King of the Middle Chris Mohr and Michael Joel Green

— Intro: Update on our latest projects



— Michael discusses his new short story collection, ‘Currents’



— There’s an audio drama for one of Michael’s short stories / Discussion about the making-of a few recent audio dramas



— Michael tells a story about the recording session for his short, ‘Landings’



— We’re scared to mention Jesus to family, friends, and co-workers. Why?



— Michael answers the question first



— Chris gives his reasons / He traces the atmosphere in the workplace from early schooldays though Hollywood



— Why are we afraid to share about Jesus with our friends? / Michael comments first regarding his extended family / The struggle to develop faith transparency and articulating the complex aspects of our faith



— Matthew 7:1 "Do not judge, or you too will be judged,” is often quoted out of context / Our egos are on the line we associate with Christianity / Exclusivity doctrines of Christianity can be off-putting to our friends



— A new Netflix Christmas film exemplifies the modern mindset: The world centers around us and not Jesus: This mindset is what we’re up against when talking about Jesus



— Christmas is actually a very hard time to share about Jesus when you look at the true message of His sacrifice for us / Chris has struggled in recent years with how far he allows secular holiday narratives into his family’s advent season



— Even waiting until well after the holidays to share our faith will still be tough because we bump against ego issues



— In the recent past, it was mainstream to be “Christian” / It’s riskier to talk about faith in the 21st century



— People in the past associated with Christianity even if they weren’t practicing Christians / Our faith-sharing muscles were weak coming into modern times



— Chris reacts to recent rules in California regarding lockdowns on church gatherings / We have a lot to do to get the name of Jesus out to the secular world



— Matthew 10:33: If we deny God, He’ll deny us / Jesus knew the fleshly battle against fear and laziness when sharing about God and Himself and warned us to fight the urge to be silent



— The fact that we’re afraid to speak about Jesus to those we know translates directly to our lack of speaking about faith in our art



— What steps can we take to counter our lackluster witnessing? / Michael answers: generic mentions of “God” versus saying Jesus’ name



— Chris warns that we’re going to be attacked (as Jesus was) for telling the truth



— Shared humanity is a key to breaking down faith-sharing boundaries / Chris mentions an upcoming story where he starts the story by writing about shared humanity then reveals Jesus as the story unravels



— Engaging with an audience through our art / A recent story about a person who posted a negative comment on KotM’s Facebook page



— We are called to be light in the darkness, love others



— Wishing everyone a great rich season



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Michael’s Website and Amazon page

https://michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com

Gaetana shares about overcoming childhood tragedy and finding a hopeful future glorifying God through her work and art.

00:09 Intro

01:04 Gaetana introduces herself: Her early life, surviving tragedy

03:10 An answered prayer kicks off her musical vocation

05:37 College years and beyond

07:42 Early career back in Seattle / joining the Seattle Rock Orchestra

08:48 Gaetana meets Nancy Wilson of Heart / Being tongue-tied around famous musicians

12:09 The importance of (and payoff for) practicing / Ups and downs of helping others who look up to you when you’re a well-practiced artist / Setting boundaries

23:04 Gaetana’s day job balanced against time dedicated to her artistry

28:03 How Gaetana balances her faith-based work against her secular work with the Seattle Rock Orchestra and her day job / Relating to co-workers outside of the church

32:52 Gaetana’s Christian awakening as a child

36:12 We need to listen to those who disagree with us as Christians

38:06 Bringing people from the workplace to church / Relating to LGBTQ workmates when they come to church

41:45 What does Gaetana want to be remembered for in her work right now / What she learned from the tragedy she experienced in her youth

44:52 Michael mentions Alice Cooper’s reputation as a Christian in the music business

45:50 Gaetana’s contact info and upcoming work

47:21 Outro

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Gaetana Gravallese on Facebook:

https://www.facebook.com/The.Divine.Ms.G



Gaetana on Soundcloud here: 

https://soundcloud.com/gaetana-gravallese

AND here:

https://soundcloud.com/eachandall



SRO on Youtube. See a recent cover performance of The Beatles “And I Love Her” here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SzlWYbJCYc

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Youtube:

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCYhB_T8K03t8WO1XyvjaKWA



Chris’s Website

http://www.cmobmo.com



Michael’s Website and Amazon page

https://michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com/

— Intro



— Motivation for doing this episode / How are we dealing with hard societal issues as Christians? / Two of Chris’s soon-to-be-released stories (‘Blackface’ and ‘You’re a Meme One’)



— Michael’s quote from a former pastor in Seattle who said that we should be in a spot where both the far left and far right disagree with our views / Cancel culture is making it hard to have real conversations on heavy topics / Michael wrote a cancel-culture story recently called ‘The Umbrella Holders’ / The church is in a tough spot right now / Tolerance and egalitarianism today



— The value of a person isn’t separate from the value (or lack thereof) of his or her views / The recent John Wayne controversy––even the dead aren’t safe



— Contemporary stories are changing / Michael enjoys the show ’24’ and likes how it depicts the true sinfulness of all human beings (Romans 3:10: No one is righteous––not even one.)



— Michael wrote a story called ‘Iris’ recently: it’s a warning about giving up one’s power of decision-making for ease of living in this technological world / “Moral correctness” is being separated from truthfulness (ends justify the means)



— Racism: Is it an unpardonable sin? The worst sin? / Look at our other sins / How do we write stories that empathize with those on the other side of the spectrum from us?



— How do we reflect these rough issues honestly in our work? / Pitfalls if we aren’t careful / Story Chris is working on about a confrontation between a hard-right shop owner and hard-left activist



— Yelp’s new anti-racism designation for businesses / Chris’s shopkeeper story doesn’t go the way you might think



— Ends justify the means is dangerous; Oscar-winning filmmaker Michael Moore said something troubling a few years ago / Manipulation of truth is now commonplace in the media / The Christian artist standard for truth / We don’t get to make “comfort food” for our audiences



— Scary stat on how susceptible we are to fake news stories / More on Yelp’s troubling new anti-racism policy: false narratives might be permitted / Michael expounds on God’s view agains an ‘ends justify the means’ mentality



—  Election Day a week away: God’s establishment of governing authorities / We vote for policies we believe benefit all / Politics seem to have replaced religion / Michael knows someone who wished a political leader were dead



— The Christian artist’s fear of outing himself on these hard-hitting societal issues



— Why are we taking a risk by outing ourselves? / We are aware of our whiteness / Education is a big concern at the root of many societal problems / We don’t cancel people for their past bad acts / We don’t categorically dismiss an entire class of employees because their industry at-large has done some bad things / Where does Chris fall in all of this?



— Matthew 7:16: You will know them by their fruit / Identity politics is a worldview––it’s incompatible with faith in God / Love and compassion is the call for believers, not politics / Our art must reflect this and seek to change our hearts and teach us all grace



— Chris mentions a short story in a secular book that deals honestly with the fallout of CRT: ‘Friday Black’ By Nana Kwame Adjei-Brenyah / We have to account to God for what we do in our work / Link to article Michael recommended



— Outro

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http://www.cmobmo.com



Michael’s Amazon page

https://www.amazon.com/Michael-Joel-Green/e/B007SCU7DS

— Intro



— Chris reveals his current financial difficulties and grapples with the Biblical call to be the provider for his household / Are continuous closed doors to his old career and current job searches signs that God wants him to keep going as an artist? / How the immense pressure of school debt continues to impact Chris’s vocational calling



— The benefits of going back to school / What we learned from a financially inviable project that helped re-direct career focus / Chris still struggles with whether to quit pursuing art as a vocation



— Michael mentions a famous quote about insanity and repetition / The parable of the persistent widow (Luke 18:1–8)



— Michael’s vision as an artist when he graduated college / The importance of a healthy ego / The need for reliance on a team and prayer to accomplish an artistic vocation / Losing passion for art as a sign to move on from it



— Quitting seriously comes to mind when our choices cost us significantly 



— Augustine quote about trusting God and doing what you want to do / The Father will redirect you if you’re on the wrong track / Michael made a decision to be more responsible financially at cost to his art (but without sacrificing art entirely)



— The call to provide for one’s family: “But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.” (Timothy 5:8 ESV)



— Chris mentions how some folks have it was easier when stepping into established family businesses / It’s hard finding work in certain fields like education, which may be due to certain political movements of the time



— Complication of artistic pursuits when married into Asian American families (as Michael and Chris both are) / Why Chris isn’t pursuing law work post-law school / Is it sin to refuse certain kinds of secular work? / Asking the Father to fail steps down wrong paths and being willing to truly hear what God is speaking to you regarding what he wants you to do



— One of our favorite pastors, Francis Chan, speaks often about following the Father’s call when He asks you to do hard things in your vocation / Chris’s near-future move to regroup and hear God’s call



— Chris’s moods and hope were often built on sand and subject to the ups and downs of career successes and failures 



— Michael’s experience trying to leave Los Angeles, prevailing state political movements add pressure to leave



— Be on guard against entitlement and unrealistic expectations / Count the costs of your career choices up front rather than after-the-fact / 



— God can provide amazing things (like a spouse) despite some of our vocational choices that may have made lives more difficult / Michael has more peace these days and doesn’t put as much pressure to succeed on himself



— Chris’s desire to find a wife was hindered for a long time by a misguided sense of the importance of success as an artist / God provided a wife and spoke to him clearly about it / When we obey the Father, amazing things happen



— Preview of a future episode that will deal with why we shouldn’t choose political sides but rather God’s side



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Podcast Page

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http://www.cmobmo.com



Michael’s Website and Amazon page

https://michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com/

00:10 Intro



01:36 Michael had a medical scare recently: He had a spot on his kidney



04:37 Chris: Impact of cancer diagnosis a decade ago / Questions about his career that surfaced



08:20 Michael’s triumphant reaction to good news / Imagining the worse case and how limited time on earth would have changed his POV on work and life



15:02 Impact of ongoing everyday ups and downs on Michael



18:44 For Chris, marriage was a huge shake-up in his life / Chris’s pre-marriage idols vs what God has revealed to him recently



27:25 Michael recalls a time in the recent past when a good job opportunity presented itself but was going to misdirect his calling



31:31 Michael wrote an autobiography at that time of his life



35:24 Michael left a good job in the Bay Area to continuing pursuing his artistic calling as a writer in LA



43:02 Chris’s reflection on the uncertainty of that time period seven years ago



43:22 The benefits of working with folks in jobs outside your ministry calling (the bonds of friendship) 



48:30 The dangers of tying our identity to our success = we’re more susceptible to mood swings that accompany life’s highs & lows



50:11 Heaps of disappointment tied to our lack of success can influence our Christian witness / Tip: Look around and see all the good things that God has done (and is doing) for us



53:25 How do we determine if it’s time to quit the intense pursuit of our ‘perceived’ calling?



55:23 Outro



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Youtube Channel

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Chris’s Website

http://www.cmobmo.com



Michael’s Website and Amazon page

https://michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com/

https://www.amazon.com/Michael-Joel-Green/e/B007SCU7DS/ref=dp_byline_cont_pop_ebooks_1

00:10 Villains Michael loves / Heroes he dislikes



02:16 Why this topic? 



03:24 A well-written villain needs a good backstory / Villains often express hidden truths about ourselves



06:03 Goodness can be a bore / We’re in a battle with good and evil constantly  / Villains can reveal our own wrong thinking



08:23 Why do so many people dislike Superman? / Parallel to our false view of heaven as a “boring place”



11:03 Well-written villains allow artists to reflect real-life dynamics



14:03 Both heroes and villains must be well-written / Chris offers a comparison between cliched disasters and badly written villains



17:34 Who are some of Michael’s favorite bad guys? / Why are we still talking about Darth Vader in the 21st century? / Michael recalls a hurtful character in Dickens’s ‘Great Expectations’ / The newest Joker film / How Darth Vader reflects our own Christian walk / Why we are drawn to redemption stories / Brief mention of ‘Tale of Two Cities’



23:13 At the turn of the century, darker flawed heroes became more in vogue / Is the 21st century shift in our collective moral values responsible for what we see in modern stories?



25:47 The perils of modern anti-heroes / Amazon's ‘The Boys’ / Christians can use evil characters to depict absolute evil / Rise of Skywalker is a good example of modern use of pure good and pure evil characters



29:50 Ravi Zacharias had a good illustration for absolute evil / Characters, whether good or bad, must face hard struggles



32:03 Warning for writers when they move into morally murky waters / The 21st century has ushered in a more mainstream acceptance of anti-heroes and flawed heroes / Why Christians have to work hard to write honest bad guys / We may lead folks astray if we’re not careful



36:03 Michael is a big fan of ‘No Country for Old Men’ / Christians need to take a hopeful spin on the modern anti-hero tale / The evil committed by Joseph’s brothers (when they sold him into slavery) is a warning to us: we the audience aren’t always intended to be aligned with the hero of the story



42:07 Chris weighs in on the filmed version of ‘No Country For Old Men’ / The end of the film is misunderstood by many believers who dislike the story / Similar conclusion in a film called ‘Jindabyne’ / Why Chris likes films where the villain gets away in the end



47:10 When we acknowledge right and wrong in our storytelling, we can further expose absolute truths



47:46 Michael mentions the film ‘A Simple Plan’ where the main character who turns bad realizes the change / When bad guys realize their evil—even if they don’t turn from darkness—it can be useful to reveal honest sinfulness / Stories that depict true evil can help us prepare for the temptations



52:11 Paul warned us that we are always in a battle against our flesh / Characters both good and bad must wrestle with their flesh and soul



55:02 Chris addendum: Superman and traditional good characters have a place in modern storytelling / We must show the moral dilemmas that purely good characters face / Superheroes do have weaknesses: the normal humans they love who cannot defend themselves



59:46 The modern film anti-hero is rooted in the 20th century, not merely the turn of the 21st century

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Video essay: The de-mythification of heroes (WARNING: May contain R-rated language):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pT75YHqlD9k



Facebook

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Chris’s Website

http://www.cmobmo.com



Michael’s Website and Amazon page

https://michaeljoelgreen.wordpress.com/