The VBAC Link Meagan Heaton

Kristen joins us today to share her tough C-section and two beautiful VBAC stories! After a 41-week elective induction that turned into a C-section and a 2.5-week NICU stay due to meconium and heart decelerations, Kristen was very nervous about giving birth again. She found The VBAC Link Podcast and found hope. Through her VBAC research, she gained the determination and confidence she needed to try again. 

When she was showing symptoms of preeclampsia, Kristen accepted the reality of a medically necessary induction. She was nervous but knew things would be different. She labored well and had moments of discouragement, but she used the tools available and achieved her VBAC. 

Kristen also had some preeclampsia symptoms but was able to avoid induction, labored almost completely at home, and caught her baby in a wheelchair at the hospital waiting for the elevator!

How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

01:11 Review of the Week
04:23 Kristen’s first pregnancy
06:20 Agreeing to induction
08:27 Emergency C-section and NICU stay
12:55 Gaining confidence to VBAC and getting pregnant again
17:28 39-week induction
21:18 Feeling discouraged
27:15 Getting the epidural and pushing for less than an hour
30:58 Third pregnancy
34:41 Forced to find a new provider at 36 weeks
40:45 Labor begins
46:11 Rushing to the hospital
48:06 Delivering her own baby in a wheelchair
51:27 Preeclampsia article and calibrating your blood pressure cuff

Meagan: Hey everybody, welcome to the show. We have our friend, Kristen with us today. Hello, Kristen. 

Kristen: Hi. 

Meagan: We have her and her little baby as well so you can hear those little cute coos in the background. You can just smile. I love when we have little babies on the podcast or kids. The other day, we had a little toddler. It was so fun. It makes my heart so happy. How old is your little baby now? 

Kristen: She is over a month. Just over a month. 

Meagan: Just little little. This is a VBAC baby. 

Kristen: Yes, she is. 

Meagan: We were just talking before we got recording. Kristen had a C-section and then a VBAC and with that VBAC, she had preeclampsia. We are going to talk a little bit more of what that looked like, but that has definitely been one of the themes that our listeners have been asking about. Is VBAC possible with lab-positive preeclampsia? The answer is yes. It is. We will talk a little bit more about that and then she has a surprise. 

01:11 Review of the Week
Meagan: We are going to read a review and then we are going to dive into her stories. 

This review was left in March 2023 by mcgrace and it says, “Must-listen For Every Mom”. It says, “This podcast is a must-listen not just for a mom preparing for a VBAC, but for anyone who gives birth and has given birth or plans to give birth in the U.S. Meagan wonderfully walks through personal stories while prepping for helping for helpful advocacy tips and a solid dose of empowerment in each episode. If you want to hear people discussing their plan to VBAC, if you are curious about what giving birth in the U.S. is like, and if you are wanting to have tips on how to mentally, emotionally, and physically prepare yourself for the best birth, this is the podcast to listen to.”

I love that. Thank you so much and I agree. This is such a great place for everybody, anyone preparing for birth to listen. I think with crazy-high Cesarean rates, we’ve talked about this before. We have to talk about why they are happening and this podcast literally shares a lot of why Cesareans are happening. It is such a great podcast for anyone including first-time moms or even fifth-time moms who haven’t had a Cesarean. 

As always, if you wouldn’t mind leaving us a review, you can head over to Apple Podcasts or Google or Spotify or wherever you are listening and drop us a review. You can even email us at info@thevbaclink.com.

04:23 Kristen’s first pregnancy
Meagan: Okay

Emily’s first birth experience was a home birth turned hospital transfer which ended in a C-section and then a birth center VBAC ending in hospital transfer and another C-section with her second. She found herself feeling alone, frustrated, and surrounded by people who just didn't get it as she worked to process the trauma and grief of not one but two back-to-back traumatic births and C-sections. 

Throughout her journey, Emily took charge of what she could, learned about her options, and made the right decisions even when they were disappointing. Emily has been proactive about physical and emotional healing. She has been open to new perspectives. Emily is grateful to share her story and all that she has learned for other mamas who have found themselves in similar situations. And we are so grateful that we can feel of her strength! 

The VBAC Link Blog: How to Cope When You Don't Get Your VBAC
The VBAC Link Blog: Deciding on VBAC vs Repeat Cesarean
NPR Article
Spinning Babies: What to Do When...
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

05:02 Review of the Week
09:10 Emily’s first pregnancy and labor
14:59 First C-section
17:47 Second pregnancy
21:16 Moving and switching providers
33:20 Pushing for 5 hours
35:45 Transferring
37:47 C-section
41:29 Tips for adhesions
44:20 Hospital births are beautiful
49:09 All about transferring


Meagan: Hello, everybody. It is Meagan and we have our friend, Emily, with us from Texas today. Hello, Emily. How are you?

Emily: I’m good. How are you?

Meagan: I am wonderful. I am so wonderful. I love recording these stories if you can’t tell. We are producing them a lot because I love recording. I love hearing these stories and sharing these stories. Your story is a CBAC story which I think is so important to share on The VBAC Link Podcast. As technically a CBAC mama myself because I don’t know if anybody knows who is listening, but I had a C-section then I wanted a VBAC and had a Cesarean and then I had a vaginal birth. So all over the place. 

CBAC is really special to my heart and I think that this is such an important topic to share on the podcast because we know that obviously, so many C-sections are happening, right? I also think it’s important to know that sometimes even when we are preparing for a VBAC, it might end in a Cesarean birth and even more important, I think it’s really important to know that Cesarean births can be healing and are a lot of the times healing. Would you agree with me, Emily? 

Emily: Yes. I mean, I loved hearing the healing stories. Mine was not and I think that’s what I yearned for to her is that I’m not alone and it’s okay to have a repeat C-section and I hate calling it a failed VBAC, but a repeat C-section that wasn’t wanted and wasn’t healing. I mean, my second birth was much more traumatic than my first. I mean, I hate saying traumatic because I have two beautiful, healthy babies, but I also want listeners to know that just because you have a healthy baby and you didn’t have serious complications you can’t feel what you felt about the trauma of it all. 

Meagan: Okay, and I love that you point that out too because just as much as Cesarean birth can be healing and can be amazing, it can also have a lot of that trauma. Trauma, I think, is a completely valid word to use. It can be used to be described as traumatic. It can be described as hurtful. I was angry. I was angry when I walked myself down for my second C-section. I didn’t want that. That was not what I wanted. It was not what I planned. 

Yeah. Also, going into that it doesn’t always happen the way we want to. It can go both ways so that’s why I think sharing CBAC stories on this podcast is so important because we have to learn both sides of things. We have to know that Cesarean birth can be healing and it can be exactly what someone needs and it can also be traumatic and not what someone needs. I

Today’s episode is full of love. Meagan’s doula partner, Christin Carlson, joins as co-host today to hear their client, Janelle, share her beautiful VBAC story.

Janelle’s first baby was determined to stay frank breech even after two ECV attempts. Her water broke on its own before her scheduled date. In prep for her surgery, Janelle unexpectedly experienced vaginal cleansing. Though the surgery went well, it was not the introduction to motherhood Janelle was hoping for. She was also hit hard with postpartum depression. 

Janelle shares how she found The VBAC Link and became obsessed with all things VBAC prep. Surrounded by the most loving and empowering team, they helped her stay steady when labor was most intense. Even though it was harder than she imagined it would be, Janelle was able to dig deep and achieve the unmedicated VBAC she desired. 

Vaginal Cleansing Article
Postpartum Depression Article
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

02:40 Janelle’s PPD experience
07:25 Janelle’s stories
12:06 Arriving at the hospital
14:05 Janelle’s C-section
17:00 VBAC preparation
19:24 Appendicitis and second pregnancy
24:22 Going into labor
27:35 Laboring at the hospital
30:30 Transition
34:21 Achieving her VBAC
38:47 The power of a supportive partner
43:53 What is vaginal cleansing?
50:26 Symptoms of postpartum depression

Meagan: Hello, everybody. You guys, today I have a very special episode to my heart because this is one of our own doula clients here in Utah and another even more special thing is that this is my partner, Kristen who ended up attending her birth, is co-hosting. Hello, Christin and Janelle. 

Janelle: Hello. 

Christin: Hi. 

Meagan: How are you guys today? 

Janelle: So good, so good. 

Meagan: Before we started recording, we started talking about time and how fast things are going. You guys, I mean I think you probably know if you are pregnant or have a newborn in your arms how fast time goes, but really, holy cow. We were with Janelle, we just talked about, 8 months ago from the time we are recording which is wild to think about. 

Janelle: So weird. So weird. It’s crazy. 

Christin: It seems like it was a couple of weeks ago. 

Janelle: Yeah, it’s not fair. 

Meagan: I know. How have things been? How have you been going with postpartum?

Janelle: Things have been really good and I think that’s one of the things that pushed me to want a VBAC so badly is I was hoping for a better postpartum experience. I had pretty severe postpartum depression with my first baby and I felt like having the VBAC would be some sort of heavenly gateway into not having postpartum depression. In the beginning, that was true, but I ended up still having some of it. Things are good now, though. 

Meagan: Good. I actually love that you touched on that because I think that sometimes especially after a traumatic Cesarean or a traumatic experience that did lead to postpartum depression or anxiety or anything like that, that can be a big motivator for a different experience. I love that you talked about, “Well, it was a better experience, but I still had this a little bit. I’ve had to work through that.” I’m glad that you’re good now, but even sometimes when we have a different experience, we have similar things. 

So it’s important to recognize that. I love that you just pointed that out. 

Janelle: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. 

Meagan: Before we get going into the episode, do you have any tips on tackling that the second time around too? How were your feelings about things when you were starting to feel it and see it creep in? 

02:40 Janelle’s PPD experience
Janelle: Well, with both experiences, it did creep in just like you said, but with my daughter, it felt really dark really fast. She was my first baby and then with my first son, the VBAC, it was kind of a little bit sneaky. I guess just having someone on your support team. For me, it was

We can hardly believe that we have recorded 300 episodes! Meagan brings Julie on the podcast today to take a look back at how The VBAC Link Podcast started, the growth they have both experienced along the way and where they are now. 

Since 2018, we have shared laughter, tears, heartache, and joy through your stories. Thank you to all of our listeners and guests for your support. Together, we are changing the birth world for the better through all of our ripple effects!

Meagan promises to continue the journey and bring you more powerful stories. It’s been quite the ride and we don’t plan on stopping anytime soon!

Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

01:11 Review of the Week
04:05 How the podcast started
12:09 How the podcast has grown 
16:40 Changes in birth
22:11 Celebrating differences within the birth community
28:45 Challenges bring growth
35:35 Julie’s photography

Meagan: Hello, you guys. Today is a very, very exciting– for me at least and I’m sure for Julie– episode because it’s the 300th episode. 300 and Julie is here with me because I couldn’t share this exciting episode without her. 

Julie: I cannot believe it. I seriously cannot believe it. So wild. 

Meagan: It’s so crazy. 300 episodes and we’ve had so many other crazy things like special episodes so it might even be more than 300, but it is the 300th on my form and I’m really, really excited. We want to share more about where we are today but also recap a little bit about where The VBAC Link started. I know we have a lot of listeners who have joined us in more recent years. We started in 2018. 2018, is that right? 

Julie: Yeah. 

Meagan: So we have a lot of new listeners who maybe don’t know our full story and know what we are and what we’re doing and all of the things. 

01:11 Review of the Week
Meagan: So we are going to be talking about that, but we do have a Review of the Week. I’m going to share that. It is from Michelle. She listed this on Google and it says, “Thank you so much for inspiring and informing me through the journeys of VBAC mamas. As I prepare for my VBAC in October after a recent traumatic Cesarean, I feel empowered, motivated, and healed knowing that there are so many women who are out there preparing in the same way that I am. I recommend this podcast to all mamas.” 

Now, this was about a year ago so I’m assuming Michelle has had her baby. So Michelle, if you are still with us, let us know how it went and as always, if you wouldn’t mind leaving us a review, it helps all of these other Women of Strength find these amazing stories and information as well as our blog and all of the wonderful things I believe that we provide. You can do that on Google. You can do it on Apple Podcasts. You can even send us a message or on Spotify. I mean, really wherever you are listening should have a ranking– Google, Apple, or wherever you are, we would love your review. 

04:05 How the podcast started
Meagan: Okay, Julie. 300. 

Julie: 300. I can’t believe it. Do you know what is wild? It’s so funny because I left. I’m using air quotes right now. I know people can’t see it. I “left”. It’s been 2 years. 3 years, oh my gosh. 3. I left in 2021. 

Meagan: It has. 2021. You did. 

Julie: My gosh. Isn’t that wild? When is this episode airing? 

Meagan: May. 

Julie: May, so it will almost be 3 years. It’s really funny because life is definitely much easier now and more manageable, but there are parts of me that still feel very strongly connected to The VBAC Link. I appreciate you for including me and having me back on the podcast and things like that but it’s also sometimes so weird when I’m scrolling through Facebook and I see The VBAC Link recommended, sometimes people talk about Meagan and Julie still which is so cool, but also it’s sometimes like Meagan Heaton has The VBAC Link and it’s really amazing and she d

Katie joins us today to tell us about her two birth experiences in Germany. Although she strongly advocated for herself during her first birth, Katie was extremely mistreated. Her labor and horrible C-section experience left her with intense PTSD straining her relationship with both her baby and her husband. 

Katie knew that if she wanted to have another baby, she had to plan for an out-of-hospital birth. She continued to advocate for herself by not only learning the evidence but by showing it to providers and defending it. Though she wasn’t able to find a supportive backup hospital, Katie labored beautifully at home with her husband, doula, and midwife until she knew it was time to transfer. 

When she transferred, Katie was able to go to the hospital she wanted to go to and was finally treated with respect. Her wishes were honored and she felt heard. Though this labor was also over 40 hours and had its own unexpected twists, Katie experienced so much healing from her VBAC. She was able to achieve the glorious feeling she hoped she would have from a home birth even in the hospital.  

TOLAC in Germany Article
Evidence-Based Birth Blog: Friedman Curve
Informed Pregnancy - code: vbaclink424
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

04:41 Review of the Week
07:27 Katie’s stories
11:14 Start of labor
16:55 Going to the hospital
20:22 Interventions
29:44 Katie’s C-section
32:06 Preparing for VBAC
34:34 Second pregnancy
42:01 Labor begins
47:11 Getting support from her birth team
50:12 Transferring to the hospital
53:32 Feeling intense scar pain
56:23 Asking for the vacuum
58:42 Katie’s advice for listeners
1:01:47 The Friedman Curve
1:06:16 Trusting your intuition
1:08:56 Doula support


Meagan: Hello, Women of Strength! We have a story for you today where a mama gave birth in Germany. So I love, love, love when we have out-of-the-country birth stories because we often get messages from people outside of the country wondering if VBAC is still possible and the answer is YES. 100% it is possible and we have our friend Katie today. Hello, Katie!

Katie: Hi.

Meagan: She is going to just be sharing her story showing that it is possible to VBAC. Now, one of the things that I actually really love about Katie’s story is that it shows that things can change, and even when things change it doesn’t have to be bad. I sit in that because I personally wanted to birth out of the hospital and when I was in labor, in my mind, if I had to transfer, I was for a little while telling myself that that was a bad thing. And that it wouldn’t happen, or people would be looking down, or whatever. 

I was spiraling. I was just going through a moment in labor. But something that stood out to me with Katie’s, is she talks about how after a really long labor at home, planned home birth, her intuition, which we talk about a lot, knew that she needed to make another choice in her labor and that was to go to the hospital. Right, Katie?

Katie: Exactly. Yep.

Meagan: And so I love that we can talk about how plans can change and that doesn’t mean it has to be the be-all end-all. Is that how you say it?

Katie: Yeah.

Meagan: It doesn’t mean it has to be over or it doesn’t mean your chances of VBAC are done. If you are planning a home birth and you make the choice, or even if it was medically necessary, like sometimes it is, right? That doesn’t mean that it has to be bad. And so I love that part about her story and that she listened to her intuition. 

And then also another highlight, is that intervention happened, right? And that sometimes in this community we fear the intervention. I understand why we don’t all usually want the intervention, we just want it to be left alone. But sometimes intervention comes into play and sometimes those interventions help us get the birth that we wanted. 

And so I’m just going to end there because I want Katie to be able to shar

Jenny’s story is one of pure gratitude and joy. She is so grateful to be a mother, for the miracle of her pregnancies, for a breech baby who flipped late in her second pregnancy, for the chance to experience labor, and for a beautiful, successful VBAC. 

Jenny talks about all of the ways she prepped and how she even had to travel over a mountain pass during a snowstorm while in labor to get to her VBAC-supportive provider. Meagan shares some statistics about breech birth and why we so badly need more providers trained in vaginal breech delivery.

A long-time listener of The VBAC Link Podcast, Jenny shares her story with so much joy hoping to inspire other Women of Strength just as she was inspired by so many others. 

PubMed Article: Risk of Vaginal Breech Birth vs. Planned Cesarean
Heads Up Documentary
Informed Pregnancy - code: vbaclink424
Needed Website
How to VBAC: The Ultimate Prep Course for Parents
Full Transcript under Episode Details 

02:58 Jenny’s first pregnancy with gestational diabetes
06:10 Low amniotic fluid, breech presentation, and a C-section
10:22 Healing in different ways
14:16 Getting pregnant again and doing all of the VBAC prep
22:52 Gestational diabetes test
27:59 Breech at 34 weeks
32:33 A head-down baby
35:11 Traveling the mountain pass in a snowstorm
39:43 Checking into the hospital
45:42 Fetal ejection reflex
49:20 Pushing out baby and postpartum blood loss
57:10 Jenny’s advice for breech mamas
1:00:22 Statistics on vaginal birth versus planned Cesarean for breech

Meagan: Hey, hey. You are listening to The VBAC Link Podcast and we have another amazing episode for you today. We have our friend, Jenny. Hello, Jenny. 

Jenny: Hi. 

Meagan: How are you today?

Jenny: I’m good. I’m so excited. This is just– I am reeling actually that this is actually happening today. 

Meagan: I am so excited that it is. You know, it’s so fun to get submissions in and then when we send them out, people are like, “Wait, what? Really?” 

Jenny: That is exactly how I felt. I was like, “This is never going to happen, but I’m just going to go for it. I’m just going to submit it.” I mean, The VBAC Link was such a huge part of my whole story and just to be on here and hopefully share something inspirational with somebody else, hopefully it helps somebody. That’s my goal today. 

Meagan: It will. It’s absolutely going to. The whole podcast, sorry if you guys hear any noise in the background by the way. I’m getting a new furnace today and he’s installing it downstairs literally below me. So sorry if there’s any extra background noise. But this podcast is literally something that I wish so badly that I had when I was going through my VBAC. 

Obviously, that’s one of the reasons why we were inspired to create it, but every single story, even though they all might have similarities or even be in similar places, they are so different and unique and I love that. I love that almost 300 episodes in, we can prove that every birth is different. 

It’s true. Every birth is different and you went through a lot with your births. I mean, I’ve got her list right here of things. You guys, this is going to be a jam-packed episode. She’s got gestational diabetes, breech, advanced maternal age, and trusting the process. We’re going to talk about traveling literally over a mountain pass. She drove over a mountain pass to find what she needed so I’m so excited to dive into your episode in just one minute after the intro. 
02:58 Jenny’s first pregnancy with gestational diabetes
Meagan: Okay, Jenny. Here we go. You are– are you ready? Are you ready? She is dancing in the background. You can’t see her but she is literally dancing. You can see she is so excited to share this amazing story with you. 

Jenny: I am so ready. Okay, so let me go back four years to my C-section baby. I can’t believe it’s been that long. Being a mom was never in the cards for me. I’m just going to sta