. It is Chicagolandbirthandbaby.com or they can email me at chibirthandbaby@gmail.com. Yeah. I would love for people to reach out to me if they are in my area. 

Meagan: Awesome. We will make sure to have her link and everything also in the show notes. You can easily find her. If you’re in her area looking for a doula, definitely give her a call.

Okay, you guys. We have a guest today. I mean, you are all special. Every guest is so special, but Dr. Kendra Ohora is with us today. She is a VBAC mom and then she also offers something very special that I think connects or can connect a lot with our audience because we go through a lot of stuff as VBAC moms and C-section moms and all of this. She actually owns a wellness company and she is a mental health and wellness practice in Hartford County. 

Kendra: Mhmm. 

Meagan: Awesome, okay, in Maryland. She specializes in couples therapy and perinatal mental health. In her brief years as a mom, she has learned to love and appreciate slowing down which I know we all need to do in life, all things neutral, and lots of time outdoors. Her VBAC journey is one of her most proud moments as a woman and a mom. 

I am excited for her to come to talk about her VBAC story but then also a little bit more of what she offers because I do. Like I said, I think it applies very well to our community. 

03:24 Review of the Week
Meagan: But of course, we have a Review of the Week so I’m going to turn the time back over to Tia really quickly and then we’ll dive right in. 

Tia: Yeah. I have a review from dmiller21395 from September 18, 2023. The subject is, “Empowering and Motivating.” This is from Apple Podcasts. It says, “I just had my suc

Meagan has a new co-host today! Rebecca, a pelvic floor physical therapist and a VBAC Link doula located in Georgia joins Meagan while our friend Hannah from North Carolina shares her birth stories. 

This episode stresses again the true importance of not just a supportive provider, but of a supportive practice including hospital policies, the team of rotating providers, and the nurses. Hannah shows how her borderline preeclamptic symptoms were treated very differently between her first and second births. Her first practice had many red flags she didn’t notice until her second practice showed green flag after green flag throughout her entire journey. 

Rebecca also shares her expertise surrounding pelvic floor PT– who needs it and how it can impact birth outcomes. She also debunks myths about small pelvises and talks in depth about scar tissue. 

Both women share such valuable tips that we know you will love!

Real Food for Pregnancy by Lily Nichols
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

03:11 Review of the Week
05:13 Hannah’s stories
08:17 Higher blood pressure readings and induction
10:26 Induction due to high blood pressure readings
11:52 Interventions and not being able to move during labor
16:50 Hannah’s C-section
19:36 Rebecca’s thoughts about pelvic bone structure
22:42 Second pregnancy
29:01 A medically necessary induction
33:27 Ending the first full day of induction
38:03 Pushing for 20 minutes
39:59 Hannah’s advice to listeners - provider support and nutrition
44:17 Small pelvises and scar tissue
50:13 Other scar tissue that can affect positioning


Meagan: Hey, hey Women of Strength. It is Meagan and guess what? We have a cohost today, a new cohost who has never been with us and we are so excited that she is joining us. We have Rebecca Goldberg on our podcast today. Hello, Rebecca. 

Rebecca: Hello. 

Meagan: Thank you for taking the time and being with us. 

Rebecca: Yeah. I really love the resources and the community and I’m just thrilled to be here. 

Meagan: Well, we are excited and for anyone wondering who Rebecca is, she is an amazing human being. She actually does a lot in pelvic PT and is one of our VBAC-certified doulas. She’s in Georgia. 

Rebecca: Yep. I’m in Atlanta, the Decatur area. 

Meagan: Decatur area. Is that where you serve mainly? 

Rebecca: Yeah. I have people who come to me from all over. Some people are traveling up to an hour or an hour and a half, but I actually can go to people’s homes who are directly in my area. So, people who are post-C-section, I can come to you as early as the day you are discharged. I can work with you deal with pain, make sure you know what needs to happen, and help you do all of the things. That’s where my passion really lies. 

Meagan: I love that. I love that and for VBAC, how early for pelvic floor and stuff? How early can you start working with them? 

Rebecca: As soon as they have gotten home. If they are planning on getting pregnant again, we can start building that into what our plans are so that we are starting that process earlier rather than later and you’re more likely to have results that when you are ready to get pregnant, you can just get pregnant. 

Meagan: Love it. Awesome. Well, thank you, thank you for being here. 

03:11 Review of the Week
Meagan: You guys, as usual, we have a Review of the Week. You don’t have to listen to me stumble upon the review. Rebecca will read it. I’m sure she will do a lot better than I normally do. 

Rebecca: Well, this review is from Apple Podcasts and it’s from semicrunchyyogi. I love that name. The review says, “My personal VBAC journey was actually directly influenced by Meagan Heaton, one of the hosts on this podcast. She was my doula with my second baby, my 10-pound VBAC baby.” Whoa. 

Meagan: Woo, yeah. 

Rebecca: “When she started this podcast, I knew it would be something special. I will a