Mystics and Muons Mystics and Muons

Phil McLemore shares his journey from Catholicism to Mormonism to a deeper spiritual practice through an awakening mediated by meditation and yoga. He discusses his experiences with Catholicism and the doubts that led him to explore other religions. He explains how he found Mormonism and how it initially provided him with a sense of purpose and transformation. Eventually after a severe accident and ineffective priesthood blessings, he turned to meditation for relief from chronic pain.



Through meditation, he had a spiritual awakening and a deeper understanding of the true nature of God. He also discusses the limitations of Mormonism and the lack of emphasis on inner spirituality within the church. The conversation explores the idea that there is an infinite, formless, and changeless reality that constitutes the essence of our being. The purpose of life is to discover and awaken to this reality, which requires direct experience and knowledge beyond the mind. The integration of this formless reality into the world of form is seen as essential for the full realization of the purpose of life.



The conversation explores the balance between personal exploration and guidance in spiritual journeys, the potential benefits and drawbacks of psychedelics, and the integration of mystical experiences into daily life. Gabe and Phil discuss the importance of character development and Christ-like living as the ultimate goal of spiritual awakening. They also touch on the misinterpretation of mystical experiences and the need for discerning integration. The conversation concludes with a focus on the integration of the kingdom of God within oneself and among others.



Phil's Written Works:

Becoming the Beloved

Hindering the Saints - Taking Away the Key of Knowledge

The Yoga of Christ



Phil's Facebook Group:

Inner Path



Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check out

Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins:



Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:

Interview with Donald Hoffman

Interview with Bernardo Kastrup

Discussion with Bernardo Kastrup on Entropy



Please rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!



Chapters

00:00 Introduction

01:42 Phil's Background in Catholicism

06:04 Religion's Burden on Children

07:44 Phil's Introduction to Buddhism

08:58 Phil's Life in Mormonism as a CES Employee and Military Chaplain

11:39 Phil's Work in Apologetics

15:52 Phil's Injury, Chronic Pain, and Ineffective Priesthood Blessings

17:55 Being Rescued from Chronic Pain by Meditation and Yoga

21:28 Spiritual Experiences in Mormonism versus Mystical Experiences in Meditation

23:48 Mormonism's Conceptualization of God versus Direct Experience

25:30 Did Joseph Smith have Mystical Experiences?

31:44 Learning with Deepak Chopra and Teaching Mormons the Meditative Path

36:16 Transition from Orthodox Mormonism to Christian Mysticism

39:19 Why is Meditation not Taught in Mormonism?

44:34 Have the Modern Day Apostles and Prophets had Mystical Experiences?

47:00 What is Awakening?

55:30 What do Mystical Experiences Feel Like?

01:03:20 Rethinking Atonement and Resurrection

01:11:29 Gradual versus Sudden Spiritual Awakenings

01:13:42 How Mystical Experiences Feel Somatically

01:18:24 Suffering as a Catalyst for Awakening

01:19:18 Morality, Substances, Polyamory and Spiritual Paths

01:31:47 Our Innate Divine Ability to Find the Right Path

01:33:18 Psychedelics

01:44:54 Intention, Interpretation of Experience, and Integration

01:50:57 Joseph Smith's Integration of his Spiritual Experiences

01:52:25 Second Comforter and End Times Groups, and the Dangers of Seeking Mystical Experiences

02:00:30 Phil's Summary and Closing Advice, The Kingdom of God, Christ

Gabe and Stephen discuss Plato as an influence for Joseph Smith and Mormonism. Stephen describes his journey tracing the roots of Mormonism, and how that led him to research Plato and Christian Platonism. They also discuss defining hermeticism, as well as the possibility that Plato and Joseph Smith were drawing from the same perfect form of spiritual philosophy and adapting it in their own way, rather than Plato necessarily influencing Joseph Smith. Finally, they discuss whether this parallel between Platonism and Mormonism is faith affirming or faith challenging.



Links

Stephen's Presentation - Joseph Smith and the Ancient Religion: Or Where Was Zerahemla

https://alexandria.ucsb.edu/downloads/v118rd789

Stephen's Dissertation - The Fulness of the Gospel: Christian Platonism and the Origins of Mormonism



Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check out

Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins:



Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:

Interview with Donald Hoffman

Interview with Bernardo Kastrup

Discussion with Bernardo Kastrup on Entropy



Please rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!



Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Stephen's Background

05:08 Gabe's Exposure to Philosophy at BYU and his Ensuing Faith Crisis

06:14 Tracing Mormonism's Roots

09:02 The Refiner's Fire by John Brooke

14:03 The Challenges of Defining Hermeticism

17:02 The Problem with Presentism

21:03 The Unifying Potential of the Mystical Experience in Understanding History

25:12 Have We Cut Ourselves off from Gnosis Today?

28:19 Plato

31:44 Defining Neoplatonism

34:50 Theurgy

36:08 Love-Hate Relationship Between Plato and Christianity

39:17 Platonic Influence on Joseph Smith

44:35 The Divide Between God and Man, Christ as Savior vs Christ as Way-Shower

52:16 Quaker Beliefs on Christ as a Mystic

54:30 Did Plato Influence Joseph Smith, or Did They Both Access the Same Space?

56:47 Mystical Experiences

01:07:25 Paradoxes and Plato's Cave

01:09:50 Plato and Joseph Smith - Faith Affirming or Deconstructing?

01:13:05 If Christ Showed up Today, Would he be more Platonist, Buddhist, or Christian?

01:21:44 Stephen's Spiritual Experiences

01:23:48 Is Mormonism a Religion, or is it "All Truth"?

01:32:40 Following your Intuition

I'm joined this episode with the creators behind EntheoMagus, Cody Noconi, Brandon Crockett, and Alex Criddle. EntheoMagus is a short documentary exploring the indications that entheogens, or psychedelics, were used in early Mormonism, particularly in the group experiences in Kirtland, OH. We discuss Cody, Brandon, and Alex's backgrounds, where they stand with regard to Mormonism, and their motivation behind this project.

We also discuss the basics behind psychedelics and what is known as the mystical experience, a state of consciousness that is accessible both through endogenous (without substances) as well as exogenous (with substances) means.

I ask them the spiritual implications behind psychedelics producing this experience, as well as the implications for Mormonism, if this is true. Many view the idea that psychedelics were used to be discounting the spirituality behind Mormonism, or to be cheapening spiritual experiences, but we discuss how that isn't the case.

EntheoMagus is a short film on the road to the goal of a more involved production. It will be shown in Salt Lake City, UTon 4/27/24, 4/28/24, and 4/29/24 and in Portland, OR on 5/11/24. Get your tickets below.



Links

EntheoMagus Website

Alex Criddle's Website



Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check out

Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins:



Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:

Interview with Donald Hoffman

Interview with Bernardo Kastrup

Discussion with Bernardo Kastrup on Entropy



Please rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!



Chapters

00:00 Introduction

00:57 Brandon Crockett

07:01 Alex Criddle

11:44 Cody Noconi

16:28 The Mystical Experience

22:09 Interpreting Spiritual or Mystical Experiences

25:14 Our Mind as a Filter

27:06 Cross Cultural Mystical Experiences

29:23 Taking a Holistic Approach to Understanding Mystical Experiences with Science and Spirituality

35:30 Implications for Mormonism if Entheogens/Psychedelics were used

38:07 Psychedelics and Spirituality, The Good Friday Experiment

42:53 Clark Heinrich's Mystical Experience with Amanita Muscaria

46:41 The Problems with Dismissing Psychedelics as Hallucinations or Shortcuts

49:51 Gabe's Endogenous Mystical Experience

51:53 Can We Trust Mystical/Psychedelic Experiences?

55:19 Consensus Reality and Interpreting Psychedelic Experiences

01:02:22 Recontextualizing and Finding Meaning in Mormonism

01:04:57 Accessing Revelation and Mystical Experiences

01:07:00 The Problem with Prophets and the Shamanic Initiation Crisis

01:10:00 The Importance of Recognizing your Perspective and Bias

01:11:09 How Objective are Psychedelic Experiences?

01:13:28 Rupert Spira and Dreams as a Model for the Intersubjective Nature of Reality

01:19:09 Does it Matter if Joseph Smith used Psychedelics/Entheogens?

01:21:59 Folk Magic, the Occult, and Substances to Alter Consciousness

01:26:11 Is there Evidence of Entheogens in Early Mormonism?

01:30:06 EntheoMagus

Michael Levin joins me to discuss the intersection of computation, biology, and philosophy. We explore different perspectives on reality, the concept of selfhood, and the behavior of cancer cells. We discuss what implications understanding cancer can have on uniting humanity.
Mike discusses the importance of recognizing and valuing different forms of intelligence and the challenges of predicting the goals of collective systems. He explains the concept of collective intelligence and the challenges of uniting humans as well as the ethics of forced collectivism.
We then discuss AI, consciousness, and ethics, highlighting the need for principled frameworks to navigate these complex issues. I discuss concept of portals of consciousness from the perspective of idealism, and the issue of whether consciousness is substrate independent.

Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check out
Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins:
Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:
Interview with Donald Hoffman
Interview with Bernardo Kastrup
Discussion with Bernardo Kastrup on Entropy

Please rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!

Chapters
00:00 Utilizing Multiple Perspectives in Science
02:41 Exploring Perspectives on Reality and Consciousness
04:37 Challenging Assumptions in Science
09:56 AI and Consciousness
18:00 Ethics Informed by Understanding Selfhood
22:44 Cancer as a Distortion of Cells' Selfhood
25:52 Balancing Interests Within Collective Intelligences
33:51 Collective Intelligences and the Implications for Relationships
38:14 AI, Consciousness, and Ethics
52:48 Idealism and Substrate Independent Consciousness

This conversation discusses Mike's time at FAIR as an apologist, and then his faith crisis and departure from Mormonism, as well as his own personal spiritual journey. Mike's interest lies in researching other branches of Mormonism, including fundamentalist groups, and Gnostic groups.



We discuss John W Bryant, who left Mormonism after converting, serving a mission. He then joined the Apostolic United Brethren, but parted ways with them after receiving visions of church leaders, from which he reports to have received the Second Anointing. His group later transformed into a more liberal, feminist group, and started a commune in Nevada. He then reported being ordained in a sexual ordinance by the wife of one of the Three Nephites to the higher light of Christ. Now, they've evolved to a more mythologically minded blend of Eastern spirituality, including yoga, meditation, and artistic creativity during their services.



We also discuss Archie Wood, who started the True Gnostic Church and wrote extensive scripture, including conceptualizing God as mankind's evolution into the future, who has returned back to communicate with us. Archie subsequently left his church, though there is an effort to preserve his works.



Finally, we discuss the Knights of the Crystal Blade, a cult formed by John Coltharp, one of the missionaries Gabe knew on his mission.



Links:

Mike's Presentation on Gnostic Mormonism



Here for the esoteric origins of Mormonism? Check out

Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins:



Here for the science and spirituality? Check out:

Interview with Donald Hoffman

Interview with Bernardo Kastrup

Discussion with Bernardo Kastrup on Entropy



Please rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!



Chapters

00:00 Introduction and Rebranding

06:43 Mike LeCheminant's Background

10:02 FAIR and Apologetics

13:42 Joseph Smith as a Fallen Prophet

18:04 Spirituality After Mormonism

20:53 Redefining God

25:21 Deconstruction and Myth

36:54 Mike's Exploration of other Churches

39:39 Psychedelics in Religion

44:54 John W Bryant and the Gnostic Temple of the Pearl

49:22 Channeling, Automatic Writing, and Scripture

56:38 Gnosticism

01:16:05 Mormonism's Individuation Process

01:22:16 The Motivations of Prophets

01:31:46 Knights of the Crystal Blade

01:39:43 Archie Wood and the True Gnostic Church

01:53:09 Leaving the Apologetic Community

Bernardo joins me to explore the themes of engaging with others, taking the long view, and the nature of knowledge. We discuss the balance between engaging with trolls, responding to skeptics, and collaborating with like-minded individuals. The importance of focusing on the silent audience and the long-term impact of ideas is emphasized.

We also discuss my essay, and book in progress, recontextualizing entropy as a reflection of the bandwidth constraints of consciousness and our subjective experience. We discuss the need to unlearn what we thought we knew and challenge assumptions, as well as the role of perspective in understanding reality. The conversation explores the concept of entropy and the subjective nature of measuring it, as well as the assumptions upon which the current framework of thermodynamics rest, namely an objective physical world separate from observers. The discussion touches on the work of Sabine Hossenfelder and Stephen Wolfram, including his work on computational irreducibility and the Ruliad. The idea of computational irreducibility and the limitations of our perspective in understanding the true nature of the universe are explored.

Finally, we discuss following the purpose life has for us, and the process of being broken by what we think is the path we are meant to be on. Bernardo shares his insights from his own journey, including the liberation that comes from realizing that life is not about the individual self.

My essay on entropy at Essentia’s website: https://www.essentiafoundation.org/entropy-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder/reading/
An unabridged version on my Substack: https://mysticsandmuons.substack.com/p/entropy-is-in-the-eye-of-the-beholder

If you're new to the podcast and interested in Mormonism's esoteric origins, check out Episode 2 or read it in on the Substack for the integrative narrative of Mormon origins:

If you're new and interested in the nature of reality, check out Episode 18 with Donald Hoffman, or Episode 21 with Bernardo Kastrup:

Please rate, share, and get in touch at mysticsandmuons@gmail.com!

Chapters
00:00 Introduction
04:06 Engaging in Dialogue vs Engaging with Trolls
17:55 Finding One's Calling and Taking the Long View
26:28 Recontextualizing Entropy
29:36 Entropy and its Prior Assumptions
33:28 Finding One's Dharma
34:52 Thomas Kuhn and Plato's Cave as a Metaphor for Scientific Revolutions
41:46 Sabine Hossenfelder's Challenge of Entropy as a Physicalist
47:25 Causality
54:45 Myth and it's Utility, Even in Science
01:05:25 Mysticism and Science, The Relationality of the Universe
01:14:22 Stephen Wolfram, Computational Irreducibility, and the Ruliad
01:29:04 Are there fundamental
01:38:24 The Rulial Space of Conscious Experience and Data Management Strategies
01:46:50 Can the Rules of Reality Change?
01:53:28 Interpreting and Integrating Mystical Experiences
02:04:49 Finding Our Role in the Ecosystem of the Universe
02:09:09 Life Breaks You Open
02:12:58 Nihilism and Meaning