Daebak! A Kdrama Podcast Alisa Rivera

After an extended break we're back with our discussion of the underrated BL gem Be My Favorite starring Krist & Gawin/Fluke. Kudos to director Waasuthep Ketpetch for producing one of the best BLs we've ever watched and one of our fave dramas of any genre from 2023.

TW/CW for sexual assault, intimate relationship violence and bullying




Spoiler alert: This episode contains spoilers for F4 Thailand, the 2010 Boys Over Flowers, the 2005 Hana Yori Dango and the 2001 Meteor Garden.




A year after we recorded our Boys Over Flowers episode, we’re back with a deep dive on F4 Thailand: Boys Over Flowers, the latest addition to the Hana Yori Dango universe. Even though Melanie, Katherine and Vickey had sworn never to watch another adaptation, Alisa knew from the first episode that F4 Thailand was something special and she managed to pull everyone back in. In today’s episode we’re joined by our good friend RK (known as @roh_tweets on Twitter). 





1:56: Background on the Hana Yori Dango universe and the special relationship our podcast has with this franchise: our Boys Over Flowers episode accounts for more than half the total listens on our podcast (which is nuts).





7:31: Episode discussion begins. We all agree this production is top notch and a big surprise given the quality of Boys Over Flowers and other adaptations.





18:40: Melanie and Vickey discuss key changes to the original story made by F4 Thailand, such as the male lead being drugged and photographed instead of the female lead. Alisa points out that it’s a different type of story because of how the production is coloring in the lines of the plot. 





25:16: Mel says that one of her favorite aspects of watching the show is the fan interactions and dissections of the storytelling that happen after every episode. It’s on another level because of how rich F4 Thailand’s storytelling is  (Alisa agrees).





26:42: We dive into the meaning of the honey badger stuffed animal from episode 6 and why it’s not only hugely important thematically, it’s an example of the symbolism that’s threaded throughout the narrative.





29:38: RK points out that many if not most of the viewers are bringing knowledge of previous adaptations to their viewing of F4 Thailand and that a lot of the reward of watching is in comparing and contrasting with previous versions. It not just what this drama is doing, it’s what it’s doing compared with the other versions that exist. 





34:30: Melanie and Alisa discuss the costuming and how it supports storytelling (Thyme’s half animal print Prada shirts and Kavin’s teddy bear sweater)





36:19: We dive into a long discussion of Thyme, Gorya and the other characters and how they are different (in some cases very different!) from previous iterations. We agree that all of the characters are far more complex than in other versions. 





1:03:43: Vickey says that she doesn’t have second lead syndrome for Ren in this version even though he’s likable because the writing makes it clear that Gorya and Thyme are the correct couple (the rest of us agree).  





1:13:29: Discussion of Lita and how similar she is to Gorya and what the story is trying to do with those parallels.





1:15:59: We talk about sex! As it how it exists in the manga vs. F4 Thailand and whether or not there is any sexual energy/desire between Thyme and Gorya (Alisa spends a lot of time hyperventilating over the episode 5 storage room scene) 






1:22:57: We dive into the incredible storytelling of episode 9, especially the funeral scene and how Lita falls in love with a Thyme that exists because of the influence of Gorya. (the star bandaid!)





1:28:47: Alisa points out that the social critique is foregrounded in this version much more than previous versions (the 1% reference in the episode 9 title comes from Occupy Wall Street). RK points out that class struggle is part of the entire franchise but is much more explicit in this version. We also briefly discuss how awful the Thai king is in real life (google if you want your jaw to drop) and a political critique in a scene with Gorya’s parents. 





1:32:21: We discuss episode 7 and That Scene where Thyme explodes. That was a hugely polarizing s

TW/CW for sexual assault, intimate relationship violence and bullying





Spoiler alert: This episode contains spoilers for F4 Thailand, 2010 Boys Over Flowers, 2005 Hana Yori Dango and 2001 Meteor Garden.




A year after we recorded our Boys Over Flowers episode, we’re back with our second deep dive on F4 Thailand: Boys Over Flowers, the latest addition to the Hana Yori Dango universe. We all agree that this show is already a modern classic and is by far the best adaptation of this problematic teen franchise.




If you haven’t already listened to our deep dive on episodes 1-9, you can listen here: https://audioboom.com/posts/8038424-f4-thailand-boys-over-flowers-episodes-1-9 





1:58 Background on the Hana Yori Dango universe





4:42 Episode discussion begins. 





5:47: We discuss the huge challenges that director Patha Thongpan faced while making F4 Thailand, which he shared with fans on social media. They include budget, PPL, covid, and not enough episodes to fully tell the story. Despite any shortfalls in the second half of the narrative, we all love this adaptation and think it’s a modern classic and the best Hana Yori Dango adaptation ever. 





9:35: Katherine makes a bold statement and declares Thailand's F4 entrance scene to be even better than the iconic Korean entrance scene. The rest of us agree!





11:50: Vickey also makes a bold statement and declares the Thailand’s F4 to be the best looking of all the adaptations and Alisa gives and AMEN to that 





13:02: Alisa reads a Francois Truffault quote she tweeted on Great Flawed Films that applies to F4 Thailand being a Great Flawed Drama: 




“I want to define what I mean by a “great flawed film.” It is simply a masterpiece that has aborted, an ambitious project weakened by some errors in the making: a fine screenplay that is “unshootable,” an inadequate cast, a shooting contaminated by hatred or blinded by love, or an inordinate gap between the original intention and the final execution. This notion of “great flawed films” can apply only to the works of a great director—one who has demonstrated that in other circumstances he can achieve perfection. In an overall view of his achievements, a true cinéphile may, on occasion, prefer such a director’s “great flawed film” to one of his acknowledged masterpieces—thereby preferring, for example, A King in New York to The Gold Rush, or The Rules of the Game to Grand Illusion. If one accepts the concept that a perfect execution often conceals the film-maker’s intentions, one must admit that the “great flawed film” may reveal more vividly the picture’s raison d’etre.

“I might also point out that, while the masterpiece does not necessarily arouse the viewer’s emotions, the “great flawed film” frequently does—which accounts for the fact that the latter is more apt to become what the American critics call a “cult film” than is the masterpiece.

“I would add that the “great flawed film” is often harmed by an excess of sincerity. Paradoxically, this sincerity makes it clearer to the aficionados, but more obscure to the general public, which has been conditioned to absorb mixtures that give priority to gimmicks rather than to straightforward confessions.”



15:32: We discuss a photo shared by one of the F4 Thailand writers of a whiteboard where they brainstormed themes for the drama. With a special shoutout to @BeLight_21on Twitter for translating it for English speakers. https://twitter.com/BeLight_21/status/1513346654878928896  





17:47: Melanie mentions that the production had to incorporate 36 different sponsors with specific requirements into the storytelling and how it impacted the drama, especially in the second half as the number of sponsors grew (including the MJ KFC ad, lawd). 





19:11: We discuss how key staff dropped out of the project along the way, including their Director of Photography which is huge because a big part of

TW/CW for non-consent, sexual assault, and intimate relationship violence 





Spoiler alert: This episode contains spoilers for scenes from the following dramas: Boys Over Flowers, F4 Thailand, Coffee Prince, My Lovely Sam Soon, Theory of Love, The Heirs, Cheese in the Trap, 2gether, KinnPorsche, Business Proposal, Her Private Life, Bad Buddy, Into the Ring, Semantic Error, Not Me, When the Weather is Fine, Reply 1988, The Smile Has Left Your Eyes and Dali and Cocky Prince.





There are detailed timestamps below so you can avoid spoilers for specific dramas. 




In this special episode, we dive into portrayals of consent in dramas and how they are (and aren’t) evolving. We’re joined by our good friends RK (known on Twitter as @roh_tweets) and Joanna Beveridge, a writer and producer from Australia who has just produced a k-drama inspired web series called No Ordinary Love (known on Twitter and Instagram as @jmbeveridge).





3:21: We discuss the definition of consent using information from RAINN, an advocacy organization for survivors of sexual violence. Learn more here: https://www.rainn.org/articles/what-is-consent 





4:46: We dive into why it’s important for us to discuss how consent is portrayed in dramas. In short: portrayals of consent influence real life.





8:39: But portrayals of non-consent or ambiguous consent can be emotionally gratifying for women and we discuss why that might be.





16:28: A description of the structure of our episode: we start with portrayals of non-consent and then work our way to non-verbal and verbal consent (note: we were pleasantly surprised by how many examples of good consent we were able to find!)





Non-Consent





17:27: Boys Over Flowers, ep. 2: https://youtu.be/jriP7H8zccU





22:03: Coffee Prince, ep. 11: Clip of scene: https://youtu.be/Og8YGgnyL2w. Full scene starts at 57:54: https://www.viki.com/videos/106809v-coffee-prince-episode-11. 





31:48: Theory of Love, Ep. 6, Part 1, 12:22, https://youtu.be/hNHUsihNjKo?t=742 





Ambiguous/Unclear Consent





36:48: Cheese in the Trap, ep. 8, 3:28  https://youtu.be/PLhsgLODLeQ?t=204 





38:55: The Heirs, ep 9: https://youtu.be/q_L0Ti_HY5I  





41:52: 2gether, ep, 9, 5:42  https://youtu.be/PWTgQKlwTJw?t=341 





Drunk/Drugged “Consent” (which is really non-consent)





48:41: If somebody is drunk or drugged to the point of being incapacitated they cannot consent and if someone has sex with a person who is incapacitated that is sexual assault. Unfortunately a lot of people don’t understand this.





50:29: KinnPorsche:




iQIYI https://www.iq.com/play/kinnporsche-the-series-la-forte-episode-4-fdr5lzz8x8 
Dramacool https://www1.dramacool.ee/kinnporsche-2022-episode-4.html 





Ep. 4: 48:00 Drugged sex scene (WARNING it’s explicit)
Ep. 5: Opening scene to 4:31
Ep. 5: 15:55-18:25 (WARNING: it’s explicit)
Ep. 6: 37:15-39:25 





1:02:50: Business Proposal: https://www.netflix.com/title/81509440 





Ep. 6, 51:00-53:00 
Ep. 7, 16:51- 17:37
Ep. 7. 18:52 - 20:33  
Ep. 7 43:30 - 47:00 





Clear Non-Verbal Consent





1:16:53: Her Private Life, ep. 9 https://youtu.be/66rkZDsXWCE





1:18:04: Bad Buddy, ep.5, 7:35: https://youtu.be/uFEmU3ORlLg?t=459





1:21:18: Into the Ring, ep. 10: https://youtu.be/Yc9iznYO2PY 





1:23:12: My Lovely Sam Soon, ep. 6, 15:28: https://youtu.be/pnLMXwi1-4o?t=928 





1:25:05: Dali and Cocky Prince, ep. 7: https://youtu.be/UJiFQNjGy3c





1:27:33 Brief discussion of It’s Okay to Not Be Okay, Ep. 3:  https://youtu.be/Mgd7mdRpCYg





Clear Verbal Consent





1:28:51 Semantic Error https://www.viki.com/tv/38375c 





Ep. 6, 9:32 
Ep. 6 15:35 
Ep. 6, 21:44 
Ep. 7, episode opening





1:36:10: Not Me Ep. 9, Part 1 https://youtu.be/Qk6yEbCa5EM?t=60 





1:43:12: When the Weather Is Fine, ep. 11:  https://youtu.be/OiBDB6aSScI





1:44:58: Reply 1988, ep. 11, 3:34, https://youtu.be/mDO2AMM9sxs?t=214 





1:48:42: The Smile Has Lef

Hi folks, in a departure from our usual deep dives, we start out the podcast with a non-spoiler discussion. Spoilers start at 32:45.

You can find RK on Twitter at @roh_tweets.

Here's where to follow us!





Our new channel on the Asian Dramas Discord Server: https://discord.gg/rpCg4JnTNy  
Twitter: @daebakpodcast1 
Instagram: @daebakpodcast1 
Reddit: www.reddit.com/user/Borinquena

There are SPOILERS for 2022 dramas in this episode. Check out the timestamps below to avoid discussions of specific shows.

Our podcast team had a mixed 2022. Some of us felt fed, some of us felt seriously let down by Korean shows this year and some of us fell in love with dramas in countries outside of Korea. 

5:35 My Liberation Notes

10:53 Extraordinary Attorney Woo

22:25 Little Women

24:30 Discussion of dramas with controversial endings (are writers doing this on purpose???)






25:18 2521

30:31 Big Mouth

32:55 Reborn Rich


43:58: Discussion of sageuks






46:48: Under the Queen’s Umbrella 

50:10: Bloody Heart 


56:41: Discussion of legal dramas (there were 20+ legal dramas in 2022!)






57:34 The Law Cafe

59:23 May it Please the Court


1:04:28: Non-Korean dramas: F4 Thailand opened the floodgates and we watched dramas from China, Japan and Taiwan as well.






1:06:48: Bad Buddy (Thailand)

1:07:05: Old Fashion Cupcake (Japan)

1:07:12: Love Between Fairy and Devil (China)

1:13:24: Not Me (Thailand)


1:14:40: We each got a chance to spotlight some favorite dramas we watched in 2022 regardless of whether the drama aired in 2022 

Jo’s Picks: 






1:16:28: Sound of Magic

1:20:34: Alchemy of Souls (and the controversial ending)


Vickey’s Picks






1:25:28: Crazy Love

1:29:44: Link: Eat, Love, Kill


Alisa’s Picks:






 1:34:10: Someday or One Day (Taiwan)

1:37:37: First Love: Hatsukoi (Japan)


Melanie’s Picks:






1:40:49: Shooting Stars

1:41:00: Yumi’s Cells S2


Katherine’s Picks:






 1:46:11: Boar Hunt, aka Hunted

1:46:56: The King of Pigs

1:47:53: Summer Strike

1:49:15: Glitch


RK’s Picks






 1:50:04: Political Fever

1:51:44: Bad and Crazy